Self Employment - A blessing or curse - part II

I posted some of my experiences a couple weeks ago about being self employed with only 2 jobs my whole life and now transitioning to working for someone else.

I interviewed for a local electrical/mechanical contractor to supervise their warehouse. One of the questions was "So... you have been unemployed for 6-7 months". I said I didn't look at is as being unemployed, it took 2-3 months to clean out my shop of equipment and tooling, and when you work 50-60 hours a week for the last 5 years straight it is nice to have some time off for family etc... I didn't get the job even though I was very well qualified. Even had several ideas to improve upon their business. I just figure one of the two other candidates was much more impressive or my employment history was just enough to raise doubts.

Right after that I went to a temp agency to apply for a nighttime warehouse job. I stopped by there a week before and the woman remembered that I was self employed. I filled out all the paper work, but was never asked about any references or phone numbers. When I hand in my paperwork the woman goes over and verifies everything. She wanted a reference and phone number that she could call on. I ask personal reference? After a couple seconds I ask about an employee reference? then finally said business reference? She says yes, a business reference that she could contact. She asked who I had done work for. I told her I made and sold my own product line. That I even have my business name registered as a trademark. She asked about anyone locally. I said there is no one locally, everyone that I sold to lived in PA, MI, or CA. She asked for a customer name. I named my largest customer(60% worth) and the purchasing agent, but didn't have his phone number right off hand. She gave me her business card to call or email the agents phone number.

After leaving from there I just got PO'd. My largest customer was the primary reason why I closed my shop. I felt that my customers just really didn't know enough about me to provide a reference. My main customer is the reason why I closed. I just lost too much money and time with them. Had to tell them to go find someone else as I lost a lot of time on a major project with them. They just get so bent out of shape and huff when someone tells them no. I briefly talked to the next guy who was going to make their parts. Gawd, I felt sorry for him. No telling what kind of crap they fed him when their product line is maturing. I just didn't have enough contact with the rest of my customers. Maybe a few times a year. I simply made a product and they bought it as is. No going back and forth with blueprints, materials, improvements on design etc... I shipped a product and they sent a check in the mail. I can see the woman at the temp agency calling up one of my past customers and saying "This is so-and-so from Jackass temp agency. We are calling in regards to a reference for temp employee Pig Soooeee. Pig Soooeee has applied for a night job making minimum wage. What kind of work did Pig Soooeee do for your $750M per year company." That is not exactly how I want to be remembered.

Well finally got a call from another temp agency. Had a 2nd shift job and to start the next day. So far I worked for three days and then called off due to Christmas. Told to check back on Jan 5th. The job is watching a machine stamp labels on 5 gallon water jug caps by the thousands. Yup, the same water jugs with blue caps for an office cooler. The pay isn't that great, but the job is easy and I have a lot more exemptions to be taken out so that helps.

I just read the thread on background checks by 10 fingers. Whats funny is before this last temp agency called, I already spoke with a buddy and had it setup to use him as an employer reference. I pretty much was not going to mention anything about ever being self employed. I was going to fabricate a story and references that I had worked for my friend machining parts. Seemed like no other choice. Funny that a person who shows up everyday, ambitious and willing to learn, who is honest, no criminal history, never does drugs and only an occasional beer, cant find a job the honest way becomes forced to lie about things. Makes me feel like Tim Robins character in Shawshank redemption. He was straight as an arrow on the outside, but turned into a criminal from being on the inside.

It's too bad you feel the need to lie, even though I see your rationale.

I see it more as you being unprepared for the unexpected.

I think that if you had been prepared to explain and document your business history, including the shut-down period, it would have been more understandable and acceptable to the interviewer. Photos of the product, an explanation of your customer base and your relationships with them, tax records and whatever.

There are so many cons out there, the interviewer just wants to verify your story. That's reasonable isn't it?

If you get caught fabricating your history, it will ruin your chances and just prove to them that you're just another con.

P.S. No matter how valid, I would refrain from making suggestions for improvement on their business during an interview.

I would knock on every shop's door within a 50 mile radius. Even with a slow economy, a lot of shops are still fairly busy.

A good machinist is hard to find these days....

go for it

Well what can I say I’ve also walked that road. I looked at people coming in with my previous job (skip the details) hehehe! What a joke and we were suppose to rely on them to keep you safe. shitheads (people that bull shit there way in and up) were crawling out of every hole to get the jobs. I always wanted to do the rite thing working my self up in life and earning my keep honestly. Hehehehe!! What a joke now I changed my motto to “the only unfair fight is the one you lost”. Remember it because I’ve also been reduced to bullshit and manipulation. From one descent guy to a next (I hope) learn to play the game and play it well. Good luck

I have a little different story.

TWICE in the last ten years I have been approached by larger shops that I supply to come and manage their shop. Both times it was very attractive money with steady hours.

One shop I lasted 1-1/2 years, the other only 13 months.

The first owner was thrilled that he no longer had to deal with the daily grind and he actually had tears in his eyes when I left. Unfortunately my work ethic (which had been formed by years of self employment) caused me to put in way too many hours (on salary). It also sucked that I wasn't controlling my own destiny and was only building one for him. I began to resent my own accomplishments.

The second owner told me to :"run the shop like it was my own". He could never "let go" however, and second guessed my every move. Ironically my decisions were usually better than his but he still couldn't let me breathe. He still calls regularly wanting me to come back but we both know it won't work.

Personally I don't see myself ever managing for anyone else again. It gives me a "caged" feeling. Even thought the income is steadier the situation is also limiting. No matter how hard I work I am locked into the income the other man is willing to provide. On my own harder work is usually rewarded with more income.

I can build my own empire or grave. It is my choice. Both times I nibbled the greener grass it took some time to re-establish my own business. I won't go through that again.

When work gets slow or you get tired of your role as a owner there are things you can change without hanging it up and going to work for someone else.

Attitudes like mine are why some owners are hesitant to hire previously self-employed people.

SCOTTIE

I also would suggest you refrain from making suggestions about improving their business during an interview. Unless you are going to work for a one man outfit they probably have a pretty specific job description. They have an opening because they need some one to perform X task. They want to know if you can perform X task and at the same time they don't want an attitude problem. For the most part they don't want someone coming in telling them what to do, for now they just want you to do X and for things to go smoothly.

Alan

Even if you are interviewing for a very small place, just keep your mouth shut about improvements you can bring to the business. You just walked in. You have NO idea how it operates.

I was interviewing one time for a front office girl. Gave her the general shop tour, went back to the office areas and started interviewing. She was very concerned that we machined aluminum. "Oh, that isn't safe, aluminum gives you alzheimers. You should have a vacuum system..." And on and on in that vein.

First off, there's no evidence that ANY aluminum causes alzheimers. Second, even the cranks on the internet claim that ingestion causes it (cooking in aluminum pans, deodorant, etc. I know where she was going with this kookery.) I'm pretty sure no one is eating, much less digesting 1/2" x 1/2" chips. Third, I didn't see at all what any of that had to do with front office tasks. Extremely irritating.

Needless to say, we hired someone else.

The interviewers indicated they were open to ideas. Any comments I made about improvements were very short. I just added very small snippets hoping to show I was competent enough to do the job and could make improvements when ever needed. The only thing that I took away that was negative is when asked "So... You have been unemployed the last 6-7 months". More emphasis was placed about being unemployed rather than asking "what have you done for the last few months". I would give the exact same answer every time. Spent 2-3 months selling equipment and cleaning up my shop and spent the next 3-4 months on vacation as I have worked at least 60 hrs. per week for 7 years straight.

I agree with RJ. I thought about taking tax documents etc. Every interview I have at least taken part samples to show what I did. For the most part the response is wow, that looks really awesome. Then the next question is I still need a reference which then totally blows my last 7 years of self employment. Person applies for job, call past employer for reference, and then hire. Since I don't fit that profile I seemed to get dismissed altogether.

I have a simple job right now. Barely pays the bills, but I like the hours. I say the hell with trying to get on with a good company. Let them gripe about not being able to find good help. In the meantime I am working to remove myself from being dependent on others for my income.

job contact

I often stop by Texas precision plating to get some of my stuff plated,and as busy as they are there is actually a waiting room there is a constant stream of shop oweners in and out , all there to get there stuff plated. What a great place to find a job,get a contact or meet some one with a lead .Forget the unemploymet office.

MC

I work 3 days a week for a large manufacturer now and the rest of my days at my shop. I remember the interview to get hired as Machine Tool Mechanic:

HR guy "Aside from your 12 years of self-employment, have you ever been reprimanded for attendance problems?"

Me "I worked every day for 12 years straight, I'm never late!"
Translation: (How effing dare you, you coffee cup fondlin pusshead!)

HR Guy "You never stayed home sick?"

Me "I had the keys, how could I"
Translation: (Yo! Assbag! Did you not understand what I just said?)

HR Guy "I see you like to restore old British Cars as a hobby. I have concerns that you might put that ahead of what we hired you for."

Me "Oh, I dream of doing that after I retire"
Translation: (Kiss my ass! I can well do what I want in my free time so hire my ass so I can retire that one day sooner!)

I dumbed down my resume so much to get a job. I still am looking for something different as we will be getting a perm. layoff soon. Now I just put down that I was the shop foreman and the owner closed the business and moved it to another state. I have a friend that will be me on the phone as the owner of my company.

I call it survival tactics.