Handeling heavy tooling

This subject has been kicked about on this board before so i thought perhaps some members might be interested in one solution.

Small shops are always pinched for space and in the Deckel world since the base machines have a wide range of accessories , most of which become too heavy to be easily handled by one man, some solution that is space efficent and flexible would be nice.

Over the past few months i have been helping one of my customers with his home shop. This is a complex venture that among other things installed a full sized Romi M17 (wonder where the customer got the idea for that one) CNC lathe and a new Fadel 3016 VMC. Both these machines were placed in a basement below the owners garage...having to be moved down a flight of stairs and around a corner and into the shop....No small deal in the end.
At any rate, the owner wanted some lifting system to handle tooling , vises and fixtures between his storage and both the machines.
Since this was a basement below a garage the overhead had structural iron and that was a natural to be used for some lifting system.
Some searching on his part turned up the following crane setup:

http://www.motionsavers.com/Spanco/?gclid=CJ-PjJKAhZoCFQwxawodxkvxEQ

Click on "Jib Cranes"
Click on "details"
Click on "Articulating"
Click on "Literature"
Download the "articulating crane PDF".

Now the nice thing about this setup is that it can be supplied as an overhead mount. The design allows for a single point mounting and allows some real reach.

In my home shop the machine tools are housed (seperate room)in a 20'x20' room...I have a 14" glue lam that bridges the center of the space. Hanging the 12' reach crane centered on this beam i can reach fully to every part of my floor (including the corners) while staying up and out of the way.

Now for the engineer types here, i know about the twisting loads that will be imparted when the crane arm is at right angles to the beam....my design will include a truss made from 1 1/2 " tube 10 " apart with diagonal 1" tubes welded in a zig zag truss arrangement. The tubes will be mounted to the crane mounting plates and be anchored to the back wall of the shop..at right angles to the glue lam.

I choose the 250# lift capacity, although i am assured (off the record) that the system will easily handle 300# if needed.
The arm has pass through electrical and i intend to fit a small electric lift at the end.....The entire setup needs about 1.5' of headroom, and in my shop this will be a bit tight but serviceable...
Will post photos when i get everything up and running.....

cheers Ross

I have a quick question here, Ross... What is the ceiling height in your (new) shop? Are you moving the pivot/mounting part of the crane between trusses or joists so that the articulating arm skims just below the other truss/joists? If so, how much headrood does this give you below the arm?

Nice setup...

Alan

Alan:
Bottom of the glue lam is at 9' off the floor....the rest of the machinery room is clear story peaking at about 15' inside.... The twist strut of course will be added from the beam to the wall at the beam's midpoint.
Lighting (T5 florescents) are mounted at 9'6" at the lowest point.
Crane upper arm just clears the Glue Lam. Mounted just 5/8" below lower edge of that beam.....
Makes the lowest part of the crane beam at about 7'4" i think.
Not the greatest height but enough.
When parked the crane arm will be parallel with the Glue Lam, so as to not attract extra eye attention and of course so as not to obstruct the skylights .

Cheers Ross

By shear coincidence I,m building a system like that right now.
Mine is freestanding and mounted on a pedastal that carries the mill (deckel fp2 about 1200 kg)
The iron baseplate that should be on top of the pedastal is standing upright at the right side of the picture.
At this moment it's disassembled for powdercoating. Here is a pic of the testing situation with the Deckel spiral milling attachment (about 100kg)

The motor is rated for 150 kg single hook and 300 kg with the cable doubled and a hook with roller.
The arm with the motor can shift out about 40 cm to reach even a little further.
The arm can fold against the studs in the back of the machine.

A fixed pole would be saver though, because I always have to watch the system to prevent tipping over when the arm is extended to one side with a heavy load attached. Although I did not actually test this. Maybe the weight of the deckel gives enough counterweight to even the heaviest loads. That will probably be the 100 kg of the spiralmilling attachment.

yoyo:
nice work. Does the FP2 sit on top of the rectangular frame that the verticals are attached to?

Nice test proof..the spiral milling attachment. Not sure i would have used that as a test...if it went bad might be costly. Would lean more to sand bags or the like for testing...but guess you were pretty confident as to the engineering.
Thanks for sharing that.
Cheers Ross

removed double posting

Indeed the deckel goes on a iron plate (about 1 " thick) on the rectangular U-beam frame., being raised about 160 mm.
That gives room underneath for a drawer.
Most pre eighties lathes and mills are a little to low for me, so the raising brings the worktable at a more convenient hight.
When the drawer is removed I can pick the whole unit up with a manual forklift, including the Deckel, electrical cabinet and hoistsystem

The very first test was with an 100kg item that was self regenerating in case of collision damage (myself)

More pics to follow when it's ready

Having seen this, I definetely need one also. Could you give an indication of the dimensions of the materials used in the arm?

Yoyo... I think you removed the post that had the photos.

I'm curious about the choice of an electric motor though... In my (short) experience with electrics hoists it seems like they wouldn't be the best choice for a tool used to (dis)mount accessories on a Deckel. They tend to move too quickly. The best analogy is the liftgate truck versus a forklift fork. The latter can be eeeked up/down slowly while the only control on a liftgate is a single switch that rockets the gate up or down.

Although more work is required with a manual chain fall, isn't it a better choice for the application you are trying to serve?

Alan

(on edit) Hmmm, maybe the problem with the pics is something else. I know PM was down yesterday for a while and now other posts that refer to pictures that should be there don't have any... Strange. I'm guessing it is either my browser or PM.

I have a 1/2 ton CM electric lift on the shop crane i use every day to move tooling and accessories on and off my machines fitted to a shop built jib crane.
The requirements are several: first off you have to get the right lift!

16 feet per min is about right IMHO...faster and you have trouble. The nice hoists (read $$$) have two speeds so the slow is pretty slow to help with small movements.

The second key is a good hand control with responsive buttons.
You can make the load move in pretty small increments if the hand pendant is good and you pay attention.
For me in the tooling on and off app i would not now go back to a manual chain hoist given the choice.....
Cheers Ross

Probably the last item would be a sturdy frame. That way there is no bouncing when "inching" via quick contacting of the motor...

Anyhow, thanks for the response, Ross. What you are saying makes sense. Given that you've used both you clearly know about the advantages and disadvantages of each. It is interesting that you say 16fpm though. That works out to be 3.2 inches a second which is a lot faster than I would have thought you would say is idea.

I wonder why they don't make hoists with DC motors (yeah, I'm sure some must exist out there!). That way you could dial in the speed for the button pushes... Seems like it would be an easy enough and useful option.

Alan

I recently bought a two speed DEMAG hoist that I plan on installing in a mini gantry crane
in my shop.

The structure is yet to build, but I've already used it with a simple trolley on a I-beam.

The brake-motor can make the final approach pretty hard to control at first, when you have a 100+ lbs jig-boring head to slide in the dovetail of the mill... Even using the lower speed !

But then, you get used to it and learn how to stop just before the load hits the target, gently tilt the load to insure a first contact, then let go for the final move. It makes a huge difference.

And there's the "cool factor"

Alan you must have read my mind. These are exactly the problems I am worried about.
With the manual chainsystem (I have a 3 ton for loading the machines) I don't like the tedious labour and even less the chains rattling against the side of the machine.
So I found this 79 euro steelcable hoist and would give it a try.
I planned to make an evaluation after I had tested the complete system, but the first tests indeed indicate the problems you mentioned.
The speed for the single line is to high and the start stop is to sudden.
Doubling the line gives better results. Only the hook that was supplied for this purpose does not have a pivot, so I have to modify that.
I already considered to swap the 220v single phase motor for a 3 phase one. It's a pity that the casting that couples it to the winchpart is a special one.
I would have to make a special adapterplate. After that I should be able to hook up a VFD and all start/stop/speed problems should be resolved.

Ross is right about the stiffnes of the frame. It is pretty bouncy but I don't know if this is a big problem.
An evaluation will follow in a few weeks.

Oh, I notice an inconsistency in Ross saying "The nice hoists (read $$$) have two speeds" and T Nguy Binh saying "I recently bought a two speed DEMAG hoist".
I still remember the words "I think you're the very last one on this board no to know me as the cheapstake I am "
How about it T, did you change your view on life or did you win the lottery ?

I think if you run the cable through an aux. pullley at the load, and attach the end of the cable back up at the lift head, you can slow down the travel speed... sort of like a block and tackle. Maybe not two speeds, but one better speed.

Chip.

I think J. King has the same hoist installed as I have. Although he has mounted it on a gantry system. Maybe he can give an opinion on how it is to work with it.

Ummm, I think I win in the cheapskate department! My brother says that I squeak when I walk! (and proud of it!).... But I don't skimp on buying lousy tools that endanger my life... That is definitely true. So I'm not inclined to buy a low-budge, made in China, type hoist (if I ever get the headroom for one).

Yoyo... Still haven't seen your setup. I cannot get pictures. (???) The comment about chains rattling around on the side of the machine is a very good one though. That is a definite downside to a chain fall. In fact, it is something that I completely forgot about (and hate).

Tien... One of the things that has always amazed me is the sheer size of the I-Beams typically used for gantry type hoists. Even something that spans only 20 feet and has a load limit of 500 pounds is *huge*. I once was considering the installation of a basement under my garage. I wanted to put a large hole in the middle of the garage floor to avoid the hassle Ross talked about with his customer (dismantling the machines to get them downstairs). Wouldn't it be cool to have a gantry setup to drop a machine straight down the hole? Yep! But the size of the hoist setup would be INSANE. 1.5 - 2.0 ton is probably the correct capacity to look at... span is roughly 20' or so. For that to work you need a beam that is something like 12 to 14 inches, as I recall. EEK!

--Alan

Well if slow is important, and quality is important, and cheap is important, get a nice chain hoist. I see the good U.S. made ones go cheap at auctions. Mine is a Jet import, so it wouldn't suit Alan's conditions, but I have hoisted 700-800 pounds with no issue, with an I beam that is *lagged* to the 2x12 ceiling joists() so 150-250 pounds is no worry me happy .

-Dave

Héhéhé... You know me so well !

I'm already too old to change... So my saying is buy wisely, or... Be lucky.
And I think lucky I was when I got that near new Demag hiost for approx. 200 euros including shipping from UK !



It has a 80kg (160 lbs) capacity, wich can easily be increased to 125 kg (250 lbs) just by tightening the clutch (a DEMAG tech explained me their hoists are just the same up to 250 kg capacity and the sole reason they are limited is to protect the equipment they are bolted on).

The hoist has two speeds and a pretty convenient hand control. Not too big, so you can still handle the load *and* the control pendant while pushing the buttons.



Of course, 125/150 kg is a pretty limited capacity, but the ceiling in my shop is sooooo low that I wouldn't allow the lifting of a machine, so I didn't need more.

My goal is to have something that won't take floor space and will be convenient and *fun* to use, for the loads light enough that you could be tempted to handle them on your own... but just heavy enough to destroy your back !

For the whole machines, I have a small pallet jack and and a lifting table in front of the shop door. It has a 3 tons capacity and has prooved a very efficient tool : No space in the shop or separate building required, no tires to puncture, no battery to charge, in fact : maintenance free !
You will barely notice it when not in use, and it makes a wonderful outdoor bench when weather allows. Definitely a "must have" !

T. , you got me wondering...

Is the TERRE sign, for the electrical ground connection, or just to point out where the floor is??

Nice setup, with the hoist and hydraulic table..
I had a simililar 1 ton table, but gave up on the hole in the floor..
Sold it a bit later.. Takes up to much space, when not installed in the floor.

Best regards
Søren

Tien... I've got to get to France sometime... You have to coolest shop environment(s) I think I have ever seen!

Dave... I actually purchased a nice (ancient) Yale chain hoist and, separately, a trolley. Unfortunately I've never been able to figure out how I can put them in my current garage/shop. As you may recall, my headroom is only about 7.5 feet (MAX) and I also have a wing spar for my airplane hanging up there interfering with all sorts of stuff... I think I need a new shop.

Alan

PS: Nice elephant keeping watch over your bench, Tien