Yet another Maho seller on crack...

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

I can't get $20K for my ex IBM tool room, pristine, low hour, universal table, tool changer, fully coolant guarded, rotating head 1991 Maho MH800C* .... and this dreamer thinks he's going to get $25K for this early 80's antique ? :dopeslap:

MAHO MH-1000 C/K UNIVERSAL CNC HVY-DUTY MILLING MACHINE - eBay (item 250605871095 end time Apr-27-10 16:09:48 PDT)

It is kinda cool looking, but good lord...it's an ex tracer machine with one of the earliest Phillips controls I've ever seen. I suppose there is a miniscule possibly someone might be drawn to it by the multi head accessory for a specific job they have. But other than that I figure it's worth $4K tops.

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* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200445835154&ssPageName=STRK:MEUSX:IT

CBlair · Mar 29, 2010

Rohner always has pretty high prices on the stuff they sell. But usually they have really nice looking stuff so a little more may be expected. However, unless you really needed that exact machine I would think it will be hard to fork over that much money for it.

Perhaps it would do better in Europe?

Didnt someone post a video of that machine last year?

Charles

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

CBlair said:
Rohner always has pretty high prices on the stuff they sell. But usually they have really nice looking stuff so a little more may be expected.

Usually I have even nicer looking stuff... and still can't sell some of it for relatively low prices for what it is. If I had that same exact Maho I suspect I could advertise it until the sun burned out for $5,000 and still not sell it.

Rohner is the same outfit that had a 1981 Deckel FP3A, where it was not running and they still wanted something over $10K for it. It did have a universal table on it, which might be worth $4K or so by itself but the machine is worth pretty much zero, as even most of it's parts...both mechanical and electronic...are unique to the older FP3A machines...so even the parts aren't worth much of anything.

Kees · Mar 29, 2010

D.: your Maho is on the wrong site of the water for me....
But : how does the spindle-plug look like?Can you post a picture of that?

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

Kees said:
But : how does the spindle-plug look like?Can you post a picture of that?

Since that would require connecting the machine to power just to remove the plug for a photo, can you tell me how critical it is for you to know first ?

My memory is that it has spring loaded balls or pins (ground to a point) that hold it in place on the spindle...when the tool changer grippers grab it, the spring loaded pins are depressed somehow, which releases it from the spindle. I can't remember if the spindle has something unique inside (holes or groove) to accept those pins or not...but I presume it does...probably a groove.

Ox · Mar 29, 2010

Per the original machine:

That machine looks like it is in beautifull/original condition.

Unfortunately, the reality is that CNC machines need to be worn out by the time the support is gone for the controls. :bawling:

Might be good retro bait for someone with more time than $.

One Q I have is:

What is the unpainted sqr block setting on a 45* angle just to the rt side of where the vert goes?

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

adh2000 · Mar 29, 2010

You can say what you want about Rohner but he does manage to turn his inventory over somehow. I've visited there a few times, always different stuff. I've sold a machine to him and also bought one, they were knowledgable and friendly.

Alan

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

adh2000 said:
You can say what you want about Rohner but he does manage to turn his inventory over somehow. I've visited there a few times, always different stuff. I've sold a machine to him and also bought one, they were knowledgable and friendly.

Yes, another of life's great mysteries...like that company out west that sells machines from "government reserve" slathered in new gray porch paint for outrageous prices.

All I can figure is there is something magical about advertising in paper trade magazines for years and having a warehouse/showroom in a major city near manufacturing.

Re the 'knowledgable' bit...I thought that too until I questioned them about the FP3A and found them surprisingly UN-knowledgable about that one anyway.

If you keep up with them, PLEASE let me know who eventually buys that Maho MH1000 and what they paid for it as I'm quite curious who exactly would buy something like that for that sort of price.

======================

Btw, I don't mean to give the impression in this thread that I'm having trouble selling machines...in fact the past month has been one of my best ever ! (just paid cash for a new car too ) But it's mostly 1995 and newer Japanese CNC machines that I'm selling that bring in the big bucks (well ok, there was that 2001 Haas HMC and 2005 Kasto automatic cold saw I just sold as well )... the 1991 and older Euro CNC stuff is just surprisingly hard to sell for anywhere near what it ought to bring.

Speaking of which, does Pop's still have that FP4NC with flip head for sale for only $4,000 ? (it's still on Craigs list) What would Rohner want for that... $20,000 ?

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

Ox said:
One Q I have is:

What is the unpainted sqr block setting on a 45* angle just to the rt side of where the vert goes?

That's where the tracer probe mounted.

Kees · Mar 29, 2010

Milacron said:
Since that would require connecting the machine to power just to remove the plug for a photo, can you tell me how critical it is for you to know first ?

Well I've bought a '95 600C, I am working on it to get it running.The machine has run a lot, so it's defently not as pristine as yours.But it's missing that spindle-plug, so once it's running I need to protect one of the 2 spindle's.And I am afraid buying it at DMG will be quite expensive.So I want to make it myself.But first the machine has to run, it's stuck now on tool change.

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

Kees said:
Well I've bought a '95 600C, I am working on it to get it running.The machine has run a lot, so it's defently not as pristine as yours.But it's missing that spindle-plug, so once it's running I need to protect one of the 2 spindle's.And I am afraid buying it at DMG will be quite expensive.So I want to make it myself.But first the machine has to run, it's stuck now on tool change.

OK. It might be possible for me to remove it with a screwdriver by pressing on the pin release..we'll see.

There must be some complexity to the pin mechanism since it is the opposite of what would be "easy" to do...i.e. if the tool gripper pushed the pins "in" that would be easy, but what it actually does is push the pins "out" ! (or trips something that allows springs to push the pins out.

pops · Mar 29, 2010

Milicron, yes I do still have that machine. I don't get it either it's a nice machine that works great. DD was here a few months ago to check it out for a customer from British Columbia who seemed interested but he backed out because he said it would cost too much to upgrade the control and the shipping expences. at the time I was asking $5,000 but I dropped to $4,000 to help him with the shipping. that still didn't help. I've also had offers of wanting to buy parts of the machine but I don't want to break up a good running machine. I would like the extra room in my garage but It will have to wait.

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

pops said:
I've also had offers of wanting to buy parts of the machine but I don't want to break up a good running machine. I would like the extra room in my garage but It will have to wait.

Yeah, please don't break it up. Sheesh, I'm tempted to buy it myself and yet I need it like I need a five inch hole thru my head...just that I've never owned a flip head model and curious what that is like

OK, you slackards, the economy is improving and it's not often you find a CNC Deckel being sold by the guy who bought it brand new...somebody buy Pop's Deckel before I have to come slap you upside the head ! :stirthepot:

(and yet if Rohner had it, he probably would get $10K for it... I swear people are nuts sometimes... )

Colt45 · Mar 29, 2010

I spoke with one of the Rohners (Chris?) some time ago about the FP3A and found him to be very knowledgable and friendly.

About a week ago I had a conversation with the owner of a company out west that often sells machines that come out of government storage. Evidently their customers don't think their prices are outrageous, the company is having a decent year in sales. FWIW he told me they have sold most of the little shapers (at their asking price).

One thing I have noticed about both of those companies is they are very good about answering phone calls/emails and responsive to questions about what they sell...

Milacron · Mar 29, 2010

Colt45 said:
I spoke with one of the Rohners (Chris?) some time ago about the FP3A and found him to be very knowledgable and friendly.

Then I can only assume your lack of knowledge on the older FP3A's makes it seem that they are knowledgable about such and you are therefore subject to falling for BS. I have actually owned, repaired and sold two 1981 FP3A's in the past (back before I knew better than to buy them in the first place), so know a bit more about them than most.

About a week ago I had a conversation with the owner of a company out west that often sells machines that come out of government storage. Evidently their customers don't think their prices are outrageous, the company is having a decent year in sales. FWIW he told me they have sold most of the little shapers (at their asking price).

While I can believe they had a decent year, I find it unfathomable they have sold "most of the little shapers at their asking price". Frankly I think he was lying to you on that one. Are you so naive you believe everything that comes from a salesman's mouth ?

One thing I have noticed about both of those companies is they are very good about answering phone calls/emails and responsive to questions about what they sell...

So am I, and so are many dealers that sell machines at more reasonable prices.

Colt45 · Mar 29, 2010

D-

Your assumption is incorrect and I'm not naive.

One need'nt be an expert on FP3As (though I do own, use, and maintain 2 FP4NCs and am interested in Deckels in general) to have an intelligent conversation about them or to formulate an opinion that Mr Rohner was knowlegable and friendly.

Just because *you*, sir, can not "fathom" or do something, doesnt mean it's not true or that it can't be done. :nutter:

Dave Cross · Mar 29, 2010

pops said:
Milicron, yes I do still have that machine. I don't get it either it's a nice machine that works great. DD was here a few months ago to check it out for a customer from British Columbia who seemed interested but he backed out because he said it would cost too much to upgrade the control and the shipping expences. at the time I was asking $5,000 but I dropped to $4,000 to help him with the shipping. that still didn't help. I've also had offers of wanting to buy parts of the machine but I don't want to break up a good running machine. I would like the extra room in my garage but It will have to wait.

What are the travels on this machine? Why did that guy want to upgrade the control, are they not reliable?

Martin P · Mar 30, 2010

Someone should really buy the flip head FP4NC at that price. It is a very desirable machine, having the high speed head and all the accessory connections (dropped on later machines).
I see 3 reason why no-one has bit yet:
1. The Siemens 3M is a good control but unpopular.
2. originally the machine was advertised as having a noisy head, which is VERY expensive to fix if it needs new gears. May have been false alarm, since its no longer mentioned in ad.
3. The seller sold all the interesting documentation separately from the machine. I hope he kept the essential documentation for the machine, but all the sales lit and stuff would have been interesting to go with it.

Oh and 4th I heard that the seller is lets say 'challenging' to deal with (may be one isolated opinion from someone who was interested in the machine).
But in any case, at $4k someone should really take it. I'd pay the majority of the price just for the head (if it is OK), but its too far away.

Milacron · Mar 30, 2010

Martin P said:
3. The seller sold all the interesting documentation separately from the machine. I hope he kept the essential documentation for the machine, but all the sales lit and stuff would have been interesting to go with it.

Although your no. 1 and 2 make sense, no. 3 would make sense only if it was you who wanted to buy the machine. I seriously doubt anyone else would care, as long as the essential manuals were with the machine.

I was the one that bought the Deckel literature pile from Pops but it was my impression all of the 3M items were duplicates. If not, I'll be glad to sell whatever I have in that regard to whomever buys the machine for a cheap price.

FWIW, I found Pop's a pleasure to deal with

Milacron · Mar 30, 2010

Dave Cross said:
Why did that guy want to upgrade the control, are they not reliable?

The control is reliable but most newbies have fantasies about retrofitting Deckels with new controls even if the existing control is fine. The allure of brand new electronics and "conversational programming" ( :Yawn:

) is hard to resist... until they more seriously look into what is actually involved and realize retrofitting a Deckel is thirty times more involved that retrofitting a Bridgeport type mill.

Yet another Maho seller on crack...

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