Most quiet running blade for tablesaw ?

In this case general purpose 350mm OD, aprox 3.5mm kerf, 72 teeth, 1 inch arbor hole. I had a Freud that size (except for arbor hole) on the Martin and it was noticably quietier, but now can't remember the exact model or where I bought it. Wouldn't have to be Freud, would consider other makes.

Also, any clue why the Freud P414 is $145 and the LU86R014 is $62 ? Both are same size, same number of teeth. P414 is .126" kerf and LU is .106" kerf. Why such a dramatic price difference ? Seems like the thinner kerf LU blade might rotate quieter but you tell me.

P414 is a "Fusion model"...but WTF does that mean really...made in nuclear reactor facility ?? Oh wait, that baby is not only fusion...it is premier fusion ! Something about more dense carbide I guess.

Having not had need to buy blades of late, I can't speak to which of the new breed is quietest. My thin-kerf Freud and Forrest table saw ATB finish blades (several models) are quieter than the thick kerf finish and rough blades.

I use Freud and Marathon thin-kerf blades on my Skill WD framing saws. Several years back, a friend asked me to try a thin kerf framing blade he'd just purchased at 4 times the cost, a Tenryu of some model, and it was far superior. The cut was better, it was much quieter, and best of all it didn't fling chips towards my eyes while cutting, something I then realized I'd become used to... I've yet to investigate further, but will once my stock of blades run out. Tenryu's PR department claims their products are known as "The Quiet Blades". That MAY be true, if their table saw blades live up to what I experienced with the Skil saw blade..

A blade I've had interest in since it arrived on the scene is the Total Saw Solutions, "Micro-Kerf", which "cuts thin as a dime. Pricey, but for a particular use I have it may quickly save enough in reduced sawdust to pay off handily. The jury is still out on that...


I looked for more information on the blades, such as arbor and blade diameter sizes, and failing to fins that at the website, wrote to the company. President, Don Angelo replied:

"I understand your frustration!
We do have other sizes available but not on our website as of yet.
I have sizes in the 30mm in the 10" and 12" for cutting solid wood or
Melamine.
What are you looking for?
I will also need your shipping address if you are out of the U.S. so as to
give you a buy now through PayPal email.
Kind regards,

Don Angelo - President
Total Saw Solutions Inc.
www.totalsawsolutions.com"

Ray Behner recommended Tru-Cut Saw, in Brunswick, OH as doing good work in the "Saw blade Sharp(en)ing" thread, so I checked them out. Tru-Cut saw lists only circular saw blades for metal cutting, but they might be interesting to speak with regarding wood cutting, as they produce blades as thin as 1mm (~1/25"), and they'll design blades to your specs.


Concerning pricing discrepancies between the Freud P414 and LU86R014, the 414 is thick-kerf, the LU86 thin kerf. The 414 has a double side grind, which is lacking in the LU86. The thin-kerf version of the "nuclear processed", Premier Fusion is the 10", P410T (5/8" arbor), which costs about the same as the LU86 14" thin kerf.

Once your search leads you to the quietest blades, please do let the rest of us in on it...

Be well,

Lance

I bought one of the Micro-Kerf blades and was not happy with it. Mine did not give a very smooth cut. For the money, I should have sent it back, but I was in the middle of a project and forgot about it until now.

I use FS tool blades on my Altendorfs. Sound is not an issue because the extractor makes more noise, and I really care most about the cut quality. I do not use scoring, waste of time.

I have Tenru, Ghudo, Onsrud, and Felder Silent Power.
The Felders are the quietest the Ghudo's the noisiest
Unfortunately Felder blades don't come very sharp, but once they get sharpened they are superb.

I ordered the Freud with the .106" kerf and it was quiet all right....but a mistake. Unless you move the material very slowly the blade goes nuts and starts flopping around like a wet noodle. Well ok, not that bad but enough side to side movement that once it gets in that mode, it's nearly impossible to continue a cut unless you stop and let it calm down. On thicker cross cuts, like 3", even moving it slow doesn't help much. This on a Casadei slider saw with pretty large flange holding the blade very secure. Apparently .106" just doesn't work on a 350mm saw. Either that or those laser cut patterns that are supposed to quiet the blade should not be there. Thoughts ?

I've got Leuco and FS tools blades for my saws, plus some "good" ones off eBay (never registered brands, they were just inexpensive triple chips i bought more or less for the heck of it.) The Leuco and FS are perfectly good blades but even the plywood/crosscut saw (maybe 80T. ATB grind) does not do as good a job as I would really like except when it has been freshly sharpened. "Many" years ago when I only had a 12" contractors saw, I found that I really did not like Freud products, and most others were wasted on the saw, but I tried a few different brands and tooth styles.

In recent years, when I want a smooth cut in ply or cross cut solid, I just load on a cheap thin rim bright yellow painted blade from Lowes*. Will have to check the brand, but honestly, they cut better, smoother and last longer than the "good" ones I've bought over the years, and are more or less disposable.

For ripping, I never count on a sawn edge for any kind of finish or glue joint. Even if the saw blade could do it, I think the effort would be worse than just ripping as fast as possible, and running the edge through the jointer, shaper, planer or lumber jointer. (or for small fussy stuff, giving it a couple shots with the Palmer & Storkes or a Satanly hand plane )

*Yeah, so far I've only found the 12" size, so kind of dinky looking on a 14/16" saw, but they actually work fine on the direct drive RD Eaglesfield and the SCMI roller top. The SCM has 4 speed options, so I could change the belt position if it bothered me, but it doesn't. For plywood, there's no need for more height. When I need to cross cut something 6" thick, I just put on a thick regular 16" blade and live with the slightly less smooth cut and more effort to push.

It should be possible to pay money and get a good blade, but I have not found it to work that well in real life, for whatever reason. For conventional thickness blades I would still happily buy Leuco, if they were easier to source (may be they are now, again but for a while in the 90's they made it too hard to be worth the effort.) FS tool is perfectly good, and they were a better price than most when I was shopping.

smt

I've used thin kerf blades with success on table saws, but only 10", only on rips or square crosscuts..., never on miters, where I find they tend to wander, and always with a zero clearance insert cut with the thin kerf blade.

The best closeup of a Casadei slider that I could find tonight was on an AU machinery sales site. It would seem at first glance that fitting a zero clearance insert in the saw would present a greater challenge that one faces when using a contractor type saw, but if you are able to fit the insert, it should help stabilize the blade, assuming it's is very sharp and not in any way warped.

Wish I could be a greater assistance....

Unless there is something flat out defective with this blade it's hard imagine a circumstance where it would be desirable to use.....which makes me wonder what the heck was Freud thinking ??

BYBBB - "Bright Yellow Big Box Blade" on 16" RD Eaglesfield saw, mitering acres of parts for parquet flooring. The tolerances on these pieces were insane. The parquets, built in the shop, had to also be adhered to concrete pavers (standard removable office subfloor, usually set on standards under carpet to leave space under the floor for wiring, plumbing, pneumatics, etc). The government architect got the bright idea that a hardwood floor could be made removable "everywhere" if done on the same system. So the 2' x2' tiles had a total tolerance of around 1/64". I made steel frames with hard plastic liners to press the parquets in, in stacks. These were then sent along with registration shims to the job, for assembling the parquets to the concrete tiles.

But I digress. Point being, these pieces needed to be more than "normally" consistent and accurate. The BYBBB accomplished that over a few thousand pieces of hard stuff like Ipe and Wenge (plus birch and cherry) and is still going strong.





There are 2 small holes in the table insert, beside the BYBBB. These are plumbed to an airhose underneath to blow the off cut & scrap out of the way. Foot pedal on/off.



smt

Stephen, the investment in setup time on that job must have been extensive...
And I like the way you do work. (the air ejection system) :-)
Joe

stephen thomas said:

BYBBB on 16" RD Eaglesfield saw

Click to expand...

Owning the collection of woodworking machinery catalogs of the L. Power estate back to the 1880's I thought I had literature on every woodworking machine ever made in this country. But "RD Eaglesfield" stumps me.... looks a little like a Wallace on steriods....where was it made ?

Mil-

I'd love to have more info on it. There is some on the OWWM vintage site. RD Eaglesfield pioneered direct motor drive, and they got to be a fair sized enterprise in Indianapolis. Seems to have started in the early/mid teens, and lasted *maybe* 'til the depression. Before this model saw, you had to use tilt tops, because the bearings and drives were not up to the task of tilty arbors except for a few extreme work-arounds with twisted belts and a big roller on the floor at the off feed end. RDE solved that problem, though many others including Oliver were starting down the same road. Basically, that machine was the very first production rise & fall tilt arbor table saw. I've seen 2 others in online auctions over the years. Mine came out of a sash and door plant in Buffalo I was told by the PO, and he said there was also another at that plant.

RD got involved with Tony Vonnegutt, and that is where the still famous Vonnegutt line of "high speed" direct drive moulders started. RDE is little known today, but started a big revolution, no pun intended.

I traced down some leads many years ago, and came up with an RD Eaglesfield attorney in Indianapolis. He never answered my entreaties for info, probably either was an outcast from the family, or thought I wanted to sue him over a machine made before WW1, lol!

PDF from Vintagemachinery.org
Looking at this brochure, they claim patents from 1909.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/277/2129.pdf

smt

stephen thomas said:

PDF from Vintagemachinery.org
Looking at this brochure, they claim patents from 1909.

http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/277/2129.pdf

Click to expand...

Interesting.... brochure page design is almost the same as "Famous" from Sidney Machine Tool Co. ...but perhaps they just used the same graphic artists. Ever owned a "Famous" machine ? Seems like I had a single end tenoner by them.

How about "Hall & Brown" of St. Louis ? I have multiple copies of H&B "Technical School Machiniery" catalogs (vintage 1928 I think), which are really fancy, with raised gold embossed covers, perfect condition...like they just came from the printer yesterday. Looks like some really nice industrial iron...and yet I don't recall ever seeing the first H&B machine in the flesh in my life.

My first planer was an 18" Famous. Direct drive with a coupler, a couple of big wide leather belts to power the feed rolls from the spindle. I loved it when I got it, but didn't miss it at all years later when I up graded to a SCM 20" w/ grinder.

....brochure page design is almost the same as "Famous" from Sidney Machine Tool Co. ...but perhaps they just used the same graphic artists. Ever owned a "Famous" machine ? Seems like I had a single end tenoner by them.

How about "Hall & Brown" of St. Louis ? I have multiple copies of H&B "Technical School Machiniery" catalogs (vintage 1928 I think), which are really fancy, with raised gold embossed covers, perfect condition...like they just came from the printer yesterday. Looks like some really nice industrial iron...and yet I don't recall ever seeing the first H&B machine in the flesh in my life.

Click to expand...

Interesting about the brochure. Makes a person wonder if there was a connection or "evolution" with RDE.
Per other Q's, I too have "heard" of all of them, never saw actual (non-online) literature. May have seen very old examples of either mfgr, but nothing that sticks in the memory.

After further reading of old brochures at vintage machinery, it appears that Famous was an early adopter of ball bearings and advertised them as an option in 1916. But at that date, all the variety saws ("table saws") in the catalog were flat belt drive (lineshaft) & still either fixed 90° bench/rip saws, or they had tilting tops. I am pretty sure from an old article in Wood & Wood Products, that RDE had ball bearings, tilting arbors, and direct motor drive a few years before that. Also, the diamond in the Famous advertising is evocative, but the rest of the script and layout does not really strike me as similar, other than in a general 19-teen style.

smt

Milacron said:

. Wouldn't have to be Freud, would consider other makes.

Click to expand...

Not a big fan of Freud myself. Try a Matsushita blade. Not only the quietest blade I've used but stays sharp longer.

David

Milacron said:

I ordered the Freud with the .106" kerf and it was quiet all right....but a mistake. Unless you move the material very slowly the blade goes nuts and starts flopping around like a wet noodle. Well ok, not that bad but enough side to side movement that once it gets in that mode, it's nearly impossible to continue a cut unless you stop and let it calm down. On thicker cross cuts, like 3", even moving it slow doesn't help much. This on a Casadei slider saw with pretty large flange holding the blade very secure. Apparently .106" just doesn't work on a 350mm saw. Either that or those laser cut patterns that are supposed to quiet the blade should not be there. Thoughts ?

Click to expand...

Don, what diameter is the flange? I have Forrest saw blade stabilizers in 4,5 and 6 inch diameters, and if I run a thin blade, I use the largest stabilizer that gives me the depth of cut I need. I also have a Freud saw blade stabilizer, 4" I think, and the difference is that the Forrest blade
stabilizers are flat, while the Freud is just slightly concave. I think the Freud gives better results, because it tensions the blade. I'm careful not to tighten down the arbor nut too much though.

-Dave