Hertz
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Location
- Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
Anyone have one? If so how are they? How do you like them?
3D Printing: Make anything you want - YouTube
3D Printing: Make anything you want - YouTube
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3D Printing
- Thread starter Hertz
- Start date
- Replies 11
- Views 4,350
implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Hi Hertz:
Yeah, I've got one.
Mine is a Stratesys Uprint Plus.
It is one of those technologies that's gotten a lot of really breathless press, most of which is utter bullshit.
What no one talks about in these cheerily positive puff pieces of "journalism" is that you can't just print anything and have it function just as well as state of the art parts using other processes.
Yes you can make facsimiles of all kinds of parts without much skill or effort and they can have shapes that are difficult to make any other way, and they can look cool and they can make people swoon about how we're all going to be able to just yell into the Star Trek replicator and out pops Deanna Troi, wet and willing and on and on.
It's all a load.
Here's what it's actually useful for:
Low quantity, low tolerance but goofy hard-to-hold shapes that fall within defined size limits (minimum feature size around 0.025", maximum feature size constrained by the build envelope; a few meters perhaps).
Complicated hollow things
Artwork (if you're into that kind of art)
Some kinds of prototype parts, especially for functions like fit checking, ergonomics checking.
They're not good for accurate things, they're not good for strong things, they're not good for things that need to be made from materials not available to the process.
I use my 3D printer mostly for prototypes for freaky sex toy parts that I mill from titanium and stainless for a customer of mine back east who runs a high end sex shop and does a lot of custom pieces.
It's perfect for that; I can make sure what I've modeled in Solidworks is actually going to fit before I break out a thousand dollar slab of titanium and start chopping.
I also use it for prototypes of commodity items I've designed that will be injection molded and we want a form and function test before we commit to cutting steel.
I've made a few parts that are finished parts, things like a backup battery holder for my CNC lathe that has no real strength requirement.
It's dirt simple to use; an STL file conversion, downloaded to the printer and push the big green button; 6 hours later Voila, there it is.
I've also outsourced a few Direct Metal Laser Sintered parts; low tolerance complex shaped ones that were a decent fit for the technology, and they were OK but nothing stunning
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
Yeah, I've got one.
Mine is a Stratesys Uprint Plus.
It is one of those technologies that's gotten a lot of really breathless press, most of which is utter bullshit.
What no one talks about in these cheerily positive puff pieces of "journalism" is that you can't just print anything and have it function just as well as state of the art parts using other processes.
Yes you can make facsimiles of all kinds of parts without much skill or effort and they can have shapes that are difficult to make any other way, and they can look cool and they can make people swoon about how we're all going to be able to just yell into the Star Trek replicator and out pops Deanna Troi, wet and willing and on and on.
It's all a load.
Here's what it's actually useful for:
Low quantity, low tolerance but goofy hard-to-hold shapes that fall within defined size limits (minimum feature size around 0.025", maximum feature size constrained by the build envelope; a few meters perhaps).
Complicated hollow things
Artwork (if you're into that kind of art)
Some kinds of prototype parts, especially for functions like fit checking, ergonomics checking.
They're not good for accurate things, they're not good for strong things, they're not good for things that need to be made from materials not available to the process.
I use my 3D printer mostly for prototypes for freaky sex toy parts that I mill from titanium and stainless for a customer of mine back east who runs a high end sex shop and does a lot of custom pieces.
It's perfect for that; I can make sure what I've modeled in Solidworks is actually going to fit before I break out a thousand dollar slab of titanium and start chopping.
I also use it for prototypes of commodity items I've designed that will be injection molded and we want a form and function test before we commit to cutting steel.
I've made a few parts that are finished parts, things like a backup battery holder for my CNC lathe that has no real strength requirement.
It's dirt simple to use; an STL file conversion, downloaded to the printer and push the big green button; 6 hours later Voila, there it is.
I've also outsourced a few Direct Metal Laser Sintered parts; low tolerance complex shaped ones that were a decent fit for the technology, and they were OK but nothing stunning
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
What made me laugh was a friend sent me a artical written by a tech journalist that had info about printing your own space ship and how we would all be able to go into space using one we print our selves in the next decade or so. I replied it might be a few decades before anyone is printing any kinda materials even remotely near capable of that let alone being capable of major rocket engine parts.
Hertz
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Location
- Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
Hmmm.. Interesting. Thanks for the input implmex. I kind of figured it couldn't hold to a strong part. What is your take on the organs approach? I mean the guy was making an ear and a kidney. Is that something we can look forward to?
I built a Ordbot Hadron printer. I like it. I have seen good prints from a makerbot 2 at work as well.
Ord Bot Printed Owl on Lego - YouTube
Ord Bot Printed Owl on Lego - YouTube
implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Hi Hertz:
The printing of biological scaffolds is one of the strengths of 3D printing.
It's an excellent application; low tolerance, complex freeform shape, fairly fragile and hard to manipulate or fabricate any other way.
From the scaffold to the viable implantable organ is still a fair journey; however lots of very smart people are working on it and making startling progress.
The primary biological challenge is to incentivize the implanted pluripotential cells to both differentiate into the proper tissues and to prompt them to organize in a way that can be useful as an organ, and finally to persuade them to stay that way and do their job over the long term.
That's an awful lot of biology we really don't know how to do yet.
Some of the scaffolds shown were more in the promotional category than otherwise; the finger for example was one I'm pretty sceptical of.
Turning what I saw there into a viable finger complete with muscle attachments, a properly distributed neurovascular supply, the ability to respond to use or other stressors; all that stuff is much harder even than the kidney problem and likely still well into the future.
The contribution of 3D printing to that will be crucial but relatively minor.
So my take is that was a piece of propaganda, but I'm certainly not up on the state of the art, so don't quote me on that.
Stuff like that is good for grant applications...it helps paint the dream in more glorious colours, and that's necessary too, so I can see why it was put there but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy showcasing it was wincing a bit inside and hoping his colleagues wouldn't see it.
So yes, it's not a technology to dismiss by any means, it's just not the ubiquitous panacea the uncritical boosters would have us believe.
Don't abandon your chipmaking machinery quite yet...it's still going to be useful for a very very long time.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
The printing of biological scaffolds is one of the strengths of 3D printing.
It's an excellent application; low tolerance, complex freeform shape, fairly fragile and hard to manipulate or fabricate any other way.
From the scaffold to the viable implantable organ is still a fair journey; however lots of very smart people are working on it and making startling progress.
The primary biological challenge is to incentivize the implanted pluripotential cells to both differentiate into the proper tissues and to prompt them to organize in a way that can be useful as an organ, and finally to persuade them to stay that way and do their job over the long term.
That's an awful lot of biology we really don't know how to do yet.
Some of the scaffolds shown were more in the promotional category than otherwise; the finger for example was one I'm pretty sceptical of.
Turning what I saw there into a viable finger complete with muscle attachments, a properly distributed neurovascular supply, the ability to respond to use or other stressors; all that stuff is much harder even than the kidney problem and likely still well into the future.
The contribution of 3D printing to that will be crucial but relatively minor.
So my take is that was a piece of propaganda, but I'm certainly not up on the state of the art, so don't quote me on that.
Stuff like that is good for grant applications...it helps paint the dream in more glorious colours, and that's necessary too, so I can see why it was put there but I wouldn't be surprised if the guy showcasing it was wincing a bit inside and hoping his colleagues wouldn't see it.
So yes, it's not a technology to dismiss by any means, it's just not the ubiquitous panacea the uncritical boosters would have us believe.
Don't abandon your chipmaking machinery quite yet...it's still going to be useful for a very very long time.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
well ....im going to resist Marcus...but there's a thousand good laughs in that one
DONT poke the bear
..implmex
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Location
- Vancouver BC Canada
Yep, there certainly is.
Don't hold back...it's not good for you to bottle it up.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
Don't hold back...it's not good for you to bottle it up.
Cheers
Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining
rcoope
Stainless
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2010
- Location
- Vancouver Canada
We just wrote a grant application for one which involved a whole bunch of clinicians, medical technology development people and medical physicists. Most of the proposed applications involve turning CT or MRI images of actual patient physiology into printable models. My neurosurgery and patholgist friends in particular want to be able to make actual models of cancer tumour vasculature (blood vessels) and make it so Residents can plan and perform surgeries on the models. This plays to 3D printing's strengths of being good at highly organic shapes (OK, actual organic shapes here) and where you need a model of the real thing not the real thing itself. The senior surgeons are like experienced designers in that they can look at 2D X-rays or a 3D model on computer and have a great feel for how the real thing will be where as the residents have to learn this, so like junior designers, the 3D printer will let them hold the thing in their hands and start to understand the relationship between images and the real world.
A big issue for me is that the real problem isn't getting a part made, it's getting the CAD done, or getting the CT or MRI information into a form which can me modified in a CAD program, and while there are open source tools to do some of this, the best way seems to be to use something like Geomagic Design and then you'll need to have a resident (or here Resident) expert to do this image to model work to make usable stuff. This is a huge pet peeve of mine with the coverage of 3D printing where everyone misses the point that the true revolution is as much or more in our design tools as it is in the machines that make things and in the case of 3D printing, 90% of the mental effort is on the CAD side.
We have a really fine machine shop, and we have Markus over the bridge so I've never felt much need for one for my automation or medical device work, but there is the odd problem like for example a special bezel one of my guys wants to design to cover a hole in sheet metal where some wires need to come out and bend around the outside of a box. Tricky shapes, but non structural stuff in other words. I love the idea of having one to make weird air ducts for small fans.
As a final though, we are looking at some like the uPrint or Projet1000 which are remarkably good, though not as good as the Objet. All are way better than the Makerbot class which, while good and usable for many things, aren't really professional machines.
As an addendum to the final thought, I agree with Markus that the titanium scaffold implant thing holds a lot of promise and in fact various 3D printed bits are already in use in bone surgery, but actual 3D printing of biological tissue may be a lot further off. At any rate, it has almost nothing to do with 3D printing of plastic or metal any more than your kitchen blender has in common with other rotary cutting tools like a milling machine.
Oh, and one last thing, further to Marcus' point, printing slows with the cube of the part length, so it's more compelling for parts with little overall material, whether they're small or thin walled.
A big issue for me is that the real problem isn't getting a part made, it's getting the CAD done, or getting the CT or MRI information into a form which can me modified in a CAD program, and while there are open source tools to do some of this, the best way seems to be to use something like Geomagic Design and then you'll need to have a resident (or here Resident) expert to do this image to model work to make usable stuff. This is a huge pet peeve of mine with the coverage of 3D printing where everyone misses the point that the true revolution is as much or more in our design tools as it is in the machines that make things and in the case of 3D printing, 90% of the mental effort is on the CAD side.
We have a really fine machine shop, and we have Markus over the bridge so I've never felt much need for one for my automation or medical device work, but there is the odd problem like for example a special bezel one of my guys wants to design to cover a hole in sheet metal where some wires need to come out and bend around the outside of a box. Tricky shapes, but non structural stuff in other words. I love the idea of having one to make weird air ducts for small fans.
As a final though, we are looking at some like the uPrint or Projet1000 which are remarkably good, though not as good as the Objet. All are way better than the Makerbot class which, while good and usable for many things, aren't really professional machines.
As an addendum to the final thought, I agree with Markus that the titanium scaffold implant thing holds a lot of promise and in fact various 3D printed bits are already in use in bone surgery, but actual 3D printing of biological tissue may be a lot further off. At any rate, it has almost nothing to do with 3D printing of plastic or metal any more than your kitchen blender has in common with other rotary cutting tools like a milling machine.
Oh, and one last thing, further to Marcus' point, printing slows with the cube of the part length, so it's more compelling for parts with little overall material, whether they're small or thin walled.
Hertz
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2009
- Location
- Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
Not sure how old it is. I just referenced it for this topic.
its the true artisan who can sum up the virtues of their craft in one sentence.....I am humbled..
drewboyer
Stainless
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2009
- Location
- Odessa, TX
Well let's get to the real question. How long before I can use one to make me a bigger shlong?
