Re-scraping a planer toolhead

One of the first things I did upon acquisition of the Whitcomb Blaisdell planer a few years ago was to rebuilt the clapper so it would plane without deflection. However, it was discovered that the slide also had some slop. It would plane an angle ok if the angle was not too wide, but mostly I just used fixtures and avoided planing with power down.

Recently John Oder sent a 5 ft straight edge to be planed. I had explained to him that my planer would do stuff up to about 4' pretty flat, but after that the ends start to kick up and there is increasing error as things approach 80" long. I have not mapped it in a few years, but guessing maybe .003" - .005" in 5' and increasing to .006 - .008 at full stroke length (~82"). I said if the SE came out and I could measure the error, I'd get it under ..003" by rough scraping so long as someone else did the finish on it.

I had commented on PM a few times that the planer will plane pretty straight sideways. For instance, a groove might vary in depth a few .001's as described above, but it was not easy to find error sideways.

Richard King had mentioned a few times that he used to have some old planers at various times with various amounts of error, and one of the ways he found to plane straight edges was to lay them on their side and plane down with power feed. This made a lot of sense to me, given what I had already discovered about mine. So it sort of occurred to me, instead of scraping error out of JO's straight edge should it happen, it might be smarter to make time to scrape the long delayed toolslide in and have it in better shape to plane the SE as well as other jobs that would be easier with power feed such as angles.

I tore the slide apart, inspected, and did the machine work Friday morning.

Here's the toolslide. It can be seen that the middle is fat, so the slide rocks sideways, and the top had an "interesting" wear step in it under the gib side DT.



The original scraping was already down somewhat into the side margins of the casting, so I planed it on the shaper to relieve the area outside the ways.



While i was at it, I had indicated the dovetail in flat and straight to the shaper. The locating side of the DT was not really very far off. Most of the error was on the gib side. As can be seen, on the order of .010" from the fat middle to the most worn end. So I went ahead and planed the gib side dovetail to approach parallel to the other/locating side. If you look closely, the end nearest the shaper column is not quite cut. I did leave a margin for error when scraping.



Then the insides of the dovetails were relieved with a parting tool, to clear the edge of a dovetail straight edge and to ease the work.



Here's the topslide. The reason for all the damage on the male dovetail can be seen: a gib that appears to have been broken, welded, and broken again. The short section seems to have been used/tightened in such a way that it wore a pretty good step in the other part.



smt

There was not much to do to the topslide, except relieve the corners with the parting tool.



After lunch, i started scraping.
The topslide was marked to a Starrett pink surface plate. As can be seen, the flat surfaces are not really that bad.
There's a little bit of twist.



In only 3 or 4 iterations, this is what it looked like, but this is pretty thick blue.



Since the top slide will be used as the master to scrape the male DT slide to, I like to have it refined a bit more.
Here is iteration 17 on thin blue. I scraped those dots and called it done.



Time to scrape the dovetail on the locating (opposite the gib) side.
Most of the wear is in the middle. The SE is bearing faintly on the ends.



smt

few iterations later, and we have contact. Still a hole down at the other end.



Getting better, hole is gone.



This is getting adequate on thin blue. I scraped it another time or 2 times but got tired of trying to take photos.



Took a few minutes to clean up the contact surfaces and make sure there was no twist or serious high spots. In this case, a lot of the work was really rust removal. Straight edge was used as well as the flat to bridge diagonals, but not a lot of time spent here as can be seen Just need to verify no major out of flat that would influence the dovetail ways when the parts are clamped.



Then it's on to the male DT slide. A little more wear than the other parts so far.



smt

Here's the first scraping cycle.



Well, here we are bearing down and 3 iterations later:



But what's this? Suddenly iteration #4 is going the wrong way!



We sort of expected it might happen, just kind of hoped maybe there might be enough clearance, but there isn't. This is a good example, if the marking trend suddenly changes, don't scrape it. Look for the problem. A little blue on the "non-contact" surfaces of the topslide reveals it is making contact.



In some respects, planing to relieve the topslide might be preferable. There is more metal overall in it, and relieving that side makes the dovetails "grow". However, I put some time into getting the scraping right on it to use for the master, so was not really interested in messing with it given other options. The Male DT has wide arrisses, (flats on the side of the DT's) so planing .010" off the tops will not actually change the contact surface and it simplifies my problem.



It can be seen that I took no chances and also narrowed the (previously) unplaned center section, lest scraping should move the slides sideways enough to interfere.

smt

Scraping the reference side.



Minor progress.



Due to the wide flange, it was difficult to get a straight Biax blade in the DT. This extension made it work, though it gives up some aggressiveness.



One side finished!



Here is the opposite side, the one the gib will ride on. It has been planed on the shaper parallel to the reference side, more or less. Measured over pins, there was still .005" difference, end to end. Since the machining is hollow (deflection of the shaper ram) I figured it would be fast to get the .005" gone. Should have been, too.



Unfortunately, I got my mind mixed up and started scraping the narrow side, not the wide side.
So when I decided to measure to see how progress was going, i found i was now out by .008" !

I was so disgusted I just kept busy scraping and did not photo record my error or take any more photos of (eventual) progress.

That was it for Saturday, wife wanted to watch a Netflix video & turn in early. Son was getting back from 3 months in Japan on Sunday/Fathers day and we were going down to Kennedy to pick him up!

smt

It took 2 days/16 or so hours to machine and scrape the slides on Friday and Saturday.

Then it took 10 hours today to make a replacement for a danged broken gib!

I keep some Durabar class 30 on hand just in case. Had planed one edge a year or so ago, so it was a matter of sawing off a suitable strip.



Erred on the thick side, not knowing how much it would spring.
As it turned out, about .012". Shimmed and ground the hump, then flipped a few times to make it parallel & get down to thickness.



Milled the edges, and drilled the spots on a tilting magnet, since my mill does not nod.





Flaked it to break up the ground surface. First actual flaking I've done on a machine sliding part. So not very good at it. (by hand, I don't have a biax flaker).



Ready to assemble.



John, if you are reading this I still have not opened the crate. Assuming things are safest that way for now.

smt

stephen thomas said:

Due to the wide flange, it was difficult to get a straight Biax blade in the DT. This extension made it work, though it gives up some aggressiveness.

smt

Click to expand...

Stephen, is that extension available from Dapra or did you fab it yourself? I haven't seen one before and checked my pretty complete set of holders and I only have straight ones that go up to 5". Looks really useful.

Nice work! Just a couple of questions and comments for you and for the other readers working on similar projects. Very great job, great pic's and narration.

Did You put in some oil grooves and some oil cups with some wicks so the oil drains slowly ?. Many of the older machine builders told you in the operators manual to clean the machine ways and wipe a thin layer of oil on them before use. Also during the Wars many machines were made fast and fine details like lubrication was left out so the machine could go out the door to the war plants. I would have added a zip zag oil groove in the shorter ways making sure it was never exposed to the air. I also would have 1/2 mooned the short sides Drilled and pressed in Gitts or Trico oil cups with a oil wick to slow the oil out of it to lube the ways.

I would have also tested the parallelism of the bottom swivel area to the top before cutting it on the shaper as you noted the dovetails were out of parallel .008" after cutting them. This may have happened if the top was not parallel with the bottom while sitting in the shaper on the parallels, is the lower the flat on one end would make the dovetails change or narrow on one end. We had that happen on Matt I's lathe compound in the MI class.

I would also recommend that everyone on your machines slides by relieving the middle 40% a minimum of .0002 to .0005" of all the ways as this is a double check to be sure the middle isn't high and your not getting the rocking chair affect in the beginning plus if you start with the middle of the short side low at the end, as it wears because there are no way wipers and the dirt comes in on the ends the short way will wear high in the middle. So leaving the middle 40% low, as it wears it wears flatter and not high in the middle.

I am assuming you checked to be sure to re-align the feed screw bracket as you moved the screw center line down and over. This can be tricky sometimes if you take off to much and the holes in the bracket could be off 1/2 a hole. I usually make a new bracket or loc-tite in screws, cut them off and drill and tap new holes and in some machines, new dowel pins. If there is plenty of room in the holes screw the bracket down as near the bracket and nut before tightening the bracket.

Also don't tighten the gib to tight, let the shorter way hang down on the nut. I would leave about .0005" to .001" gap in the ways or gib clearance to not let in bind up. The same thing one does on the knee of a Bridgeport or head of a surface grinder. If you have the gib to tight and the weight is not hanging down on the nut and screw as it cuts in drops and digs into the work. That blade holder is still made by Biax and can be bought from Dapra, I will add a part number shortly. KL-170 Tool Holder Extension $86.00. If anyone wants the current price sheet, email me and I'll send it to you. Or Charles I can send it to you for the sticky? You need to be sitting down when you read the prices for the scrapers and blades though.

One thing also I would have straightened the gib before shimming it as cast iron bends a lot. I show everyone in the classes how to straighten bent gibs before fitting them, and most people are shocked how easy they bend and don't break.

I also like the blade radius as it looks like a R 40 as many never grind the flat blades and will scratch the ways as the corners gouge in. Rich


PS: What are you going to do with the high end issue you asked about last week?? Just use it?

Looking good Stephen, I really like the use of the parting tool in the shaper to relieve the inner sharp V corner so you can mark and scrape there. I have been trying to wrap my head around possible use of a rotary tool but it seems like there is no way other than a possible slitting saw type blade.

Richard answered Charles Q, the extension is Biax stock item.

So i'll just go through Richard's nice analysis point by point

Richard, thanks for the compliment!

Richard King said:

Nice work! Just a couple of questions and comments for you and for the other readers working on similar projects. Very great job, great pic's and narration.

Did You put in some oil grooves and some oil cups with some wicks so the oil drains slowly ?. Many of the older machine builders told you in the operators manual to clean the machine ways and wipe a thin layer of oil on them before use. Also during the Wars many machines were made fast and fine details like lubrication was left out so the machine could go out the door to the war plants. I would have added a zip zag oil groove in the shorter ways making sure it was never exposed to the air. I also would have 1/2 mooned the short sides Drilled and pressed in Gitts or Trico oil cups with a oil wick to slow the oil out of it to lube the ways.

Click to expand...

I plan to add Gits oil cups to the top of the short ways (male DT's) when i can make time. It is not very much time to do, but the drilling and plugging to get one one oil cup on each side, to feed both the flat and the DT face. Though i may give up on the one-cup-per-side elegance and just put 2. Would look worse, but work as well. Then again, anyone who follows my work will notice i don't spend a lot of time on machine "looks" (paint, shine) other than that I want the work and the shapes to be elegant!

You are the expert, but I won't zig-zag it, or flake the short slides here. They are the ones that wear the fastest. I have seen too many slides that wore prematurely on the ends because there was not enough "density". Not only does it wear from machine forces in use, but it lets dirt in that accelerates the wear. I have been toying with the idea of flaking or possibly adding a zig-zag to the top slide but it is harder to work in the female DT. That work will wait until I can add the Gits. I'm the only one using this machine and while it does get "a lot" of use (for a small shop) it is not used everyday or even every week. I can do the clean and oil wipe for now. But I do love the idea of adding oilers, especially for power feeding, as soon as possible.

I would have also tested the parallelism of the bottom swivel area to the top before cutting it on the shaper as you noted the dovetails were out of parallel .008" after cutting them. This may have happened if the top was not parallel with the bottom while sitting in the shaper on the parallels, is the lower the flat on one end would make the dovetails change or narrow on one end. We had that happen on Matt I's lathe compound in the MI class.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is the first thing I always do. If you look at the photos, there are small numbers across the ends (4 points) on the male DT. (not the large ones about dimension over pin) The small numbers cross wise refer to the thickness of the casting at the corners, under the flat ways. It was within about .005 as worn, ended about .002 as scraped without much effort. I did not see a reason to fuss further for the geometry of the way this tool works.

Also, you mis-understood my ".008" error in the width of the male DT. It had nothing to do with machining. It had to do with me getting tired, and scraping the wrong end of the DT. Basically stupidity. As machined and shown in the picture, the surface was slightly hollow and the ends were .005 out of parallel, one end was not completely cleaned up from machining. (where the sharp end of the broken gib had worn a step). I measured, analyzed the situation, and started promptly to scrape differentially down on ....wait for it.... the wrong end! I figured given the .005" off one end, with the hollow, I'd be half way there in 2 or 3 iterations. Well, I did change things by .003" in 3 passes...but I was scraping the wrong end due to a brain fart and now had to scrape .008" off the other end and the slide was no longer hollow to make things easy.

Anyway, there was nothing wrong with the parallelism, top to back

I would also recommend that everyone on your machines slides by relieving the middle 40% a minimum of .0002 to .0005" of all the ways as this is a double check to be sure the middle isn't high and your not getting the rocking chair affect in the beginning plus if you start with the middle of the short side low at the end, as it wears because there are no way wipers and the dirt comes in on the ends the short way will wear high in the middle. So leaving the middle 40% low, as it wears it wears flatter and not high in the middle.

Click to expand...

I do this religiously, sometimes think I over do it. If you study the markings, or maybe I did not post some of the photos that show it, my density of bearing tend to be heavier at the ends of slides. I will scrape out the middle (lightly) for a pass and go over it all again to get the dense ends.

I am assuming you checked to be sure to re-align the feed screw bracket as you moved the screw center line down and over. This can be tricky sometimes if you take off to much and the holes in the bracket could be off 1/2 a hole. I usually make a new bracket or loc-tite in screws, cut them off and drill and tap new holes and in some machines, new dowel pins. If there is plenty of room in the holes screw the bracket down as near the bracket and nut before tightening the bracket.

Click to expand...

Some machines you do get what feel like "freebies" As you more or less allude to, to align the screw on this machine is merely to bump the bracket around on the existing holes. in a worst case, maybe file the side of a hole with a rat tail, or possibly stick an endmill mill in, to widen it one direction or the other. I have to put the machine back together without the screw for the time being, to run the wood tracer project I've been working on. The slide will float just to follow the curved template, for now

Also don't tighten the gib to tight, let the shorter way hang down on the nut. I would leave about .0005" to .001" gap in the ways or gib clearance to not let in bind up. The same thing one does on the knee of a Bridgeport or head of a surface grinder. If you have the gib to tight and the weight is not hanging down on the nut and screw as it cuts in drops and digs into the work.

Click to expand...

(see above comment about tracer/following the template)

That blade holder is still made by Biax and can be bought from Dapra, I will add a part number shortly. KL-170 Tool Holder Extension $86.00. If anyone wants the current price sheet, email me and I'll send it to you. Or Charles I can send it to you for the sticky? You need to be sitting down when you read the prices for the scrapers and blades though.

Click to expand...

Thanks for answering Charles, and the update on pricing!

One thing also I would have straightened the gib before shimming it as cast iron bends a lot. I show everyone in the classes how to straighten bent gibs before fitting them, and most people are shocked how easy they bend and don't break.

Click to expand...

???? Where did you get the idea I "shimmed" the gib?
It was broken, so I made a new one out of class 30 durabar.

No need to straighten it, though i have straightened and shimmed a few in the past.
If you are looking at the picture showing the back side screw pockets, the gib is about 1/2 inch longer than necessary at this point. The 1/2 hole at the end, is a reference to see how deep I was poking the screw pockets, when setting the mill down feed stop. So maybe that looked like the end of the broken gib, to you or to others. It is not, it is a brand new gib and was trimmed to length before installation.

I also like the blade radius as it looks like a R 40 as many never grind the flat blades and will scratch the ways as the corners gouge in. Rich

Click to expand...

Thanks, appreciate the feedback on that. I seldom grind blades except at initial prep when newly made; or if they get out of shape. Just too much time wasted going back and forth to the grinder. I use a good diamond hone (factory made) and keep blades shaped up by hand at the machine that is being worked on. Then i have shop made small laps, red and green, to hand polish the scrapers. Since I only scrape for myself, I may be less careful about scratches than some. (or go longer between working them out) I usually have no time to do the job or have the machine down, so anything that interferes with getting it done is going to be maybe not quite what you would do for art's sake. But it is essential to keep the ends sharp for production, so I keep after the tips steadily while scraping.

PS: What are you going to do with the high end issue you asked about last week?? Just use it?

Click to expand...

For now, just use it. I have to rig a short section of W-section steel over the planer, to put a couple chain falls and trolleys on to lift and turn the table between cycles. That might never happen. If it does happen, it will be next winter. I don't exactly solicit planer work, so can work around it most of the time for my own purposes. Of course I'd love to have the time and a few extra $$ to make the planer right. But in the meantime, life goes on.

PS, as I recall, the idea to fix the tool slide and plane down for longer thin work came from you. Apparently you have had a worn planer or 2, that using lets say "expeditious" methods was more important or easier than rescraping the machine even though that is your expertise!

Thanks for the nice compliments and some good pointers!

smt

Matt-

Thanks!
It is not always easy even with a shaper to stick a cut-off tool in some slides.
The overhangs can get to be excessive with the tool head tilted, including running the ram way out to clear the tilted toolslide.
Always verify it won't hit the shaper column on the back stroke!

In any event, if you set up for it, use a large/thick cut off tool, and reduce the end with back clearance at the cutting end.
This gives a stronger tool with less deflection, given all the overhang necessary to get in some spaces with a tip reduced for less cutting force and no more than necessary slot size at the undercuts.

Slow the shaper way down (I was using 14 spm on a 17.5" stroke to cut a 16.5" long topslide.) Like on a lathe, the slower speed reduces chatter, which on the shaper reduces the possibility of a catch which could break the tool or toss the work out of the vise.

In some cases, just using a machine hacksaw blade by hand goes pretty fast. In this case, there were lots of minor reasons to set the shaper up, so I included all the operations in one go.

smt

Thank you Steven, you took a lot of extra time to document what you were doing and I thank you for the effort. I hope when others are thinking of posting their projects here they will take the time to look at yours as a good example of good photos, and description. Too often some people just take a before and after photo and leave out the details. Sometimes we just get busy and forget to stop to take a photo and sometimes I think people just assume that we all know what they are talking about without a photo.

Thanks again for the taking the extra time and effort.

On a side note is the power steering pump on your mill for coolant?

Charles

Charles-

Thanks for the nice words!

My mill is a South Bend.
Notice the big square box with levers and a dial on the left of the head?
They had this very funky idea of making hydraulic downfeed!

It is kind of cool: Infinitely variable rate up or down, instant rapid up or down with the flick of a knob.

However, mine did not come with the hydraulic power pack/cabinet, (which is quite large, too) but everything else was intact.
So in my cheap skate mode, I "repurposed" the PS pump and reservoir. It took a pretty good sized slug in the port & reduced speed, to get pressure reduced to reasonable for the mill though. The stop is just a hard stop (just the regular quill stop), so if you use high pressure, it will shear the key in the manual down feed lever over time. The PS pump does run hot with the restriction in the port & essentially very minimal flow to move a small cylinder up and down anyway, but works well enough.

smt

Well I did want to add oilers, but was resistant to flaking or oil grooving the ways of the shorter (male) slide because any time you see something like this with heavy flaking, it has worn both ends off and the middle is still high. I like to keep the ends a fairly dense bearing.

But the more I thought about Richards suggestion, the more I like it. No flaking near the ends, but do some form of zig-zag groove, and end it well away from the ends.

I was stuck doing paperwork and quotes all day, so was cranky anyway. Around 4:30 I fired off the messages and went to the shop to drill oil galleries in the planer slide. I had some Gits oilers and may still use them. But there were also a number of zerks in the "oiler drawer" and these would be good for when the slide is cranked over. The galleries are connected on each side, so either oiler (or zerk) does both holes, one on the DT face and one on the flat face. Actually, the reason for the zerk on the side, is really just to plug the cross drilling since I didn't have any 1/8 npt plugs. But what the heck, a zerk gives another position option to apply the oil gun.



So does anyone have pictures of "interesting" oil grooves or patterns to cut here? The holes are at what is the top of the slide.

I've seen some that connect to the supply hole, and some that deliberately don't, letting the oil collect later, after it trickles down or across from the supply hole. Preferences?

smt

PS just to clarify, there is an oil hole inside the face of the DT itself. The holes with the set screws in them on the top surface are not oil holes, they were cross drillings to get the oil to the DT's and are now plugged on the ends with the ss's.

About a month ago I scraped in the ram on my slotter... Like most fast moving reciprocating items with poorly thought out lubrication, it had suffered some minor galling..

Here is the oil grooves it has..

Stephen thanks for taking the time to put up these pictures. I understand what a pain it is to have to have to get the camera out all the time and photograph, then later write about it, but your efforts are very much appreciated.

Hopefully not a stupid question, but can I ask what you're using for dowel pins in the very first photo?

Pete

stephen thomas said:

W
I've seen some that connect to the supply hole, and some that deliberately don't, letting the oil collect later, after it trickles down or across from the supply hole. Preferences?

Click to expand...

This is interesting, was thinking if you had an "oil in this position" mark, where all the cross-drills line up, then you could theoretically fill all of the internal passages with the Gits. So there would be a sort of an internal reservoir. Then as you move up and down, oil could find its way to either face, I suppose one would naturally be prioritized by gravity, but for as much up and down as it likely gets, probably last a very long time!

***

This is OT to the scraping part, but what are you using for a drive system for the planer? Classic loop-shifted leather belt? I have a medium planer in my shop, its a Putnam, 6' table on it x 24" between the columns. My plan was to try to use switches and logic with a 10hp VFD to bring it to life...I haven't seen anyone else doing that, so either I'm loopy or there aren't many planers getting drive retrofits...

matt_isserstedt said:

This is OT to the scraping part, but what are you using for a drive system for the planer? Classic loop-shifted leather belt? I have a medium planer in my shop, its a Putnam, 6' table on it x 24" between the columns. My plan was to try to use switches and logic with a 10hp VFD to bring it to life...I haven't seen anyone else doing that, so either I'm loopy or there aren't many planers getting drive retrofits...

Click to expand...

Well plenty seemed to have been powered by a Ward Leonard type DC drive... A VFD does something similar but with vastly reduced torque at low RPM... It is a good idea you have there...

matt_isserstedt said:

This is OT to the scraping part, but what are you using for a drive system for the planer? Classic loop-shifted leather belt? I have a medium planer in my shop, its a Putnam, 6' table on it x 24" between the columns. My plan was to try to use switches and logic with a 10hp VFD to bring it to life...I haven't seen anyone else doing that, so either I'm loopy or there aren't many planers getting drive retrofits...

Click to expand...

Had the same thought myself for No 1 planer which arrived without any of the drive gear functional. So far it's only a thought as I have too many other projects in the queue...

PDW

RC- I like that the oil groove end well away from each end! Do they have any oil provision to the sides of the DT's which often wear the worst if a machine is seeing much sideways force?

I realize on a slotter, and a planer, most of the force is direct against the flat ways; but for some work, and for the power down feed and angle cutting work that I'm rebuilding this slide, sideways force and wear on the DT's will be maximized. So that is where I'm most interested in good lube.

Matt. as long as one fills a Gits that is "uppermost" it will get oil "everywhere" internally. Though as you note, the "trickle down" effect might be variable. OTOH, thinking about it, say the head is tilted over sideways, gravity will tend to put the oil where most of the force is. I think... I'm going to put felt in the larger galleries as Richard suggested.

Using zerks and the oil gun from the mill can force oil "everywhere" too.

My planer has the classic crossed belts, with a 1916 era 3ph 3 HP planetary gear motor off a floor polisher "up there" doing the motivating. Planer is rated for 5HP, but until recently the drive belt could be made to slip before the 3HP stalled in a heavy cut.
I reported re-belting it recently, but have not had any heavy work to try the modern, and slightly wider, synthetic rubber belt on.

I bought 15' of 6" wide belting from Tractor supply. Sawed on the table saw with a guide, this gave 2 lengths for the forward & reverse drive that are each ~1-3/8" wide, and a piece for the "second belt drive" final drive that is about 3" wide. So far I have replaced the 2nd belt drive, and the forward drive belt. Have not made time to splice the return belt yet. I used a long scarf made with a jig on a beltsander, and superglue for plastics.

It will be great to hear how your VFD drive works out. Should be more efficient, and a lot less drama! Though people who are not running one all day do find the belts fascinating. Heck, I do too, when not thinking about "production"