Lathe ways refurb in Melbourne?

StrayAlien · Jan 9, 2015

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum - I am normally lurking over on the South Bend forum as I am (slowly!) restoring a 1941 10L lathe. As I am in Melbourne, Australia they are not a very common sight around here.

Anybody know of who in Melbourne or Victoria can recondition lathe ways (etc)? I have phoned a couple of people but, for example, the first guy said it would cost me more than $10,000. For a 3.5' bed! Right ...

Does not have to be a company, a skilled individual is cool by me.

All help appreciated. Thanks.

Greg.

cash · Jan 9, 2015

There is somebody on you island with a way grinder but I just can remember who.

He rebuilt it and had a ton of pics for the process.

Search the abrasive forum.

He did a super job.

StrayAlien · Jan 9, 2015

Thanks cash - just searched over there for 'ways', 'lathe', 'bed' and scanned all the (many poages of) results but couldn't see anything obvious. Was it recent?

cash · Jan 9, 2015

no, some years ago.

I believe it was a U.K. machine

cash · Jan 9, 2015

here you go-

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/bringing-my-churchill-grinder-back-life-207823/

shit, he is in your neck of the woods.

StrayAlien · Jan 9, 2015

Nice thread. Thanks. But .. he is 3500klm away. :-):-)

machtool · Jan 9, 2015

Lanza's machine is in Bunbury W.A. Couldn't be any further across the country from Melbourne. Its about 2,300 miles. Not sure he has it running yet.

This is the machine he wants. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_kQBZgvjyU

That's only to the East of Melbourne. But still hard to justify grinding of a SB bed. Its still going to be $1,500

I'll P.M, with contact details.

Regards Phil.

(On Edit) The company that quoted you $10k. Let me guess, the company started with "A-C-U"

StrayAlien · Jan 9, 2015

Thanks Phil, cash. Will switch to PM.

Pete F · Jan 11, 2015

Out of curiosity, how much were you thinking of spending to have the lathe ways "reconditioned"?

RC99 · Jan 11, 2015

It would want to have great sentimental value to get the bed of a lathe like that reground, given the huge amount of work involved on top of the bed grind... The bed grind is the easiest part...

StrayAlien · Jan 12, 2015

Hi Pete, 1500 at most, but it looks like it'd go way beyond that. RC99. Thanks - the cost is a shame ain't it. That is why these of old American beauties get scrapped, and that is the real shame.

Paolo_MD · Jan 12, 2015

Scraping, instead of scrapping...

As mentioned, "regrinding" the bed is probably the least challenging task of rebuilding a lathe. You'll have anyhow to learn and master the art of scraping for the compound, cross-slide, headstock, tailstock, (bed) and carriage (at least, if not scraping, at least flaking the Moglice, Turcite, or whatever you use in order to set the apron back at the proper height).

If the bed has considerable wear (i.e. >= 0.010"), even if it was originally flame-harden, most of the tough shell is now gone. Considering the tiny size, you could easily get away with it by having it cleaned up with a milling machine (result within a few thousands) and do the remainder by scraping.

You'd need at least one or two straightedges and a precision square (what about a granite one, which would double as short straightedge?) for the rest of the work. You can practice scraping by preparing the angle templates you need for the dovetails and, at the end of the day, you'd probably spend less than $1500, get new toys, and learn a lot in the process.

While you're meditating on this, here is a must read: practically, the bible of tool reconditioning.

Good Luck!

Paolo

BillE · Jan 12, 2015

Seems there's wild variation in grinding, one of the northern beaches outfits here quoted $800 for a 1m bed a couple of years back. i paid a visit to the only other local machine rebuilding outfit in the western suburbs a month or so back, as I was nearby and, it was several multiples of that!

Paulo MD said:
If the bed has considerable wear (i.e. >= 0.010"), even if it was originally flame-harden, most of the tough shell is now gone. Considering the tiny size, you could easily get away with it by having it cleaned up with a milling machine (result within a few thousands) and do the remainder by scraping.

I would wonder if it's somewhat better than that. Recall seeing a Monarch(?) brochure johnoder(??) posted on here a while back, when pondering flame v induction hardening, in that case (flame), depth was given as 1/8"....maybe there's a precipitous drop-off though.

StrayAlien · Jan 12, 2015

Thanks Paolo, Ouch - lots of work. Thank for the link - that will make interesting reading. The ways project may have to wait then until I see how much the wear affects things. btw, the wear on the ways is not about 0.002 at most

As a noob, I am not sure I understand why the headstock would need altering ... it rests on the ways (?).

Paolo_MD · Jan 12, 2015

StrayAlien said:
Thanks Paolo, Ouch - lots of work. Thank for the link - that will make interesting reading. The ways project may have to wait then until I see how much the wear affects things. btw, the wear on the ways is not about 0.002 at most

If the ways are really worn only .002", it means that your lathe is almost brand new and that kind of wear shouldn't cause any significant problem.
The most practical way to measure the wear, assuming that the tailstock ways haven't too many dings, is to mount a dial indicator on the carriage with the tip resting on the tailstock ways (generally less worn than the carriage ones).

StrayAlien said:
As a noob, I am not sure I understand why the headstock would need altering ... it rests on the ways (?).

It fits perfectly on an unworn portion of the existing tailstock ways: after grinding, position and geometry will be different enough to grant a re-fitting job. Moreover, the tailstock base, generally has considerable wear and, if you don't want to build a new one or resort to cheap shimming between the base and the body of the tailstock, you'd likely need to remove a few thousands from the bottom of the headstock in order to have spindle and quill at the same height.

Paolo

StrayAlien · Jan 12, 2015

Paolo_MD said:
If the ways are really worn only .002", it means that your lathe is almost brand new and that kind of wear shouldn't cause any significant problem.
Paolo

Thanks Paolo, good to know. And thanks for explaining the headstock thing. Got it. The wear may be more as my method of measure was most unscientific. I bought the lathe in Sydney, drove from Melbourne to get it and dismantled it in their garage while the wife was having a small emotional crisis - understandably so, it was a deceased estate sale. So I was out of there as fast as I could be. I haven't actually used it yet - I just brought all the bits back to Melbourne and hooked into the resto.

My method was simply to lay feeler gauges in the wear against the ridge and rub my finger over it until I felt like I had about the right height - like I said - most unscientific but as I understand it, we're pretty good at gauging that to about 0.001" or so. Certainly, if I put the tailstock on in the center and lightly tighten it up and move it right it binds and does not get to the right at all.

At any rate - it sounds like I should first get it all back together and see how it performs and then judge from there.

Again, many thanks. PM is a great place. :-)

Greg.

PS. rebuild thread is here:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/early-10l-rebuild-teardown-inspection-290320/

RC99 · Jan 13, 2015

A fully blown rebuild if done properly for the average home person with other commitments like work and family will take years to do.... You need specialised skills and generally more accurate then basic stuff tools to do the job properly..

I have trolled my way through a few forums over the past ten years and the number of full, proper and complete tool rebuilds are fairly rare compared to the number of threads I have read, simply because to do a proper one you nearly need to become a hermit outside work to get it done...

Of course it is entirely possible for you to do it, or if you want just do a bit here and there to the lathe, replace some worn bits and so on... paint it up and away you go using it... That is what most people do... Only us hardcore ready for the lunatic asylum types do full rebuilds for the fun of it

ariyama · Jan 13, 2015

I buy many of my tools from estate sales. I look at it the same way I do many of my son's toys that we bought at garage sales. We are caretakers of these things. If we are lucky, they will end up in the hands of someone that finds them useful. So, in a way, you are honoring the deceased by giving the tool a new life.

Andy

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