Survey- What's the best American built engine lathe ever ?

In the 12 inch to 18 inch swing size, newer than 1945 ? Lodge & Shipley, Monarch, Hendey, LeBlond, Sidney, or ??

D, I'm pleased with my 60's Clausing, my friend is happy with his Sheldon (50's ? )

Leblond!

sdav, many machinists think highly of LeBlond. Never used a LeBlond myself, but just to look at a Regal model, for example, it doesn't look particularly special ('cept maybe for the optional "servo shift" aspects on some). Any unique features that make it easier to do good work, or is it just a reputation of accuracy, lack of vibration, and/or long hours without mechanical problems ?

My pop(30 year machinist retired) speaks very highly of the Americans in the bigger sizes you listed. Features and performance are the keys. Couldn't tell you what those good points are tho.

well, i'll have to say the monarch lathes are the best over all, in my opinion.....altho there are several makes almost as good...... hendey (especially the late ones with the 32-speed headstock and hard ways), american pacemaker, sidney (especially the herringbone headstock version), axelson, leblond, lodge & shipley....some of the springfield, lehmann, reed-prentice and nebel lathes were pretty good machinery, too.......

actually, any good operator can do good work in good time with any of the half-dozen best makes.....myself, i prefer the monarch, cos, to me, the monarchs are a bit easier and more comfortable to operate, as well as being fast, smooth, and accurate.

cheers

carla

The Axelson engine lathe as made in the '40's and '50's is without a doubt the best combination of rigidity, accuracy, durability, and ease of operation in all sizes without regard to cost.

The Monarch EE is the finest small toolroom lathe without regard to cost.

I always felt well disposed about the South Bend 10K but it was in production for how many years before they upgraded to a roller bearing spindle and next to no progress thereafter. Any machine tool company without a vigorous development program deserves to expire.

The best modern manual lathe still in production (I think - I bought four for the Gummint in 1991) is the Monarch 1760. In full regalia it even has R/T on the carriage and cross slide and a roller way taper attachment that cuts up to 5" per ft.

I'm particularly attracted to a very rare 20" Monarch toolroom lathe that can be geared for tapers and has a lever you flip to drive from the lead screw end of the index train or the spindle end enable you to cut any lead you can gear for. It also has a backing off attachment equipped with a lead feature for tooling helically gashed gear hobs in the soft.

The Betts Bridgeford heavy shaft and roll lathe is hard to beat in their bracket (36" and larger). They require a lot of muscle to run but they are utterly reliable and accurate as hell provided they are well maintained.

The best low cost US made lathe is that V/S LeBlonde 1340 (I think). Lotta lathe for the buck in the '60's and '70's and they supplied a large range of optional attachments.

My Voest (pronounced "Veest" with an "oo" component) has run for 30 year without a lick of repair except for a trifling amount of collision damage and a click in the spindle gearing from trying to drill 2 1/4" from the solid in cast manganese steel rail wheels through the heavily piped hub. I bought it well equipped and paid a little less than a year's wages for it.

I don't know what to say about the current crop of budget lathes intended for the home shop and incidental user. I have no operating experience with them.

Monarch or Hendy.

Ran an A? Monarch for about 9 months, thought it was about the best thing since sliced bread.

Bought a basket case Hendy, I'm liking it more all the time. It was 18 years ago that I ran that Monarch, but I think the Hendy has the edge.

I like the tailstock with its lever binder, best setup I have seen. Like the taper attachment, like the binder on it also, just pop it loose adjust, and reclamp, best I have seen again. Then there is the leadscrew reversing lever, great! Threading relieving lever, great again.

The only thing I don't like is the layout of the gear pattern in the headstock, but I'll get used to it and not even look at the chart.

Hendy gets my vote, followed by Monarch.

Nothing wrong with a LeBlond. Ditto with Reed Prentice, Lodge and Shipley etc.

Anyone ever heard of a Bradford, I own one, some would consider mine a clunker, but I like the layout of the machine, the shifting pattern is great on the head stock. It was a fine machine in it's day, wish it had harder ways though.

I've owned a couple of Lodge & Shipleys in the 14 to 20" range and they seem to have a problem with feed clutches hanging up. I've also had a couple of Cincinnati Traytops and they were about the handiest and quickest to get around on, but, they were the quickest to lie to you. As far as the little 10" South Bend lathes with the cast iron headstock bearings, I think they are just perfect for what they were designed for. Late model Clausing lathes seem to always be shearing pins in the feed train. I see nothing wrong with Hendey, American, Bradford, Reed Prentice, Springfield or Leblond lathes and the only way I could say that one is better than another is to run them and find out which one is the handiest for me. Sometimes I think that some of the ones that survived through the years were the dogs that nobody wanted to run (unhandy)( or were a bear to run) and today are looked at as a good old heavy duty lathe which they are but the owners now don't know any difference because they have never run the good older machines.
My comments about looking back at machinery makers is that I kinda wish that Warner & Swasey had got into the engine lathe business. If they had, I might have been able to tell you my opinion of the best that ever was. To me, they were in a class like Bridgeport mills were for years and years. Apparently the war years made them so big that after the war they were too big for their own good. I'd like to know more about this company's demise. D or F, got any info?
Today we purchase (usually) whatever comes down the road (price) or will fill a gap in our shop and that is how I have found some of the handier, better built machines for myself. Some of them were your ability to judge a machines condition by observation with a little dumb luck thrown in.
Fred Martin, Greenfield, Ohio

Interesting comments about W & S, Fred (and the other lathes too) I've got lots of W & S literature, but I don't know exactly when they went out of business. The latest W & S machine I saw was a little CNC lathe with Fanuc control I owned once, but it wasn't actually made by them. It was not a very good lathe, so if that any indication, they got to the point of desperation apparently. But it would be fascinating to know the exact date all W & S operations ceased and when the last manual turret lathe was shipped.

Jones and Lamson made some beautiful machines also. Gisholt probably a nice machine, but I've never operated a Gisholt.

Forrest, regarding Axelson, that's one I forgot about.... so after reading your post I pulled out an Axelson full line brochure from about 1958 or so...WOW...that is a serious lathe. The brochure covers the 14 thru 32 inch sizes. The apron case is a two piece casting and completely enclosed with it's own oil bath. The tailstock is "two speed" and has double clamps and a rack and pawl that follows it. Widest taper attachment bearing surface I've ever seen. 14 x 30 model weighs 4,100 lbs. Made in Los Angeles, CA...perhaps Sean has a lead on a few....



Here's the 20" x 43" Axelson....apparently on stage at the Hollywood Bowl ? I can hear the applause !







[This message has been edited by D. Thomas (edited 05-09-2001).]

I had a #5 Gisholt for several years and liked it immensely. It had some wear(built in 1937 if I remember correctly) but did all I needed it to and more. It was very heavy and rigid, comfortable to run, and convenient. My only complaint about Gisholt is the difficulty and inconvenience of repair work on them.
Tom

I've never operated one, but I understand that the Rivett 1030 was a very nice machine. Don't know that it was better than the Monarch 10EE, but was supposed to be as good. Anyone had the chance to run one?

D.Thomas, I`ve run a 24"x140" Leblond Regal for 6 years. It is very heavy duty, but not bulky and obtrusive. Mechanically it is very simple and reliable. I have never run a lathe that was as accurate or responsive to My every command.

The Monarch 10EE is loaded with awesome features. My vote goes to the Monarch 10EE and I'm not being biased here since I also own a Hardinge HLV-H. But that one falls into a different category since it only has an 11 inch swing.

Leblond certainly had excellent equipment, The best??? Well, Not hardly. Servo Shift IMO was the single worst downfall to any of their machines. The lathes I have enjoyed using more than any others were all Pratt & Whitney Model C's. They were the smoothest I ever used and were pretty tough. Many times I was able to take heavy enough cuts to have to tie the gearshifts together with wire and wedge a board between them to avoid jumping out of gear. I never could hear the motors running unless everything else in the shop was turned off. The clutches engaged smoothe and they never made any noise even at 1000rpm, which was the max speed. They had an excellent speed range as well as good threads/feeds. All of the controls were user friendly. The clutch lever also operated an oil pump in the apron that kept everything lubed as you ran the machine.
I never ran a 10EE monarch, but I loved the big monarch I used. Big hydraulic outfit--shifted gears with two dials, one for diameter, the other for surface speed, and together they selected the right speed. Excellent feature. That machine was so powerful I believe it would break something before stalling out.

Well, I really don't know much about lathes since I've only owned about 3 (2 of them Romi/Bridgeports), but I get to fiddle with lots. So far, I'd say the LeBlonde is the easiest to just walk up to and make friends with. I'm not too fond of South Bends personally. They just feel "small" even compared to smaller lathes that feel larger (ooops...my medication must be kicking in).
The Monarch is top gun... really cool machine, but if I had to make a choice, I'd pick the Hardinge if I could only have a single "tool room" lathe. It actually feels "bigger" than the Monarch to me and there is just tons of cool stuff available for it (parts, attachments. tooling..etc).
They are sort of like South Bends in that you are always tripping over a turret, or a tailstock or something, but much more in the Monarch "class" machine.

Aw shucks, what do I know?

Sean

For lathes in that size range I like my Monarch, although I have heard good things about Lodge and Shipley, and Axelson (only saw one, massive construction even compared to a Monarch). Never used a LeBlonde but people I respect have praises for them. American lathes good also, however in MHO not as "handy" of a machine in terms of control layout etc. (overrated)compared to Monarch. Now for the good stuff.. Fred, I echo your sentiments about Warner Swasey. Course I am a turret lathe nut so what else can I say. I have owned several and cant speak highly enough of them. I also agree that the square heads (Gisholt or W/S) are hard to work on. (Am struggling with a Gisholt 2L as this is written, hydraulic shift, 24 way valve for speed selection, timed pressure actuated relays, grrrrr). However, I consider them to be marvels of mechanical engineering. Question for D.T., what W/S literature do you have? I have their book (operators manual, you know, the red one), and the little blue parts book, spiral bound. I am always looking for older interesting literature regarding turrtet lathes (W/S and Gisholt mainly). Would be interested in discussing this more if there are a few more big iron junkies like me out there.

John