Scroll Bender
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Scroll Bender

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Scroll Bender

    Hi guys -

    I did a search on the forums, but I didn't fins what I was looking for. I am just a hobbyist and I don't want to spend too much money. I there a cheap scroll bender that I can buy that will handle 1/2" round bar? I see that a Baileigh has a bender that will go up to 7/16". I guess I could live with that, but it runs about $300. I've seen other cheaper ones, but they only work on 1/4" flat bar. I've found plans for scroll benders, but again, they are for thin flat bar. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,325
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    964
    Likes (Received)
    5323

    Default

    1/2" takes a fair amount of force. Most commercial machines that will do 1/2" round are powered, and cost thousands. The dies alone cost more than three hundred.

    I did a project a while ago where we had to bend 900 scrolls from 1/2" round stainless, in varying sizes up to 24" diameter- and we used a power bender. You dont wanna know how much that machine cost.

    The best solution for home use, small scale scrolling, is to buy a hossfeld bender. I freehand bend scrolls on top of the hossfeld, it doesnt require any fancy expensive dies, and you can do any size or shape of material, any size scroll.

    A new hossfeld is around $625, used they can go cheaper. With one, you can bend any size up to 4" wide, pipe, tube, flat, round, square, angle, and so on. Its a lifetime tool that will be useful for a lot more than scrolls.

    Alternatively, make a scroll jig. bend flat bar in your vise, weld it down to a piece of plate, and do em hot. I doubt, without a hossfeld, you can bend 1/2" cold, but hot, no problem. With a hossfeld, I bend up to 1" cold.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    suburbs of Ann Arbor, MI, USA
    Posts
    13,038
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    423
    Likes (Received)
    1014

    Default

    Cheap...not so sure. Sorry there. Your best bet, depending on other shop capabilities is to make your own. Diacro and Hossfeld have successful designs. Diacro is built on a needle bearing "platen" although I am thinking a tapered roller bearing spindle would work. Hossfeld is more of a double-supported "yoke" design. Some study of pictures and documentation on the 'net will help.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Posts
    6,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    239
    Likes (Received)
    1450

    Default

    Speaking of which...I'd like to get out and see your #4 at some point. I've got some big roller bearings (8" diameter) that I want to use as a platform for a diacro clone. I've been trying to buy one at an auction for a while, but they keep going over my price point.

    Get that rotary working?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    N. GA- 33.992N , -83.72W usa
    Posts
    3,758
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    62
    Likes (Received)
    864

    Default

    here's a good one - you can build yourself:

    Blacksmith running the torsionator again! - YouTube

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    SE PA, Philly
    Posts
    5,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    982
    Likes (Received)
    1753

    Default

    The "torsionator" looks effective, but crude and hard to duplicate. Has anyone had experience with the "Super Vulcain"?
    Combiné ferronnerie à froid - Super Vulcain Distribution


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    N.E. oHIo, USA
    Posts
    2,357
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1372

    Default

    I'd like to know what he used as the base machine for the torsionator.
    At first glance it may be a tire machine.
    I wish my #4 Diacro was that fast!

    Rex

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,325
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    964
    Likes (Received)
    5323

    Default

    My guess is the torsionator has a reversible motor, with foot pedal control, and a gear reduction setup to lower the speed to about 10rpm.

    It is a homemade knockoff of the professional machines.
    I have a Hebo scroll bender, it works basically the same way, with a 4 hp electrically braked cnc controlled motor, so you can program degree of bend.
    Its like the torsionator, only Germans built it out of huge industrial materials.
    The dies work similarly to the torsionator, except they are hinged, rather than stepped. As the scroll is wrapped, they hinge into place to form the next layer.

    A free standing Hebo scroll machine is probably north of fifteen grand these days, even the add on head that I have is probably ten, on top of a 20k plus base unit.
    Obviously overkill for the OP.

    The dies he uses on the torsionator will work for hand bending, though- many blacksmiths make similar dies, and just clamp in their bar, and use a rosebud to slowly heat it and wrap it around the die.
    Smaller stock you can do cold, with a cheater bar if needed.

    The power scroll benders are mostly euro now- there are several european makers- Glaser, Hebo, Nargesa in Spain, and a couple of Italian companies.
    There used to be a US company, called Ram, which made small power scroll benders, but I think they have been out of business a decade or more.
    RAM ELECTRIC SCROLL BENDER

    glaser-maschinen.de - Produkte
    they also make a hand operated version like the Super Vulcain. My guess is two to three grand, landed, for a Glaser or Super Vulcain hand model.

    USA Hebo

    Nargesa: Torsionadora de forja MT150A, maquina de forja ornamental, dobladora de forja

    The little Eureka that Eagle sells tops out at 3/8" round, my guess is that its close to a grand, anyway-
    "Carell Steel Plate Rolling and Angle Rolling, Bending Machines"

  9. Likes digger doug liked this post
  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    N. GA- 33.992N , -83.72W usa
    Posts
    3,758
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    62
    Likes (Received)
    864

    Default

    the shop-made machines are gear reduction drives fitted inside something similar to a welding table with a stout top w/ holes for
    various dog pins . if you can scrounge a 100:1 gear reduction drive and a 5 hp 3phase motor to drive it with , plus a pair of contactors and
    an SPDT switch , you're in business for the machine part...

    all that's left are the dies , which would vary in design by the shape of scroll and stock diameter .......

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Thanks for all the thoughts. It seems to me that I should be able to cut a scroll die out of AR500 steel attach it to a fixture and use a cheater bar. Right now my rod bender will handle up to 5/8 square, but I can't get a scroll pattern out of it.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Posts
    6,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    239
    Likes (Received)
    1450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tnmgcarbide View Post
    the shop-made machines are gear reduction drives fitted inside something similar to a welding table with a stout top w/ holes for
    various dog pins . if you can scrounge a 100:1 gear reduction drive and a 5 hp 3phase motor to drive it with , plus a pair of contactors and
    an SPDT switch , you're in business for the machine part...

    all that's left are the dies , which would vary in design by the shape of scroll and stock diameter .......
    That's a BIG gear drive....hard to find on the surplus market....even at scrap prices, things can get much more expensive than $300.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    5
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WirelessG View Post
    Thanks for all the thoughts. It seems to me that I should be able to cut a scroll die out of AR500 steel attach it to a fixture and use a cheater bar. Right now my rod bender will handle up to 5/8 square, but I can't get a scroll pattern out of it.
    Anyone have any comments on my idea?

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Southeast Michigan
    Posts
    6,545
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    239
    Likes (Received)
    1450

    Default

    Why does the torsionator make that godawful noise? Is that a chain drive having a really bad day? Or really poorly aligned spur gears?

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Edison Washington USA
    Posts
    10,325
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    964
    Likes (Received)
    5323

    Default

    your idea should work fine. I dont think you need AR500- its not like you will be dragging rocks across it- but if you have that, sure, use it.
    I would make the die of a flat plate, and then flat bar on edge, curved to shape and welded to the plate.
    Make steps like the torsionator dies.
    You might be able to just slide a piece of pipe over your stock, and leave the stock long, and cut the excess off after scrolling.

  16. Likes neilho liked this post
  17. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ft Valley Ga.
    Posts
    69
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    8

    Default

    There one up for sale on the auction site GovDeals in Tenn. under the listing for tools . I built mine using the torsionator as a model .
    It was not to difficult to refine it a little .I used a gear box off a pivot irrigation system 50 to 1 ratio with over 60,000 inch pounds of torque i am driving it with a 40 to 1 1 hp gear box . And it bend 15/16 solid rod in a tight hair pin turn without any difficulty . And it is quiet ! i have mine mounted under a 4 ft by 10 ft table with a 3/4 inch top
    And i am using a short piece of male pto shaft for a drive and my mandrels / benders have short pieces of female pto shaft these have a much better fit then his square drive . All the materials used in making mine are salvaged junk . If any one has any interest in the gear box from the pivot irrigation system i have several of them (cheap) they weight about 175 pounds . Just google pivot irrigation gear box for spec.

  18. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Check out the metalcraft 3/4

    Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

  19. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    I just had delivered the metalcraft 3/4 and im nothi g short of impressed.

    Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

  20. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default



    Mk 3/4 i love it

    Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

  21. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kobesko.chris View Post


    Mk 3/4 i love it

    Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


    Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk

  22. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    13
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Mounted ready to go

    Sent from my LGL52VL using Tapatalk


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •