Advice on a old Bridgeport

Verseus · Jan 19, 2018

Hey all, on the hunt for my first mill, and stumbled across this Bridgeport. Its a smaller 32" model, single horse motor, no power drives. Pretty bone standard. Went to see it today, and the axis were all buttery smooth. Only issue is a worn out switch. He is asking $1100. Any pitfalls, traps, or wisdom I should be made aware of? Also, any tips on rigging this machine would be much appreciated.

rons · Jan 19, 2018

In real estate you should ask this question three times:

"Mr. seller, why are you selling?"

After the third time you usually get the answer, but I think the answer is on the right side of the second picture.

Verseus · Jan 19, 2018

Well, in this case, he even sold the larger Bridgeport to the right. The man selling the machines has 4 other *very* nice mills he uses. When he purchased the shop about 10 years ago, it came fully equiped. He's just selling off the last remnants of the old equipment to free up space. Any thoughts on price?

Monarchist · Jan 20, 2018

Verseus said:
Any thoughts on price?

Seldom get any lower if only for part-out and residual scrap value.

Low risk, IOW.

I'd sure hate to go back to ANY mill as had no power traverse on ANY axis, (other than the quill...) though.

You might want to budget for a pair of the hang-ons - as on the mill to the right - or at least ONE.

JRIowa · Jan 20, 2018

it's old, dirty and has probably seen som hard times. Without seeing the ways, there's no way to tell if it's "buttery smooth" or not. Judging by the door on the side, it's pre 1970 and doesn't have a one shot oiler. I'm guessing that the zerks are full of grease. The price is not bad, but ask for the collets that go with it.

You'll need a vise and tooking so be prepared to spend another $2K on all the ancillary stuff. That will get you started.
JR

MushCreek · Jan 20, 2018

That would be a steal around here. It's hard to tell condition without seeing the ways and checking the leadscrews for backlash. By 'rigging'- Do you mean moving the machine, or do you mean tooling it up? I just moved an identical mill the 'backwoods' way, with a hydraulic engine hoist. As for tooling it up, that depends upon anticipated usage. Bare minimum would be a vise, collets, a drill chuck, and cutting tools. Most folks find need of a boring head. Power table feed is nice, but I worked a mill all day for years without one. I have a rotary table for my home mill, and very seldom use it, but every once in a while, it comes in handy. I like a digital readout, especially on older, tired machines. It makes everything much faster and easier. I'm going to power my home mill with a VFD, both to convert to three phase, and cut down on having to change the belt all the time. Again- it depends upon anticipated usage. For instance, if you landed a job making thousands of threaded widgets, a tapping head would be worth it's weight in gold.

Newman109 · Jan 20, 2018

You should check to see what type of collet the machine uses. I looked at a similar machine about ten years ago when I was looking for a BP or clone. The one that I saw had an MT2 spindle. My friend, who is a professional machinist and who was helping me to locate a machine, advised against the MT2 in favor of R8 or larger. I finally found a Webb with R8.

$1,100 is not a bad price, but I'd walk if it is an MT2 since they are limited in capacity to 1/2" IIRC and are known to slip and sometimes slip under load.

michiganbuck · Jan 20, 2018

That is about the going price...

http://www.lathes.co.uk/bridgeport/

Consider collect type, looks of Id (but you can't tell much by looking), bearing noise, slop in lead screws for cross and long travel at near center and at out ends, see the quill feed works well,.and ask away any questions .. is there anything wrong with this machine?..will it hold .003 going across a 12" part?..

A re-built BP might run $4,00 to $8,000 so don't expect a new machine for $1.100.
You can offer $900 but even $900 is a lot of the machine is not good for your needs.

Might get seller to throw in a vise, some hold downs, T nuts, some end mills, cutter arbor

Monarchist · Jan 20, 2018

Newman109 said:
You should check to see what type of collet the machine uses. I looked at a similar machine about ten years ago when I was looking for a BP or clone. The one that I saw had an MT2 spindle. My friend, who is a professional machinist and who was helping me to locate a machine, advised against the MT2 in favor of R8 or larger. I finally found a Webb with R8.

$1,100 is not a bad price, but I'd walk if it is an MT2 since they are limited in capacity to 1/2" IIRC and are known to slip and sometimes slip under load.

Been a while. Over fifty years, actually. But IIRC the MT2's were ordinarily found only on round-ram M-heads or the lighter-yet speciality heads, which this one is none of. First gen J-head, rather, is it not?

Newman109 · Jan 20, 2018

Monarchist said:
Been a while. Over fifty years, actually. But IIRC the MT2's were ordinarily found only on round-ram M-heads, Which this one is not.

Ordinarily, the man said, with great firmness and near certainty.

"The bulk of the machines that Bridgeport made from about 1965 onward used an R8 collet system. Prior to that, most of the machines used a Morse Taper #2 collet system."......

http://www.acmanufacturing.com/bridgeport.htm

Verseus · Jan 20, 2018

JRIowa said:
it's old, dirty and has probably seen som hard times. Without seeing the ways, there's no way to tell if it's "buttery smooth" or not. Judging by the door on the side, it's pre 1970 and doesn't have a one shot oiler. I'm guessing that the zerks are full of grease. The price is not bad, but ask for the collets that go with it.

You'll need a vise and tooking so be prepared to spend another $2K on all the ancillary stuff. That will get you started.
JR

The Model is a 1963 J Pulley. I personally inspected this machine (Though I'm no expert). The ways appeared clean (Despite the rest of the machine, and felt very smooth with no hang ups or tight spots. I have a BP MJ at work that is worn to pieces. The ways are stiff, and there is tons of slop. I didn't notice any of those things in this case. He is throwing in a vise, but yes, tooling is a bugger.

I am not expecting to get a brand new machine for this price. However, my real goal here was to get a half decent starter mill. I don't have a ton of cash to be throwing around, but I'm not afraid of some repair work. The only known issue with this machine is a worn out contact on the switch. At that age the contact could just use some cleaning. Worse comes to worse I replace the switch. Not a big concern.

In terms of upgrades, that all depends on how well the machine does. If it does well, then I'll add a DRO and some other goodies. Already working on designing my own powerfeed modules to save some cost.

The seller has offered to sell this mill, alongside of two Logan lathes (925 and 955) a set of 5c collets (for the 955) and a old vise for the BP for $1500 (USD). I've posted the Lathes here: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...history/logan-model-925-955-questions-345371/
For some reason or another however, it won't allow me to reply to that thread. These would be my first machines. Yes they need a good cleanup, grease / oil, and some tooling. But I'm just trying to ascertain if these would make good home machines for the price.

Monarchist · Jan 20, 2018

Newman109 said:
Ordinarily, the man said, with great firmness and near certainty.

"The bulk of the machines that Bridgeport made from about 1965 onward used an R8 collet system. Prior to that, most of the machines used a Morse Taper #2 collet system."......

http://www.acmanufacturing.com/bridgeport.htm

LOL! Actually... those among us as got the Weldon side-lock virus about the same time we left BirdPorts in the rear-view mirror (summer of 1963 for me..) never much worried about it.

We didn't have to.

(#9 B&S or 40 Taper for the "hobby" shop in me old age. MT is for drill presses. R-8's suck Jello).

JRIowa · Jan 20, 2018

Newman109 said:
"The bulk of the machines that Bridgeport made from about 1965 onward used an R8 collet system. Prior to that, most of the machines used a Morse Taper #2 collet system."......

That actually quite funny. He's off on the timeline and the collets. BP came out with the J head as a standard in 1956. All J, 1.5J and 2J heads use the standard R-8 taper. There are some specials and CNC that could be ordered with Erickson QC-30 tapers.

The original M head could be purchased up into the 70s. There were 3 available tapers MT-2, B&S #7 and B-3. From what I know, probably near half were MT-2. Near half is not most!
JR

Monarchist · Jan 20, 2018

JRIowa said:
That actually quite funny. He's off on the timeline and the collets. BP came out with the J head as a standard in 1956. All J, 1.5J and 2J heads use the standard R-8 taper. There are some specials and CNC that could be ordered with Erickson QC-30 tapers.

The original M head could be purchased up into the 70s. There were 3 available tapers MT-2, B&S #7 and B-3. From what I know, probably near half were MT-2. Near half is not most!
JR

MT is just plain WRONG for any mill not having a locking key (hor-bores).

Morse and B&S folks KNEW that by the late 1800's. Grand for end-loading in a drillpress. A mill's side loads walk it out too easily.

B&S taper drills (been made) are wronger-yet for drillpresses. Unless you don't mind the bugger only ever running the first drill as jammed in the spindle and won't come back out.

R8 has almost exactly the same maximum driving grip as B&S #7. That wasn't an "upgrade" grip-wise. Just that R8 is much less likely to stick in a hot spindle than a(ny) B&S taper.

I'm happy with three spindles under-roof as use the stouter #9 B&S. Also CAREFUL not to hang the buggers in their spindles.

"Wishing" they were all 40-taper hasn't worked. Yet. Guess there is no free lunch?

Newman109 · Jan 20, 2018

Monarchist said:
LOL! Actually... those among us as got the Weldon side-lock virus about the same time we left BirdPorts in the rear-view mirror (summer of 1963 for me..) never much worried about it.

We didn't have to.

(#9 B&S or 40 Taper for the "hobby" shop in me old age. MT is for drill presses. R-8's suck Jello).

I agree that R8's are nothing about which to write home, but like the man said, it is what it is.

Verseus · Jan 20, 2018

JRIowa said:
it's old, dirty and has probably seen som hard times. Without seeing the ways, there's no way to tell if it's "buttery smooth" or not. Judging by the door on the side, it's pre 1970 and doesn't have a one shot oiler. I'm guessing that the zerks are full of grease. The price is not bad, but ask for the collets that go with it.

You'll need a vise and tooking so be prepared to spend another $2K on all the ancillary stuff. That will get you started.
JR

It's a 1963, J-head pulley system. I personally inspected this machine (Though I'm no expert). The bedways seemed clean (despite the appearance of the rest of the machine) and were very smooth. I took them to their farthest extent and didn't notice any stiff spots or any serious slop in the lead screws.

Something else worthy of note, is that it DOES take R8 collets.

The only issue with the mill is a bad contact on the switch, but at that age it could easily just need a good cleaning. Either way, should I have to replace the switch, its not a big deal. I'm not expecting to get a new machine for $1,100. I am just searching for a good starter mill. What upgrades I make to the mill depends on how good of a base it turns out to be. If it turns out well, I'd love to add DRO and some powerfeeds. In fact, I've already started designing my own powerfeeds to save some cost.

As to the rigging question, I was referring to transporting the machine. Where to attach straps for lifting, and transport, etc.

As a side question, what would a good starter set of tooling be? A vise is a given, along with a collet set. Any general use end mills or things of that nature? I understand I'll have to buy more, but for now I just need the basics. Thanks for the advice!

michiganbuck · Jan 20, 2018

[what would a good starter set of tooling be?]
A jobber set of drills, A wall chart of drill and tap sizes.
A fly cutter ..yes you can just make one.
drill chuck, Indicator and base. set of jo blocks can be handy, pair of 123 blocs, step blocks, some hold downs and some long hold down bolts. A solid square, Norton stone, 1,2 and 3" micrometer, set of Jo blocks..Some good files,a heavy angle plate if you find one low priced at auction..A V block and clamp.
Agree a DRO is very handy
I think it good to have at least one end mill holder..perhaps 3/4"
That is good for any heavy milling job that you want to kick but and not worry about the cutter pulling out of a collet.
A cutter arbor perhaps for a one inch hole cutter. *But dont go hog wild until you figure what you will mell.

What to make? A tilt sine table... How about a small cutter grinder.. a vise on a pivot that goes next to your bench grinder. with a slide to in-feed, just for end mill ends...

Verseus · Jan 20, 2018

michiganbuck said:
[what would a good starter set of tooling be?]
A jobber set of drills, A wall chart of drill and tap sizes.
A fly cutter ..yes you canbjust make one.
drill chuck, Indicator and base. set of jo blocks can be handy, pair of 123 blocs, step blocks, some hold downs and some long hold down bolts. A solid square, Norton stone, 1,2 and 3" micrometer, set of Jo blocks..Some good files,
Agree a DRO is very handy
I think it good to have at least one end mill holder..perhaps 3/4"
That is good for any heavy milling job that you want to kick but and not worry about the cutter pulling out of a collet.
A cutter arbor perhaps for a one inch hole cutter. *But dont go hog wild until you figure what you will mell

Ok, there was a lot of lingo / terminology that flew over my head, but a few web searches cleared up a lot.

Drill chuck - I've heard that Jacobs chucks are very good, but pricey. I'm not afraid to pay for quality, but still. No use buying more than I need. Any other good brands you know?
Indicator and base - Any brand recommendations?
Guage Blocks - I see quite the price variation on sets of these, probably due to precision. Again, any recommendations would be helpful.
123 blocks - How nice of a set should I get? I've heard of people using these as more or less expendable. Under that reasoning I'm assuming a cheaper set would be better?
Hold downs / bolts - How important is quality here? Are there any brands to avoid in particular?
Cutter arbor - Why would this be necessary, and what would it be used for? Not questioning, just curious!

I've been researching some DRO's. What is a good (but more affordable) brand? What things should I look for in a DRO?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you gotta learn somehow. Thanks for the recs!

michiganbuck · Jan 20, 2018

For much mill work bargain 123 blocks are fine as often you use them for hold down spacers along with step blocks and still use them for job layout.., Jo blocks the same for starters low priced or an auction set..Hold downs used off ebay, USA, Brit or German best for used stuff. Look at "Woodcraft" lay out plate for a good small plate you can pick up with not paying shipping charges. look around for a steel resale store as that often beats paying shopping for ebay steel because of shipping...

Good to look at/learn prices then go to a pawn shops, craigslist and auctions for a bit,,
You can get a new set of B blocks for $100 so don't pay over 50 for used.

But it depends on what you intend to do with the mill.. walk in jobber work, job shop, make a product to sell, just making stuff for your enjoyment..

JRIowa · Jan 21, 2018

Starter tools
1. Good vise. Don't skrimp here. Buy a Kurt.
2. Drill chuck. Again don't skrimp. Get a Jacobs 16N or 18N.
3. Hold down set.
4. Parallels/ 1-2-3 blocks
5. Insert milling cutter. Don't waste your time and money with a fly cutter. They just beat the crap out of BP bearings.
6. Lots and lots of end mills. buy 1/2" and smaller. No need for some high $ "corn cob" mills. See #5

After you buy all that, let me know if you have money left over. I can help you spent it.
JR

Advice on a old Bridgeport

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