Changing Spindle Bearings in a late model DV59
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
    159
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    9

    Post

    Hi just got a quote from Hardinge to replace the spindle bearings on our DV 59 lathe they quoted $4735 Dollars! The bearings are only $395. But they tell you theres no waranty if they dont install it. Is there any secrets to this. This machine is not doing any high tolance work but the bearing is noisey and the machine is handy for small jobs. Thanks for any info. PS the machine isnt worth more than 1500 dollars.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Westport, Oregon
    Posts
    6
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Post

    I think the only thing they are talking about warrenting is the brg. Do you want to pay $4730 to protect against possibly damaging the brg. during instalation? If you work slowly and carefully, you'll probably do OK, and even if you don't you can buy a lot of replacement brgs. for$4730. I'd go for it if I were you

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,609
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    768
    Likes (Received)
    4430

    Post

    Read this: http://aafradio.org/garajmahal/Hardi...eplacement.htm

    It is good practice to make a proper (special) wrench to remove the spindle nut. I use a piece of thick wall steel tubing with two dowel pins in the end to fit the holes in the nut. I drill a radial hole in the tube and use a standard pin spinner wrench to do the turning. I hate to see a nut that has been attacked with a hammer and pin punch.

    As to warranty, I think Hardinge would warranty the spindle runout to be within new specs if they install the bearings and grind the collet taper in place. Grinding would be a big part of the cost.

    The bearings might be a little less if you get them from a bearing store instead of from Hardinge. But you need to know what to order.

    Larry

  4. Likes machineshaft liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    26,196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5763

    Post

    Thank you for posting the link to mark weber's
    instructions. I think they are among the best.
    When I took the preload nut off the spindle in
    my ESM59 it was hella tight so he should be
    prepared for that.

    Mark always recommended Alpine Bearing in the
    Boston area, I purchased the replacements for
    the Elgin headstock I re-did. They were able to
    convert the New Departure numbers and shipped
    the correct goods.

    Jim

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
    Posts
    5,253
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    607

    Post

    There, In my opinion is a couple of possible fatal flaws in those instructions.
    Never ever under any circumstance strike any, even a cheap bearing with a hammer and a steel drift, or use the precision spacing tube to tap a bearing home.
    The rear bearing would more logically be seated in the headstock casting with a threaded rod and a couple of machined disk fixed to pull the rear bearing in by its outer race.
    Never use a heat gun to warm a precision bearing, that will force dust into and contaminate the bearing.
    The marks on the bearings indicate the high spots. These can be used to make a spindle run truer if you have the measuring equipment to take advantage of that manufacturing flaw.
    All bearing mounting surfaces should be inspected under 15X magnification and the micro scratches from removing the old bearings carefully dressed down.
    Always, draw up an assembly sequence plan and follow it.
    Mop the floor if the assembly is on the shop floor, close the windows and shut off any fans, lock the door, dont eat, drink or smoke, use talc free gloves.
    Bitter experience dictates no room for mistakes.

  7. Likes Kjelle liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    363
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    7

    Post

    Thanks, Donie. Those are good additions. With your permission, I'll rephrase in my own words and add them to the writeup as alternatives/precautions. I still need to integrate the photos I took in my own rebuild. In Mark's original post in RCM years ago, he invited someone to make a FAQ out of it, which is what I tried to do without changing the format too much. I added a number of minor clarifications to Mark's original writeup (with his review), and the document was always intended to be a living document.

    Best wishes,
    Mike
    AAFRadio

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    26,196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5763

    Post

    "couple of machined disk fixed to pull the rear bearing in by its outer race..."

    Interesting issue there.

    On the HLVH and the DV59, the rear bearing
    is constrained to have its inner race with
    a very snug press fit over the spindle OD.

    At the same time it's outer race is a very
    snug fit into the bore of the headstock casting.

    So the conclusion is, a good amount of force
    must be used to press the inner race onto the
    spindle, *and* a good amount of force used to
    press the outer race into the headstock bore.

    All, without applying *any* force that might
    appear between inner race, to outer race, via
    the balls.

    The implication to me is, the fixture that
    is applied to the outboard end of the rear
    bearing *must* have a precisely sized step in it,
    so that force may be applied to both inner and
    outer races, without putting any pressure across
    the bearing via the balls. This is what I tried
    to do when I re-did my ESM59 spindle - but it
    was made easier by the fact that the rear
    bearing is pretty much a pure radial one.

    Those machines have an angular contact pair
    at the front of the spindle, and a single radial
    one at the rear. The radial one seemed to have
    a fair bit of axial motion allowed between
    the inner and outer race. I'd be worried that
    a pressing fixture like the one in discussion
    would have to have a step in it accurate to a
    couple of thou so the press force goes 'where
    it's supposed to.'

    Thanks again to mike (aafradio) for hosting
    mark's description for this task.

    Jim

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Monterey Bay, California
    Posts
    10,248
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    28
    Likes (Received)
    225

    Post

    The micro scratches may be used as an auxiliary indicator of a matched pairs' preferred position, if the front slinger is obscuring one of the faces (this can be an issue on the older TL, and possibly also the TM/UM).

    Carefully dress down with a hard stone, only if necessary.

    Use latex-free gloves, more particularly the purple polymer gloves which come talc-free.

    These are intended for surgeons/technicians who are allergic to latex.

    Most larger drug stores should have them. Also some industrial supply stores.

    Wear a Tyvec® cap on one's hair.

    A Tyvec "gown" would be good, too.

    If someone jokes that you've become a cross-dresser, tell them to go to Hardinge Hell (somewhere in the Eastern hemisphere).

    At the risk of appearing anal-rententive, I'm primarily concerned with the older oil-lubricated bearings, which are open (that is, unshielded) and have phenolic or brass cages, not the newer bearings which are shielded.

    I am advised that these unshielded bearings come pre-coated with a protective lubrication which prevents oxidation, that this coating is compatible with the recommended lubricant, and should not be flushed with Bra-Kleen, or any other solvent prior to installation.

    Donie's observation that the spacer is a precision device is significant. It is carefully honed to its final dimension (length) and it sets the bearings' preload. Never use this component as a "tool".

    Make a set of removal/installation extractors/drivers, perhaps actuated by a length of 3/4" all-thread rod.

    Banish all "dead blow", lead or brass "persuaders" from your workplace while working on the spindle bearings.

    Go slow, take rest breaks, make no mistakes. You only get one chance to get it right and to still maintain the 40 millionths tolerance these machines are capable of.

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Monterey Bay, California
    Posts
    10,248
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    28
    Likes (Received)
    225

    Post

    "Mark always recommended Alpine Bearing in the Boston area, I purchased the replacements for the Elgin headstock I re-did. They were able to convert the New Departure numbers and shipped the correct goods."

    As with a lot of esoterica, there are specialists.

    A bearing house in the Los Angeles area seems to have every Monarch bearing in stock, and at decent prices, too.

    Good to know that there is a similar supplier for Hardinge bearings.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Walla Walla Wine and Wild Turkey
    Posts
    5,253
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    21
    Likes (Received)
    607

    Post

    What I did for the rear bearing on the HC Chucker was, I obtained an electric heating element from a restaurant supply friend and rigged it through the headstock to heat it up. Then installed the rear bearing. Leaving the bearing installed for some time, the bearing heated up. then the spindle slid though easily.
    I also used lint free wipes obtained from a hydraulics supply.
    Sure, use anything that I print, if you find it usefull.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Jersey Shore
    Posts
    159
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    9

    Post

    Thank guys. This machine is no longer the high tolerance machine it was. It is used for small run stuff and was an orphan fron a shop next door. Does a good job but needs tlc. Discused it with the plant manager and we will plan to do it when our new CNC Teach Lathe arives in two weeks. Even with this new machine there will be work for this machine. The new Machine will replace a VERY tired #3 J&L turet lathe. The Boss won't replace machine until its dead! (Same with employes :rolleyes: ) Real old school. Thanks again

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Hi I know this is an old thread but it definitely fits my issue. A customer of mine has a DV-59 that chatters no matter what he does with it. I went to his shop and put my own grind on the tool and it did the same thing. This machine doesn't howl or make any noise as to indicate bad spindle bearings. But I put an indicator on the front of the spindle nose and the Y axis has about .008 run out this is obviously not acceptable. Is this possibly a bearing preload issue? I don't want to take anything apart unless it is necessary other than having the tube out of it which I already do.
    So I thought I would turn to the experts.
    Thanks
    JF

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    26,196
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    5763

    Default

    Put the dial gage on the *front* of the spindle and push/pull to find the total *axial* play. It should be zero. If not the preload is worn out of the bearings.

  16. Likes machineshaft liked this post
  17. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,609
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    768
    Likes (Received)
    4430

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by machineshaft View Post
    Hi I know this is an old thread but it definitely fits my issue. A customer of mine has a DV-59 that chatters no matter what he does with it. I went to his shop and put my own grind on the tool and it did the same thing. This machine doesn't howl or make any noise as to indicate bad spindle bearings. But I put an indicator on the front of the spindle nose and the Y axis has about .008 run out this is obviously not acceptable. Is this possibly a bearing preload issue? I don't want to take anything apart unless it is necessary other than having the tube out of it which I already do.
    So I thought I would turn to the experts.
    Thanks
    JF
    Preload is not adjustable on a Hardinge lathe. The bearing maker sets the preload to the spindle maker's specified amount during the bearing grinding operations. The spindle maker (Hardinge) simply makes the bearing retaining parts to the required dimensions to maintain the bearing maker's assembly specifications. The exact spindle bearing design can be either two angular contact spindle bearings separated by exactly matching spacers for the inner and outer races or a three bearing design where the pair of angular contact bearings are clamped together and a radial ball bearing is located at the left end of the spindle.

    Axial or radial runout on the spindle nose caused by loose bearings means it is time for new bearings unless someone has messed with the bearing retaining parts and left them loose..

    Larry

  18. Likes Stradbash, machineshaft liked this post
  19. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Illinois
    Posts
    18
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    thanks for the good input guys was very helpful
    JF


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •