Cleaning up bridgeport mill - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    My guess from looking at the pictures, is that puppy went thru a fire.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    My guess from looking at the pictures, is that puppy went thru a fire.
    After looking at the pictures again, I think you are correct.

    A note to the OP, check the table, if it's had much heat, it's going to warp.
    JR

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  5. #43
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    Thanks for all the replies. I have been using Krud Kutter with some 0000 steel wool to clean some of the ways before taking the table off. It has worked pretty good, just a lot of scrubbing. I know there are probably faster ways to remove the rust on the ways, but I was trying to minimize damage to any good metal. I have been giving everything daily doses of pb blaster, so hopefully it will break loose by the time I get to some of those parts. I just read the posts on citric acid, right after I looked at my tracking for the 5 gallons of evaporust. I will look into the citric acid further. One quick question on citric acid, if left in the solution to long will it eat good metal? I will definitely try to update with some more pictures today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    My guess from looking at the pictures, is that puppy went thru a fire.
    It doesn't look like fire to me, but anything is possible. Here are some pictures of cords, they look cut, not melted. One on the power feed it still there.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan from Oakland View Post
    My guess from looking at the pictures, is that puppy went thru a fire.
    I don't see that. It looks like it was stored outside for a couple of years. I'll bet you naysayers will be surprised by this mill.

    Can we get more before pictures please?

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    Picture of the right side ways. How clean should the flat part on the table above the ways be before I slide it off? Totally rust free?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamC View Post
    I'll bet you naysayers will be surprised by this mill.
    You hobbiests never quit surprising, amazing, or flabbergasting me!
    JR

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  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamC View Post
    I don't see that. It looks like it was stored outside for a couple of years. I'll bet you naysayers will be surprised by this mill.

    Can we get more before pictures please?
    Bridgeport Mill - Google Photos

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamC View Post
    I'll bet you naysayers will be surprised by this mill.
    Only if he completes it in less than three calendar years AND under one "man" year of effort. You can see the hours wanted for damned near every little corroded detail of it.

    IOW Doable yes. Worth it? NOT. Start with a less-corroded mill or just don't start.

    End of the project - if he even sticks with it to the end - it is AT BEST just one more hobbyist-restored old vertical mill.

    And only a common "gummy-bread" BirdPort at that.

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  14. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Only if he completes it in less than three calendar years AND under one "man" year of effort. You can see the hours wanted for damned near every little corroded detail of it.

    IOW Doable yes. Worth it? NOT. Start with a less-corroded mill or just don't start.

    End of the project - if he even sticks with it to the end - it is AT BEST just one more hobbyist-restored old vertical mill.

    And only a common "gummy-bread" BirdPort at that.
    Those rusty parts look bad in the photos but in reality they aren't the black holes of time and material one might think. They will likely clean up quick. Its the little stuff that takes the time. And that little stuff- fixing the oil system or installing a new one, you almost have to do with every mill.

    024.jpg

    I spent a lot of time doing autobody work- sanding, priming, filling, priming, sanding....which no one has to do- its a labor of love. Ditto buffing the cranks and restoring the dials. Depends on what Adam is after.

    Point is, with old mills like this one, rust does not equal junk.

    And for the record:
    1) I have fed my family with the parts I made on my mills and will do again so I'm not technically a hobbyist, not that it matters.

    2) I don't know many machine shops that still use or are still buying BP style manual machines. Modern machinists are largely NC programmers. In a few short years, entire careers like JRs will be completely irrelevant were it not for the hobby machinists here and elsewhere who are keeping his sort of skill base alive.

    Step one, the machines have to be saved. I vote we decide to support the folks willing to preserve manual machine shop practices before they are lost forever.

    Just read an article today that someone is trying to certify 3D printed Titanium parts for the 787. Do you think anyone in that factory knows or cares how to scrape in a surface, or tram the head of a Bridgeport? Do you think they know how to hand layout a part or use a vise properly? What about an oilstone or a file?

    Sorry- don't mean to sound uppity. I have respect for you guys who spent your careers using these machines even if you have no respect for the only people interested in listening to your stories.

  15. #51
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    AdamBomb
    Scraping with a razor blade is not that hard, or time consuming, I could do that whole table in less time than it will take to remove and soak in Evapo-rust. Even if you do the table in E-R, there is still the knee, the vertical ways, and the ram, do you have tanks big enough (and enough E-R) to do those? If not, you need to learn to scrape the rust away. Considering the condition of the table, start scraping there, if you screw up a little it won't really matter, where you do not want to screw up is on the ways. I use E-R, but only for the small parts, and you have plenty of those to deal with. Do not leave anything in the E-R too long, it forms a black slime that is difficult to remove, and it will turn your hands black too.

    To scrape with a razor, hold razor about 60-70 degrees to table, apply enough pressure that blade starts to bend, then if it is light rust pushing in a straight line will peel the rust off. In heavier rusted areas I find that keeping left edge of blade stationary, and moving right edge in an arc around left edge works well to get the harder stuff off. When finished scraping, hit it with the fine steel wool.

    If cheap old Bridgeports were as common as some of you think, there would be a row of them in my shop.

    There is a big corporate shop near my old shop, all top of the line CNC machines, the machine operators are not machinists, they just load/unload the machines and have the authority to hit the emergency stop button if something goes wrong, starting pay is a whole whopping $12 hr. The corporate world is going to suck the life out of the machining industry, just like every other industry they control.

    In my mind, what better way to learn about a machine than taking it apart and cleaning and hopefully fixing it? If my mentor had the attitude some of you have, I'd still be saving pennies to buy the latest/greatest machine made.

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  17. #52
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    Oops, double posted
    Last edited by dalmatiangirl61; 01-19-2018 at 01:42 PM. Reason: double post

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    If cheap old Bridgeports were as common as some of you think, there would be a row of them in my shop.
    Good for you. If brand-new ones were free, not even ONE would make it in the door of mine. If I were to keep an unproductive PET, It'd be an Airedale or a Dalmation, thanks. They are good folks, s**t outdoors, growl less often, break fewer tools, keep their own arse clean, and don't rust to begin with.

    With a Bee Pee YOU have to do the equivalent FOR it and put up with more noise and dirt all around. WTH - even some Pilgrim with a NEW Haas or resurrected Mazak is STRUGGLING to earn more than a bare crust at the "subtractive" machining game.

    There is a big corporate shop near my old shop, all top of the line CNC machines, the machine operators are not machinists, they just load/unload the machines and have the authority to hit the emergency stop button if something goes wrong, starting pay is a whole whopping $12 hr. The corporate world is going to suck the life out of the machining industry, just like every other industry they control.
    That has been going-on for about fifty years already.

    Prices are up 677.1% 2017 over 1965. Machinist wages haven't anywhere NEAR kept-up on average, or that $12 would be closer to $30 - $40/hr, and for entry, not 5 to 15 and more years in.

    Surely you are not just-now becoming aware of all these changes?

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  20. #54
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    I'm still thinking that mill went through a fire on the LH side. If not, why were all of the wire cut on the power feed.

    John Fahnstock was selling rebuilt BP for just over $4K before he retired. That's a rescraped machine, not just painted.

    When you don't do anything with the ways on an old BP, you're just pissin' in the wind. A BP is not the best mill in the world contrary to what you hobiests think (and as Monarchist has stated). They are a mass produced machine. I have one in my shop but, if somebody was buying a machine for me, it would be an OKK bed mill.

    You can "labor of love" all you want, but not doing anything with the ways when "rebuilding" a BP is still putting lipstick on a pig.
    JR

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    I have see a lot of machines one could make a small pry-up ..just enough to slide in a .010 or so shim and slid off on that.
    Agree would not crank rust through a lead screw nut..
    If the ops time is not worth a bundle then not harm in restoring even a machine worst than that..
    Agree if needing a motor, spindle bearings, straightening a fire warp, and a bad spindle Id, scraping and one small nick-bug on one hand wheel... I would not touch it.
    Last edited by michiganbuck; 01-19-2018 at 07:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Pilgrim with a NEW Haas or resurrected Mazak is STRUGGLING to earn more than a bare crust at the "subtractive" machining game.
    If you gave me a working Mazak I would not know what to do with it, or more importantly, how to run it (although I would try), I'm old school. I must have missed the part where OP said he had a contract with Boeing or NASA and needed to make 10,000 parts with tolerences of .0001 or better, as I remember it he said it was his first mill and he wanted to learn how it worked. We can argue about what he meant by that statement, or he can clarify it.

    I've never worked in a job shop, most jobs I get are 1 offs and within .001 is more than good enough, I've worked to tighter tolerances, and a few parts I made even went into space, but that was a long long time ago. OP's B-P is good enough to make basic parts and for someone to learn on, if he needs something better in the future there are other options.

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    Some companies cut the electrical chords for liability reasons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalmatiangirl61 View Post
    If you gave me a working Mazak I would not know what to do with it, or more importantly, how to run it (although I would try), I'm old school. I must have missed the part where OP said he had a contract with Boeing or NASA and needed to make 10,000 parts with tolerences of .0001 or better, as I remember it he said it was his first mill and he wanted to learn how it worked. We can argue about what he meant by that statement, or he can clarify it.

    I've never worked in a job shop, most jobs I get are 1 offs and within .001 is more than good enough, I've worked to tighter tolerances, and a few parts I made even went into space, but that was a long long time ago. OP's B-P is good enough to make basic parts and for someone to learn on, if he needs something better in the future there are other options.
    It isn't that a BeePee cannot be good for him. It IS that a better BeePee will waste less of his life.

    Just which valuable craft skill does one gain advantageously from de-rusting junk? The "nth" time, not the first three.

    And how much does it cost to buy back the precious time wasted repeating it, once learnt?

    Start from a better mill. Trust this - it will still need LOTS of work.

    But it will deliver usability - and proud grins - sooner, better, and ultimately at less overall cost.

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  28. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    It isn't that a BeePee cannot be good for him. It IS that a better BeePee will waste less of his life.

    Just which valuable craft skill does one gain advantageously from de-rusting junk? The "nth" time, not the first three.

    And how much does it cost to buy back the precious time wasted repeating it, once learnt?

    Start from a better mill. Trust this - it will still need LOTS of work.

    But it will deliver usability - and proud grins - sooner, better, and ultimately at less overall cost.
    #1. It is a free world, and it is his decision on whether or not it is a waste of time.

    #2. I just finished the n'th machine last week, and as with every new brand/model I do I learn something different about how they are made/designed. I used to do it for $, but as I am now semi-retired, I do it for pleasure and personal satisfaction, and no amount of money can buy the latter. You should see the rusted pos sitting on my bench now, if, and its a big if, I can fix it, I'm giving it to a friend that can use it, and will appreciate it.

    #3. You can't buy back time, or personal satisfaction, you just have to decide which is more valuable to YOU.

    #4. You tossing in $$ so OP can buy a nicer machine?

    #5. Maybe, but without the satisfaction of accomplishment. Again, it is what the individual must decide.

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    Hey guys I get both points of view. This is just for the learning experience and knowing how the machine operates. I'm definitely not worried one way or the other. I would how ever like help from people on both sides of the argument as I run into problems. You guys have a lot of knowledge, that I dont. Even though I haven't responded to everyone, I have read and appreciate all the information. Anyway, the mill is in the garage and I'm going to give it a shot.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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