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    Quote Originally Posted by JRIowa View Post
    I looked at the picture of the ways. they are crap! A screw as rusty as that is will also tear up the nut. You can remove the rust, but that doesn't remove the pits. I've been doing this since before most of you were born. Once those ways are pitted, there's really nothing left to do but scrape them back to factory specs.

    A pig is still a pig even if it's got lipstick on it.
    JR
    Why not use it as is? The pits can be used as micro-flaking inclusions. (NOT)

    That mill was probably stored outside.

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    The OP can do whatever he wants, its his machine.

    What I don't like is posters coming here and saying that they're "rebuilding" a BP. Without scraping the ways, it's the lipstick on a pig thing. On the OPs mill, those rust pits will hold dirt and you'll have scoring on the ways in no time. Then the table will not move straight and any accuracy is gone, even with a DRO.

    This is supposed to be a "proffesional" forum, as per Milacron. If you want to rebuild a BP, then look at what Kay Fisher did years ago : Bridgeport Mill - Rebuild
    JR

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRIowa View Post
    The OP can do whatever he wants, its his machine.

    What I don't like is posters coming here and saying that they're "rebuilding" a BP. Without scraping the ways, it's the lipstick on a pig thing. On the OPs mill, those rust pits will hold dirt and you'll have scoring on the ways in no time. Then the table will not move straight and any accuracy is gone, even with a DRO.

    This is supposed to be a "proffesional" forum, as per Milacron. If you want to rebuild a BP, then look at what Kay Fisher did years ago : Bridgeport Mill - Rebuild
    JR
    "Professionals" - most any field - are just folk who have learned more from more mistakes than the average bear ever even lays eyeball on.

    As they progressed, those were very much more often the mistakes of OTHERS, not mistakes of their own doing. Eventually, they may achieve nirvana and be able to hover or skate on a film of bluing, survive loss of an F-15 wing... whatever.

    IF.. those who do not yet appreciate where you, Richard, and other experienced hands are coming from.. do not now and then see an example or three of the wasted time and funds LESS professional undertakings lead to? They don't as easily appreciate the distinctions.

    And they do not as willingly LISTEN to the advice of professionals and apply that advice without endless challenge and argument.

    I think the OP is wasting precious hours of his life. He may also be saving MANY others precious hours of THEIR lives.

    That still has value if a hundred others see how tedious it is for so little gain, then go and seek the better way forward. Not even starting at all when the machine is too far gone, for example.

    Meanwhile.... IF the OP has the guts and the stamina to actually put this "pig" even "mostly" back to rights?

    He may have been foolish to start.

    But he will have HAD to learn a great deal to complete.

    And if he FAILS to finish? That, too, is a valuable lesson to a hundred or more others.

    PM doesn't need to make a "habit" of these sad efforts as other forums might do.

    But an example a year might go a long way to the less-experienced having a better understanding as to WHY our scarce few resident "real" experts hold the views they try to convey to others, thereby cutting down on the contrarian arguments.

    Spooge tank time.... And perhaps a few prayers the "elbow grease" supply dasn't harden or dry up...

    Mean of me, perhaps, but at the end of the day, even countless hours driving towards absolute perfection will only produce a sort-of-like-new BirdPort.

    There's the real tragedy.

    He could have been restoring a K&T, Gorton, or Deckel - and at least had a milling machine at day's end for all his grief.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Nah. Coast Guard. Spiffier pretty-boats.

    I DO have a needle-scaler, but this mill?

    I'd hunt down a 50 lb drum of anhydrous calcium hydroxide, technical, and go at it with slurry on the parts too large for my 50 gal drum spooge tank.

    And for the OP? Look those up. Reverse electrolysis. Build yerself one.

    Also look into gun bunny "nickel enhanced Parkerizing". Dials as bad-off as those will be HARD to polish bright and put black enamel back into the lines and numbers.

    Consider reverse electrolysis, leave surface frosty, Parkerize gray-black, fill with white or yellow enamel. Readability is actually a tad BETTER than OEM that way.

    Now that you've taken this on, may as well git 'er done before you die of old age.

    Or several more of us do.

    PS: Might start by putting that raggedy-ass pair of rust-fossilized channelocks into the spooge tank as a test. No loss if it eats 'em outright. A bit less intimacy with rusted tools being "normal" might loosen the blinders on your sight of the BirdPort cadaver as well.
    Never thought my pliers, I had just found in the yard the week before, would be used to judge me. Just haven't had a chance to derust them. I don't have many tools, but the ones I do have I take very good care of. It was nice to find those free pliers, because without them I wouldn't of had a pair big enough for the knurled nut. Good info though before your little dig at me.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by adambomb777 View Post
    Never thought my pliers, I had just found in the yard the week before, would be used to judge me. Just haven't had a chance to derust them. I don't have many tools, but the ones I do have I take very good care of. It was nice to find those free pliers, because without them I wouldn't of had a pair big enough for the knurled nut. Good info though before your little dig at me.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    "DIG?" Betcherazz I have had worse! OTOH, that's what is nice about (third plug, is it now?) a spooge tank. Seriously. Start small. It is a very cheap process.

    Plastic bucket, battery charger, washing soda, and those very pliers will make a believer out of you in not much wall clock time at all.

    There is going to be pounds and pounds of "stuff" off that old mill that would take more time, far more muscle, more costly chemicals, and come out worse, regardless.

    A spooge tank can cut your workload dramatically, and for less cost that a tanker load of molasses or evap-o-rust. It works faster, takes of old paint as well as rust, and LASTS longer.

    Read about it right here on PM. It can even free-up rusted-in fasteners.


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    Seems like some are beating this new guy up because he doesn’t have a spanking fresh rebuild or skill to rebuild the one he has…and he came here asking for help..seems some are being a bit rough to me.

    Adanbomb, your mill is rusty and you know that. The lead screw should be cleaned up before you run it through the lead screw nut. Perhaps a hand wire brush might be used. The long travel ways look having surface rust, perhaps worse but don’t look pitted from here..Long travel should be cleaned up before travel so a shim between to keep it off might be used. Cross travel and things that move or travel should be cleaned up before use..
    When you get it apart an oil stone will clean up the ways as best they can be..after stoning they will at least be flat and ok to use...

    Next time when you are rich go buy a brand new machine. For now have fun doing what you can with this one..
    -Got a mill now and likely you will have loads of fun with it...

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    I've thought long and hard about this post. People are being accused of slamming others and I don't personally see any of that. IMO, the OP is in over his head with that mill. Having said that, if he was my neighbor, I'd be over helping with it. It would still be that pig with lipstick, but I think I could make it work for a while.

    I bought a new BP, and I've never thought that I was rich. I've paid cash for almost everything that I have. I put myself through college, worked 2 jobs most of my life to have the things I do. I've only had one new vehicle in my entire life. Driven trucks with 250K miles on them. I've skrimped and saved my entire life. Anyone is welcome to come see what I have which isn't much.

    I'm torn between closing this thread and let the OP start a new thread in the "rebuild" section, moving it, or just leaving it. I'll let the OP decide.
    JR

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRIowa View Post
    I've thought long and hard about this post. People are being accused of slamming others and I don't personally see any of that. IMO, the OP is in over his head with that mill. Having said that, if he was my neighbor, I'd be over helping with it. It would still be that pig with lipstick, but I think I could make it work for a while.

    I bought a new BP, and I've never thought that I was rich. I've paid cash for almost everything that I have. I put myself through college, worked 2 jobs most of my life to have the things I do. I've only had one new vehicle in my entire life. Driven trucks with 250K miles on them. I've skrimped and saved my entire life. Anyone is welcome to come see what I have which isn't much.

    I'm torn between closing this thread and let the OP start a new thread in the "rebuild" section, moving it, or just leaving it. I'll let the OP decide.
    JR
    I definitely agree on paying cash for everything. I just thought this was the best section because people usually know the machines they have used or own. I thought if I ran into a problem with disassembly they would be more helpful. I am still thankful for the restoration methods I have received. If you think another section would be better for this project, I am ok with that.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    "DIG?" Betcherazz I have had worse! OTOH, that's what is nice about (third plug, is it now?) a spooge tank. Seriously. Start small. It is a very cheap process.

    Plastic bucket, battery charger, washing soda, and those very pliers will make a believer out of you in not much wall clock time at all.

    There is going to be pounds and pounds of "stuff" off that old mill that would take more time, far more muscle, more costly chemicals, and come out worse, regardless.

    A spooge tank can cut your workload dramatically, and for less cost that a tanker load of molasses or evap-o-rust. It works faster, takes of old paint as well as rust, and LASTS longer.

    Read about it right here on PM. It can even free-up rusted-in fasteners.

    Is this charger to "smart" for electrolysis?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    How's this, we keep it here until you have the mill torn apart. If you decide to do more than clean up, start a thread in the rebuild section. We really don't need to see pictures of you painting the mill, I've seen enough.
    JR

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    So many encourage saving old iron in a lathe even one with perhaps .050 wash out bed..I think it not a bad idea to save an old BP..even if for learning experience.
    Sure one might have $2,000 dollars worth of hours into a machine that may never be worth much over $1,000. or with a good rebuild perhaps much more.
    A guy might over time learn how to rebuild a machine...or learn a new trade..

    It started out as a rough casting at least it is better than that now..

    QT JR: How's this, we keep it here until you have the mill torn apart. If you decide to do more than clean up, start a thread in the rebuild section. We really don't need to see pictures of you painting the mill, I've seen enough.
    JR

    Good idea IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRIowa View Post
    How's this, we keep it here until you have the mill torn apart. If you decide to do more than clean up, start a thread in the rebuild section. We really don't need to see pictures of you painting the mill, I've seen enough.
    JR
    That sounds good to me.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    JR, one major point in keeping the thread here rather than the rebuilding forum is that, as you have pointed out, he is not rebuilding. In fact, his title is "Cleaning up bridgeport mill" - I'd say that's a reasonable description of what he is attempting to do. Not a rebuild, just a cleanup.

    FWIW, I wonder if, apart from folks who specialize in (true) rebuilding, including scraping et al., even the pros here might casually talk about rebuilding a machine, when in fact they mean something more like a cleanup and refurbishment - ? Yes, it grates on the nerves of those who know the proper technical terminology ... believe me, as a university professor, I well understand that feeling! But a certain level of accommodation is necessary when dealing with a large and diverse audience such as found here on PM - a balance between rigor and grace.

    My $0.02, worth every penny you paid for it ...

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    I'm all for keeping the thread open. Just remember, this isn't the "spooge tank forum" or the "soda blaster forum". If it stays on BP stuff, it won't get locked. If it wanders all over the place.....
    JR

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRIowa View Post
    I'm all for keeping the thread open.
    Well? That seems a switch, actually...


    Just remember, this isn't the "spooge tank forum" or the "soda blaster forum". If it stays on BP stuff, it won't get locked. If it wanders all over the place.....
    JR
    If he doesn't electrostrip, blast, or barrel-tumble that fossil, hard to be sure if it is even a BeePee UNDER that much rust!

    That said, it may be time to close it.

    He will need serious "away time" to catch up, if even there's enough to salvage afterwards.

    We have each and severally seen enough sorely depressing corrosion on our own patch to give a miss to "booster shots" of despair off the back of a hobby project.

    Queue the Marquis De Sade? Or better to cut off his rations?


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    Quote Originally Posted by adambomb777 View Post
    Is this charger to "smart" for electrolysis?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    I don't think I agree that electrolysis is the best approach. Its certainly not the only approach.

    Here are my recommendations:
    1) Print out the diagrams as I suggested and price out the components. For example- the leadscrew is only $140. The Cross feed nut everyone is worried about damaging by screwing a rusted screw into it is only $30-something. Know what parts are real money and what parts are chump change before you disassemble. No reason to spend hours and hours on a $10 part. My Bijur oiler was crazy money. I salvaged every part of that I could.

    2) Get a large plastic storage bin and fill it with concentrated purple power. Put everything you remove from your mill in there, for at least a few hours or possibly over night. Even rusted parts will come out cleaner. Its surprising how well that stuff works.

    3) Set-up another tank for evaporust. This can be smaller since Evaporust is more expensive.

    4) Parts like the table can be placed on a work bench or plastic cart and cleaned with razor blades, then green scotchbrite and wd-40. Razor blade one day then a hose down with WD-40 and leave over night. This will sometimes produce dramatic results.

    5) BradJacobs recommended a cheap harbor freight buffer with maroon scotch brite wheels. I found that helpful as well. This is best done on handles and parts like that.

    6) As far as refinishing, there are many helpful threads and I agree we don't need to repeat that here.

    7) MOST IMPORTANTLY-Start collecting inspection tools now. You will need a decent surface plate, preferably a big one, a couple good (not Chinese) test indicators (0-30-0, 0-5-0), a Noga arm (don't skimp), an old Starrett surface gage to mount your test indicators, clamps for that, a machinist's straight edge (could be expensive so shop around), some good squares (like Starrett #20- shop around), a couple good (not Chinese) 123 blocks (look for Moore, Suburban, Starrett- these can all be assembled into effective squares).

    As you clean parts, you will need to start inspecting them to see what is good and what is not. The cleaning will cost you little. You may find, these guys are right and that you need to replace some parts, scrape some parts. But you are right in thinking you won't know that until your parts are clean and inspected. If you don't have this stuff, you will likely need it later anyway.

    The process taught me a great deal, not only about my mill and how it works, but also how to inspect parts/tools and from whence cometh accuracy. To some extent, having a loose machine teaches you how to achieve accuracy, improve surface finish with TECHNIQUE. And those techniques will read across to better machines, making this a worthwhile learning opportunity.

    Sorry if you knew all this already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamC View Post
    I don't think I agree that electrolysis is the best approach. Its certainly not the only approach.

    Here are my recommendations:
    1) Print out the diagrams as I suggested and price out the components. For example- the leadscrew is only $140. The Cross feed nut everyone is worried about damaging by screwing a rusted screw into it is only $30-something. Know what parts are real money and what parts are chump change before you disassemble. No reason to spend hours and hours on a $10 part. My Bijur oiler was crazy money. I salvaged every part of that I could.

    2) Get a large plastic storage bin and fill it with concentrated purple power. Put everything you remove from your mill in there, for at least a few hours or possibly over night. Even rusted parts will come out cleaner. Its surprising how well that stuff works.

    3) Set-up another tank for evaporust. This can be smaller since Evaporust is more expensive.

    4) Parts like the table can be placed on a work bench or plastic cart and cleaned with razor blades, then green scotchbrite and wd-40. Razor blade one day then a hose down with WD-40 and leave over night. This will sometimes produce dramatic results.

    5) BradJacobs recommended a cheap harbor freight buffer with maroon scotch brite wheels. I found that helpful as well. This is best done on handles and parts like that.

    6) As far as refinishing, there are many helpful threads and I agree we don't need to repeat that here.

    7) MOST IMPORTANTLY-Start collecting inspection tools now. You will need a decent surface plate, preferably a big one, a couple good (not Chinese) test indicators (0-30-0, 0-5-0), a Noga arm (don't skimp), an old Starrett surface gage to mount your test indicators, clamps for that, a machinist's straight edge (could be expensive so shop around), some good squares (like Starrett #20- shop around), a couple good (not Chinese) 123 blocks (look for Moore, Suburban, Starrett- these can all be assembled into effective squares).

    As you clean parts, you will need to start inspecting them to see what is good and what is not. The cleaning will cost you little. You may find, these guys are right and that you need to replace some parts, scrape some parts. But you are right in thinking you won't know that until your parts are clean and inspected. If you don't have this stuff, you will likely need it later anyway.

    The process taught me a great deal, not only about my mill and how it works, but also how to inspect parts/tools and from whence cometh accuracy. To some extent, having a loose machine teaches you how to achieve accuracy, improve surface finish with TECHNIQUE. And those techniques will read across to better machines, making this a worthwhile learning opportunity.

    Sorry if you knew all this already.
    Thank you for all the information, especially the inspection tools. I almost have the table ready to come off, working on loosening a stuck gib. I have read some other threads on that subject, so hopefully I can get it out soon. Just letting the pb blaster and way oil soak in for now.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by adambomb777 View Post
    Thank you for all the information, especially the inspection tools. I almost have the table ready to come off, working on loosening a stuck gib. I have read some other threads on that subject, so hopefully I can get it out soon. Just letting the pb blaster and way oil soak in for now.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
    When I last shopped for tooling, with my great respect and admiration for machinists and tool and die makers and the men and women who made their beautifully crafted precision tools, I was both elated and saddened by the low prices I found. So few people even knew what they were selling. I bought a Starrett Crystal Pink 12X18 surface plate for $10 from a guy who thought it was marble. I paid $500 for my 1967 Bridgeport. I could go on and on. Take your time. Be choosey. But start asap!

    Be patient with your stuck parts. I oiled and tapped my ram for a week before it finally broke free.

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    Quote Originally Posted by awake View Post
    JR, one major point in keeping the thread here rather than the rebuilding forum is that, as you have pointed out, he is not rebuilding. In fact, his title is "Cleaning up bridgeport mill" - I'd say that's a reasonable description of what he is attempting to do. Not a rebuild, just a cleanup.

    FWIW, I wonder if, apart from folks who specialize in (true) rebuilding, including scraping et al., even the pros here might casually talk about rebuilding a machine, when in fact they mean something more like a cleanup and refurbishment - ? Yes, it grates on the nerves of those who know the proper technical terminology ... believe me, as a university professor, I well understand that feeling! But a certain level of accommodation is necessary when dealing with a large and diverse audience such as found here on PM - a balance between rigor and grace.

    My $0.02, worth every penny you paid for it ...
    @Awake I am with ya on the point that i think everyone has a different definition of what a rebuild truly is. Hell, some rebuild shops are just cleanup and paint and some are barely that.

    However, I think this is well beyond a cleanup and paint job.

    I mean I know nothing about what is being talking about and am enjoying reading it because I have never done it and will (most likely) never do it. And I dont know all of the forums here on PM and I am not the person to decide where a discussion belongs...

    FWIW Awake, I am not sure I would pay you any pennies for that... just sayin :P

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWElecRepair View Post
    @Awake I am with ya on the point that i think everyone has a different definition of what a rebuild truly is. Hell, some rebuild shops are just cleanup and paint and some are barely that.

    However, I think this is well beyond a cleanup and paint job.

    I mean I know nothing about what is being talking about and am enjoying reading it because I have never done it and will (most likely) never do it. And I dont know all of the forums here on PM and I am not the person to decide where a discussion belongs...

    FWIW Awake, I am not sure I would pay you any pennies for that... just sayin :P

    Jon
    Not a problem, Jon - I'm deeply in debt to the knowledge that you and Barry and the rest of the crew at H&W have so freely shared, and the incredible service you provide, so it will be a long time before you need to send me $0.02!


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