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Dissassembly & Cleanup of a Hardinge HV-4N5C Indexer - Anything to Look Out FoR?

morsetaper2

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Gaithersburg, MD USA
Dissassembly of a Hardinge HV-4N5C Indexer - Anything to Look Out FoR?

Digging into a Hardinge HV-4N5C collet indexer. Any tricks to look out for? Unit is dirty, covered in a lube & chip preservative layer.

Any operating or diss-assembly instructions or anything out there? What are the weak points of these indexers?

So got to a point in diss-assembly where I'm going to call it a night and run across the text: "Set to Zero When Removing Spindle". What does that mean?

set_to_zero.jpg
 
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Bumping this back up, going to get back into this tonight. What do they mean by...

"Set to Zero When Removing Spindle"? Perhaps it will be obvious as i take it apart. But be nice to know before I do.
 
There's woodruff key in the spindle for the index plate. You need to have the spindle at zero for the key to be in the right spot to pass thru a relief in the cast iron bore when you push the spindle out.
 
There's woodruff key in the spindle for the index plate...

I figured that out searching some old posts before you posted back - But I do appreciate you posting that info! Thank You!

Once I got the slotted jam nut, and the little locking claw off, some steady and concentrated wacks with a deadblow released everything. Managed to hit my thumb w/ the deadblow in the process. :angry:
 
Thanks for the post , I picked up a HV-4n a couple weeks ago and plan on going thru it soon. And have some questions
Was the disassembly / assembly straight forward ?.
What is a good working unit worth ?.
Are the castings normally painted ?.
Any one know where to get an operator/ parts manual ?.
Any advice much appreciated
Thanks
Derrick
 

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What is a good working unit worth ?.
eBay sellers typically ask $200 to $400, with some nut cases asking as much as $1,800. You can use an eBay advanced search to see what they actually sell for. The Phase II copy of the HV4N isn't bad at all, but the spindle threads and index plates may not interchange with the Hardinge original.
Are the castings normally painted ?.
From the factory? Yes, of course.
Any one know where to get an operator/ parts manual ?.
The closest thing I've seen is 3 or 4 pages of sales brochure, which lacks a detailed parts breakdown. Hardinge probably thought operation was self-explanatory.
 
Thanks for the post , I picked up a HV-4n a couple weeks ago and plan on going thru it soon. And have some questions....

- Was the disassembly / assembly straight forward ?.

- Any one know where to get an operator/ parts manual ?.

Derrick

For me diss-assembly was straightforward. Searching PM I found out (as OldMachinist explained) that there is a key in the spindle. And there is a clearance cut in the cast housing to allow that key to pass as the spindle is pressed or driven out. You turn the graduated index wheel to "0" to line the key up to the clearance slot. On mine the fit of the graduated index wheel was quite snug to the spindle. And I had to use a deadblow hammer to separate things. On reassembly I used my arbor press to ease the wheel back on. It was that snug of a fit.

If you try and separate the spindle w/o setting the wheel to zero, Things will get F-ed up.

You can download a pdf version of a 1980's era brochure for the various indexers & centers, here...

HV4N Download link at AAF Radio
 
Thanks for the post , I picked up a HV-4n a couple weeks ago and plan on going thru it soon. And have some questions....

- Was the disassembly / assembly straight forward ?.

- Any one know where to get an operator/ parts manual ?.

Derrick

For me diss-assembly was straightforward. Searching PM I found out (as OldMachinist explained) that there is a key in the spindle. And there is a clearance cut in the main housing to allow that key to pass as the spindle is pressed or driven out. You turn the graduated wheel to "0" to line the key up to the clearance slot. On mine the fit of the index wheel was quite snug to the spindle. And I had to use a deadblow hammer to separate things. On reassembly I used my arbor press to ease the wheel back on. It was that snug of a fit.

If you try and seperate the spindle w/o setting the wheel to zero, Things will get fucked up.
 
It appears the AARL scanned document is missing page 2 of the parts listing for the closer, specifically parts 1 thru 33, or am i missing something?

charlie
 
I have an HV4N with the 4º taper spindle. I've found it very useful, and I'm especially pleased that it is small enough to be usable on my rather small Wabeco F1200 bench top mill.

What type of spindle bearing does the HV4N have? It seems that for disassembly you would line it up on "0" and remove the ring nut on the back (in the OP's photo) with a spanner wrench.

What then? Does the spindle slide out easily? Does it need to be "persuaded" with some type of soft hammer?

BTW, this item is still listed on Hardinge's website for $10,000.- I believe that is a "F-U" price. In other words "If anyone actually agreed to pay $10k then we'll dig up the part and put one of these damned old things together. Otherwise F-U".
 
I have an HV4N with the 4º taper spindle. I've found it very useful, and I'm especially pleased that it is small enough to be usable on my rather small Wabeco F1200 bench top mill.

What type of spindle bearing does the HV4N have? It seems that for disassembly you would line it up on "0" and remove the ring nut on the back (in the OP's photo) with a spanner wrench.

What then? Does the spindle slide out easily? Does it need to be "persuaded" with some type of soft hammer?

BTW, this item is still listed on Hardinge's website for $10,000.- I believe that is a "F-U" price. In other words "If anyone actually agreed to pay $10k then we'll dig up the part and put one of these damned old things together. Otherwise F-U".

I bought an HV4 (that's the one without a 4º taper or threaded spindle nose) new in March 1988 for $875.00. Running that figure through an on-line inflation calculator you get $1887.00 in December 2018 money. Last night Hardinge showed $10,300.00 for this on their website. And why $300 more for a model with a simpler spindle? Surprisingly to me they show the HV4N and HV4NX are in stock; I wonder how many they have. The HV4 is not in stock.

If the simpler H4 (horizontal only model) comes back in stock, one could get it for a bit less, $9,900.00.

Wonder if a real buyer would really have to pay that much.

David
 
What type of spindle bearing does the HV4N have? It seems that for disassembly you would line it up on "0" and remove the ring nut on the back (in the OP's photo) with a spanner wrench.

What then? Does the spindle slide out easily? Does it need to be "persuaded" with some type of soft hammer?

I just had mine apart. The "bearing" is a long taper (approx 10 degree included angle) of the spindle operating directly in the cast iron housing. It should not need to be persuaded too hard, although the dividing wheel is a light press fit on the spindle. So the procedure for disassembly is to remove everything from the rear of the spindle. Once the spanner nut is removed, make sure the align the zero mark to the index and tap the spindle out the front. If the zero mark is not aligned, a small woodruf key in the spindle will not align with a clearance slot in the casting.
 
What type of spindle bearing does the HV4N have? It seems that for disassembly you would line it up on "0" and remove the ring nut on the back (in the OP's photo) with a spanner wrench.

What then? Does the spindle slide out easily? Does it need to be "persuaded" with some type of soft hammer?

I just had mine apart. The "bearing" is a long taper (approx 10 degree included angle) of the spindle operating directly in the cast iron housing. It should not need to be persuaded too hard, although the dividing wheel is a light press fit on the spindle. So the procedure for disassembly is to remove everything from the rear of the spindle. Once the spanner nut is removed, make sure the align the zero mark to the index and tap the spindle out the front. If the zero mark is not aligned, a small woodruf key in the spindle will not align with a clearance slot in the casting.
Jim S.
 
I just had mine apart...

Thanks for the info, Jim.

I bought an HV4 (that's the one without a 4º taper or threaded spindle nose) new in March 1988 for $875.00... Last night Hardinge showed $10,300.00 for this on their website. Wonder if a real buyer would really have to pay that much.

David

That definitely seems to me like "F-U pricing". As in "don't bother us with this".

But why put it on the website? Perhaps to get inquires from defense contractors that can't buy Chinese and will OK the $10k price?
 
Thanks for the info, Jim.



That definitely seems to me like "F-U pricing". As in "don't bother us with this".

But why put it on the website? Perhaps to get inquires from defense contractors that can't buy Chinese and will OK the $10k price?

A few years ago, I was in a shop with a couple of new Taiwan copies of Hardinge HLV-H lathes. The boss said he would have rather bought used Hardinge lathes in nice shape, but his finance people forced him to buy new stuff. I guess if you want a Hardinge indexer and the money people say you have to buy new, Hardinge will help you out.

But you can get the Finn (USA made) for a lot less. Products

Larry
 
I bought an HV4 (that's the one without a 4º taper or threaded spindle nose) new in March 1988 for $875.00. Running that figure through an on-line inflation calculator you get $1887.00 in December 2018 money. Last night Hardinge showed $10,300.00 for this on their website. And why $300 more for a model with a simpler spindle? Surprisingly to me they show the HV4N and HV4NX are in stock; I wonder how many they have. The HV4 is not in stock.

If the simpler H4 (horizontal only model) comes back in stock, one could get it for a bit less, $9,900.00. Wonder if a real buyer would really have to pay that much.

David

Happened to look again today at these on Hardinge's website. The HV-4 is now $10,815.00; it's still out of stock. The HV4N and NX are in stock; either is $10,500.00.

Took a look at the 20 hole index plate, maybe get one for my HV-4. They are $4062.00, but not a problem, they are out of stock.

David
 








 
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