EZ Question for Someone with a Hardinge DV-59

ChipChaff · Dec 10, 2020

Hi all:

Yes, I am embarrassed. Mice have nested in the electrical box of my DV-59 and I'm cleaning up and need to replace at least one fuse - which lost its label. The fuse is located 5 1/2 inches from the bottom of the box and 7 inches from the right side. The fuse is vertically oriented in its holder and is 2 inches long and 1/2 inch wide. If anyone can give me the values of the fuse, I'd appreciate it. I think it's 1.5v but not sure enough to want to go with that. The mice pretty much rendered the schematic unreadable. I hate those meeces to pieces! Never would have thought the little bastardos could get into the electrical box - went to start it up after months of idleness and got an ugly hummmmmmmmm.

Thinking ahead, which is rare for me, a source for Hardinge electrical components would probably be a great help as well - no telling what's corroded beyond cleaning.

Hodge · Dec 10, 2020

ChipChaff said:
Hi all:

Yes, I am embarrassed. Mice have nested in the electrical box of my DV-59 and I'm cleaning up and need to replace at least one fuse - which lost its label. The fuse is located 5 1/2 inches from the bottom of the box and 7 inches from the right side. The fuse is vertically oriented in its holder and is 2 inches long and 1/2 inch wide. If anyone can give me the values of the fuse, I'd appreciate it. I think it's 1.5v but not sure enough to want to go with that. The mice pretty much rendered the schematic unreadable. I hate those meeces to pieces! Never would have thought the little bastardos could get into the electrical box - went to start it up after months of idleness and got an ugly hummmmmmmmm.

Thinking ahead, which is rare for me, a source for Hardinge electrical components would probably be a great help as well - no telling what's corroded beyond cleaning.

Don't really have any info on the fuse but plenty of empathy dealing with pia mice.

Hodge · Dec 10, 2020

Is there a chance a Harding hc turret lathe would have that same style fuse?
Mine is from the early eighties. Downside I'm not at the shop today
Hodge

ChipChaff · Dec 10, 2020

Hodge said:
Is there a chance a Harding hc turret lathe would have that same style fuse?
Mine is from the early eighties. Downside I'm not at the shop today
Hodge

That I can't tell you. If you have a chance and look at yours, you could check at the location I described and see what you have.

Thanks,
Mark

L Vanice · Dec 10, 2020

First, in the 45 or so years that Hardinge made those lathes, the electrical system was revised several times. The boxes changed size, shape and location, along with actual component layout and the components themselves. The 1946 first version had a step pulley for changing speed. Then they came up with a hand crank to run a variable pitch pulley. In 1960, there was a major redesign. So the voltage rating, serial number and pictures are needed to help figure out what you have.

But I can guarantee that you do not have a 1.5v fuse in that machine. Fuse ratings are in Amperes (A), not Volts (V), and will also have a maximum Volt rating, probably 600V on these machines. The Ampere rating of the fuses will vary with the input voltage. A 440V machine will have fuses rated at 1/2 the size of a 220V machine if they are in the high voltage part of the wiring and the fuses will probably be in a set of three alike. The machine probably has a control transformer that steps the high voltage down to 110V, and may have a single fuse in that part of the wiring.

Larry

jkycia · Dec 10, 2020

Could you post a picture to make things clearer. If it is for 208V you will have two matching fuses, one per phase, likely side by side. If it is three phase you would have three similar fuses. As said before, it is current limit that is the spec you need....also you may need a slow blow fuse to deal with inductive load. That is something to consider. Having a hum makes me think you are missing power to one of your phases to the motor.

ChipChaff · Dec 10, 2020

L Vanice said:
First, in the 45 or so years that Hardinge made those lathes, the electrical system was revised several times. The boxes changed size, shape and location, along with actual component layout and the components themselves. The 1946 first version had a step pulley for changing speed. Then they came up with a hand crank to run a variable pitch pulley. In 1960, there was a major redesign. So the voltage rating, serial number and pictures are needed to help figure out what you have.

But I can guarantee that you do not have a 1.5v fuse in that machine. Fuse ratings are in Amperes (A), not Volts (V), and will also have a maximum Volt rating, probably 600V on these machines. The Ampere rating of the fuses will vary with the input voltage. A 440V machine will have fuses rated at 1/2 the size of a 220V machine if they are in the high voltage part of the wiring and the fuses will probably be in a set of three alike. The machine probably has a control transformer that steps the high voltage down to 110V, and may have a single fuse in that part of the wiring.

Larry

Sorry, Larry, brain fart. I know fuses are rated in amps - I was trying to visualize the fragments of paper around it as I typed. It's 220 3PH and the fuse I need to replace is the only one like it on the panel. There are three much larger ones in the upper left - about 5" long marked Fusetron FRS 10, and they appear to be fine. The mice built their nest in the lower right side. There are a couple of wires with the insulation chewed off in that area and some excrement corrosion on whatever the bottom center piece is that has what appears to be magnetically driven contacts - I pulled that off today and cleaned it up as best I could. The only thing that appears to have been damaged on that assembly is one of the screws that binds the attached wiring was frozen and I had to drill it out after stripping the slot in the head. I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post them. I've got my fingers crossed that the mystery fuse and a few lengths of wire will have it back in operation. The best laid plans of mice and men - this time the mice seem to have prevailed - for now.

thermite · Dec 10, 2020

ChipChaff said:
the mystery fuse and a few lengths of wire will have it back in operation.

Just "solve for" the "mystery" value. It ain't rocket science.

Pretend you built this rig from scratch out of your "Hell box" by instinct, didn't do a lot of math, don't yet KNOW what size fuse is sensible, are "designing one in".....and measure the "normal" current draw.

EG:

- Confirm there is NOT a dead-short on whatever TF it serves. Correcting the chewed wires FIRST is wise, of course!

- Typical VOM/DVM has only a ten-Amp max, but that should do yah.

Pull the fuse. Put the meter in series in its place. Power it up.
Record the draw. Pick a reasonable fuse value.

Did that to my Kenmore/LG fridge/freezer in an "emergency". Put in a 9A I had. Quickly enough the frozen food had even stayed cold.

LATER got aholt of the relevant documents.

LG had used a TEN A.

BFD.

The OEM 10A had blown.

About six years, now it has been the secondary fridge/freezer, 'coz I bought a NEW LG "inverter linear" ......just in case.

.. and my 9A has NOT blown!

Funny part? It's what I had handy. A 9AG. That's an "instrument" fuse! Uber-fast blow!

ChipChaff · Dec 11, 2020

Another gentleman on here had a similar problem and posted this image - hope no one minds me linking it. You can see the fuse I referred to just to the left of his thumb.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ectrical-problem-help-img_20160919_135913.jpg

Here's his picture of the electrical panel I have as well, though he's removed his faulty transformer from the lower right:

Hardinge DV-59 Electrical Problem - Help!?

The contactor on mine was packed solid with mouse bedding and crap - I've cleaned it out and it moves easily and I will dress the contacts to ensure they do what they're supposed to. There is one for sale on eBay for something like $225 which I'd rather not have to buy.

Thanks Thermite but I'm not big on winging things - I got kicked out of the advanced electronics Polaris/Poseidon program and passed the entry level HAM test on rote memorization. Some things come naturally to some but not to others. Funny, thermite is used to burn stuff up, isn't it?

thermite · Dec 11, 2020

ChipChaff said:
Thanks Thermite but I'm not big on winging things - I got kicked out of the advanced electronics Polaris/Poseidon program and passed the entry level HAM test on rote memorization. Some things come naturally to some but not to others. Funny, thermite is used to burn stuff up, isn't it?

Yabut.. you had gotten INTO the ADVANCED course.. so must have done the pre OK?

Fuses are easy. Start light. Be willing to sacrifice a few.

You will nearly ALWAYS be erring to a value "safer" than an OEM did!

OT: "Thermite?"... was once very important to railroads & such more for welding than cutting. Wiki has a good article.

Pre-packaged charges of "Thermate" - for cutting NOT welding - was what I was more familiar with.

Among the important uses, the demolition & clearing of damaged steel structures without need of putting folks up on it at high risk to get cutting torches at it.

Or upsetting folks with use of the "loud wrench" AKA Nitrate (mostly) explosives.

Fire? Yah. That works, too.

If you have a weapons system or a safe full of sensitive documents that is not meant to fall into hostile hands?

A Thermate grenade is a seriously effective "eraser" and won't even break the window glass or mess-up your hearing.

ChipChaff · Dec 12, 2020

thermite said:
Yabut.. you had gotten INTO the ADVANCED course.. so must have done the pre OK?

Fuses are easy. Start light. Be willing to sacrifice a few.

You will nearly ALWAYS be erring to a value "safer" than an OEM did!

OT: "Thermite?"... was once very important to railroads & such more for welding than cutting. Wiki has a good article.

Pre-packaged charges of "Thermate" - for cutting NOT welding - was what I was more familiar with.

Among the important uses, the demolition & clearing of damaged steel structures without need of putting folks up on it at high risk to get cutting torches at it.

Or upsetting folks with use of the "loud wrench" AKA Nitrate (mostly) explosives.

Fire? Yah. That works, too.

If you have a weapons system or a safe full of sensitive documents that is not meant to fall into hostile hands?

A Thermate grenade is a seriously effective "eraser" and won't even break the window glass or mess-up your hearing.

On the advanced electronics program - I scored high on aptitude but I was an immature 17 and partying hard on VA Beach was a lot more appealing than drinking 3.2 beer in the barracks at Dam Neck.

I ordered a couple of 1.5A 230V Bussmann fuses from Grainger yesterday afternoon - I'm pretty sure that's what was on the scrap of label that fell off the fuse. It looked like a piece that fell off of a Dead Sea scroll and my wife tossed it thinking it was nothing. I'm just hoping there is nothing else wrong that will cause the right fuse to look like the wrong fuse. I'm going to trace everything out again and look for problems. Fuses will be here Monday and I should be able to try it out then.

I remember thermite, or maybe thermate, from some improvised munitions guide, either from the military or the SDS or similar as something that once ignited was impossible to extinguish. I'll have to check out the Wiki and read up on the various uses.

Thanks!

thermite · Dec 12, 2020

ChipChaff said:
I scored high on aptitude but I was an immature 17 ..

LOL! "overly mature" 15 when I clocked the Merit Scholarship. Second highest scoring classmate went on to clock a PhD, Nuclear Physics, retire as Chief Technologist, US Navy Nuclear Propulsion program.

I had been getting away with doing as I damned well pleased without much notice ... until that - and my "over 21" & gorgeous GF dropping me off at school with a "married type kiss" - got me caught in the faculty spotlights! Royal PITA, that sort of interference was.

(thermite charge)

..something that once ignited was impossible to extinguish.

LOL! Well, actually "there are ways" to interrupt the reaction. Significant prior preparation required.

But now the secret is outted.

That's why I selected it as a handle!

jbhigley · Dec 12, 2020

Fuse photo

Here is the fuse on my DV-59.

jbhigley · Dec 12, 2020

Another fuse photo.

Sorry for double post, just figuring images out.

jbhigley · Dec 12, 2020

Fuse says Fusetron time delay class K5 FRN1.25 amp 250V interrupting 200,000 amps rms ac

ChipChaff · Dec 12, 2020

jbhigley said:
Fuse says Fusetron time delay class K5 FRN1.25 amp 250V interrupting 200,000 amps rms ac

Awesome, thank you! I'm pretty sure mine said 1.5A but the rest of the info was illegible or missing entirely and so very much appreciated. Funny - I downloaded the DV-59 parts list and it gave a part number but the description was simply "Fuse".

thermite · Dec 12, 2020

ChipChaff said:
Awesome, thank you! I'm pretty sure mine said 1.5A but the rest of the info was illegible or missing entirely and so very much appreciated. Funny - I downloaded the DV-59 parts list and it gave a part number but the description was simply "Fuse".

"For general reference". A collection of sub 5A Littlefuse or Bussmans 1 A and upward, "stock value" should always be kept handy. "Inline" holders are easiest to apply. They can protect most anything small whilst one sorts out a more permanent solution.

If fast reaction and protecting valuable goods in an experimental rig is really crucial? Parallel two low power "signal" type diodes, nose to tail. They blow FAST!

CAVEAT: Wrap them in tape or shrink tubing! The glass ones usually shatter when they "fuse" and the shrapnel is right nasty. DAMHIKT!

sfriedberg · Dec 12, 2020

The K5 class is significant, by the way. "Not just any" 1.25A fuse will do.

thermite · Dec 12, 2020

sfriedberg said:
The K5 class is significant, by the way. "Not just any" 1.25A fuse will do.

Or so the designer figured when it was originally spec'd.
Or (s)he who camel after and had a field-failure problem to correct.

Keeping in mind that well-executed goods do not blow fuses in the first instance - regardless of their type/class!

Nomenclatures have also changed a bit over long years, but here is "one source of many":

How Do You Know the Right Fuse for Circuit Protection Needs

Plenty more sources out there....

ChipChaff · Feb 1, 2021

New fuse didn't change anything; new transformer, ditto. Anyone know where I can download or order a hard copy of the schematic? The one in the door is illegible.

EZ Question for Someone with a Hardinge DV-59

Cast Iron

Stainless

Stainless

Cast Iron

Diamond

Plastic

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Cast Iron

Diamond

Plastic

Attachments

Plastic

Attachments

Plastic

Cast Iron

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

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