Right Angle Head Issue.

BHolcombe · Mar 30, 2021

Installed a Dorial Tool right angle head on the Bridgeport this evening. I had some light face milling work to do on the end of long part. I switched the machine into reverse and turned it on again, it locked up the head.

I took it apart and found nothing obviously wrong with it, with exception to the main bearing seems to be frozen now.

Well lubed and in good shape, so I am thinking that reversing it did it in?

For posterity; I tightened the taper into the spindle prior to locking down the head, as to avoid pulling the bearing apart, so that is not the issue.

Thank you for any help.

thermite · Mar 30, 2021

BHolcombe said:
Installed a Dorial Tool right angle head on the Bridgeport this evening. I had some light face milling work to do on the end of long part. I switched the machine into reverse and turned it on again, it locked up the head.

I took it apart and found nothing obviously wrong with it, with exception to the main bearing seems to be frozen now.

Well lubed and in good shape, so I am thinking that reversing it did it in?

For posterity; I tightened the taper into the spindle prior to locking down the head, as to avoid pulling the bearing apart, so that is not the issue.

Thank you for any help.

"Help" is probably the most expert from the MAKER?

Because they can actually FIX their stuff, not just say, "gee, that's unfortunate!"

Presuming you meant "Dorian Tool" rather than "Dorial":

Support << Dorian Tool International Incorporated

Note that they say to work through your distributor..

BHolcombe · Mar 30, 2021

Strange, I know, but still I persist.

So, can anyone tell me is it possible to run a right angle head in reverse, and something unrelated went wrong with this head or is that was damaged it?

And yes if no one can tell me I'll call Dorian Tool.

thermite · Mar 30, 2021

BHolcombe said:
Strange, I know, but still I persist.

So, can anyone tell me is it possible to run a right angle head in reverse, and something unrelated went wrong with this head or is that was damaged it?

And yes if no one can tell me I'll call Dorian Tool.

Waddyah expect? I can surely run my right (all) angle head either direction. But it weighs more than an entire BirdPort HEAD.

Big-ass Timken tapered roller bearings. More than just the one.
Kearney & Trecker didn't f***k around.

Your little tiny one might be short of space and have used needle bearings?

Well.... there's this wicked little practical joke those buggers can get up to, now and then.

They get bored at the job of just rolling around and "audition" for a job as self-locking brakes. Damned GOOD at it, too. Skew a skosh? Wedge theyselves tighter than a half-decent weld.

Does your one HAVE needle bearings? I haven't a klew. Dorian Tool will know.
Go figure not all right angle heads are built the same way inside?

Contact the maker. They don't just know their product.

They know its common modes of failure. And what can, or cannot, be done about each flavour of them.

Whom else would CARE as much as the maker? They have competition, after all.

Spruewell · Mar 31, 2021

I can’t imagine it not being able to run in reverse. Though perhaps something came unthreaded inside. I would be looking for a parts breakdown of it so you can get an idea of what is in there that could cause it to lock up

BHolcombe · Mar 31, 2021

Spruewell said:
I can’t imagine it not being able to run in reverse. Though perhaps something came unthreaded inside. I would be looking for a parts breakdown of it so you can get an idea of what is in there that could cause it to lock up

I broke it down partially yesterday, so far it seems the main bearing is frozen. Can’t quite tell why, since the unit looked practically unused but it’s an eBay purchase so perhaps the previous user wrecked it.

The main bearing retainer is deep inside the unit so I need long reach snap ring pliers.

BHolcombe · Mar 31, 2021

Trying to get ahold of Dorian Tool is proving to be quite difficult. I called soon as they opened, and was on hold for a while. Tried the same thing a few times throughout the day without success.

The build looks pretty much identical to the Bridgeport version from what I can see, does anyone have issues running it in reverse?

BHolcombe · Apr 1, 2021

OK, Dorian Tool finally got back to me. The head is designed for forward rotation ONLY....making it completely useless to me.

guncrank · Apr 1, 2021

BHolcombe said:
OK, Dorian Tool finally got back to me. The head is designed for forward rotation ONLY....making it completely useless to me.

Since you said that the head locked up did Dorian mention how to unlock it?

stephen thomas · Apr 1, 2021

I know, different make, different model, might be completely irrelevant.....but....
I've had 2 RA heads for my NMTB 30 taper South Bend mill. They have a large ring/nut to take up thrust clearance. Sometimes, even with the setscrew/brass plug in the side that is supposed to bear on the ring and keep it from changing setting...it will anyway. The first SB head i had, someone had actually put a spot weld on the ring to keep it from moving. Discovered why, when i ground the weld out for adjustment & first used it.

AFA the SB units, when set up well, they stay in tune.

AFA your unit, the point of this is "see if there is any form of thrust take-up and if so, adjust it." Maybe add a SS & brass or aluminum plug. Or sell it for a different unit. At least an R8 BP style machine & clones has several options, unlike SB.

smt

jim rozen · Apr 1, 2021

guncrank said:
Since you said that the head locked up did Dorian mention how to unlock it?

And more to the point, why the HECK don't they call that out on a placard on the piece??

morsetaper2 · Apr 1, 2021

Interesting re Dorion = no for reverse.

What about a "Genuine" Bridgeport RA head? Can they be run in reverse, anyone know?

richard newman · Apr 1, 2021

I've run my Bpt head in reverse many times with no problem. But never for a heavy cut, usually cutting wood or aluminum.

I agree with Jim Rozen, it's negligence on their part to not have that prominently displayed somewhere.

BHolcombe · Apr 2, 2021

Dorian Tool had provided no insight into this situation outside of a one-word response to a question in my email. I recognize that these companies are all very busy at the moment, but I found that pretty severely lacking.

I'm a little suspicious of the answer they provided, the internals look identical to that of a regular Bridgeport version from what I can see. The angle is made via a helical cut gear. If I'm not mistaken the Bridgeport made heads also have a helical gear?

I'm pretty annoyed that they did not have a large tag on the unit or even a note in the instructions that this head was made for forward rotational input only. One would expect that the company would do that, again that is if I'm to believe the one-word reply received from Dorian Tool tech support where they highlighted my question and responded.

FredC · Apr 2, 2021

I can not count how many times I have reached up and turned the switch the wrong way. Especially when in back gear. I wonder how many seconds you have before it locks up? :-(

What were they thinking?

Mud · Apr 2, 2021

And which way is forward? Do we assume?
Not being able to reverse is ridiculous.

BHolcombe · Apr 3, 2021

Mud said:
And which way is forward? Do we assume?
Not being able to reverse is ridiculous.

Indeed and I’m increasingly suspicious of the information they provided. I took apart the unit today and found that the spindle bearing is locked. I have a new bearing arriving soon, so I will swap them and assemble the unit.

I think I’ll try running in reverse at low speed and see if it fails again. This thing is absolutely useless to me if I can run it in both directions.

BHolcombe · Apr 4, 2021

I broke apart the unit, found the problem. The input arbor bearing was locked solid, there was some rust around it so perhaps something dripped into it at some point (this is new to me, but not a new unit) and caused the bearing to destroy itself when I changed rotational directions.

I reassembled it and the unit rotates by hand in either direction easily. I'll set it up in low gear and run it, both directions.

After which I can discard any future attempts at seeking advice or insight direct from Dorian Tool, or if it locks again I can sink away in shame.

Mud · Apr 4, 2021

Can you post some photos of the internals?

BHolcombe · Apr 4, 2021

Mud said:
Can you post some photos of the internals?

This is the arbor, the locked up bearing and the pinion gear.

The file is too big, so here is a link

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/img_7791.jpg

Next is the ring gear

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/img_7792.jpg

I didn’t take a photo of the spindle assembly.

Here is the reassembled unit, operating forward and reverse without issue.

...so glad I contacted Dorian Tool support, thanks Thermite

https://brianholcombewoodworker.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/img_7793.jpg

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