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  1. #21
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    When we install nuts, you make them touch, then back off one rotation and install. Will you have enough room to screw it in if you do that? Kind sounds like maybe this was just a one piece nut that was cut in half?

    When you say apron, do you mean the saddle/Y axis? When youa re taking your 30 thou measurement, where in the travel is that? When we are looking at what to replace, we take the measurement in the middle of travel (typically the most wear on the screw) and also the measurement at the very end of travel (least amount of wear) and subtract them. When you are in the middle of your travel, that wear is the nut and the screw combined. When you take the mesurement at the end of travel, that play is almost competely the nut. I agree that its mostly the nut and theyre pretty cheap to get, but that was just an fyi.

    I am also curious when you say that it gets tighter going towards he column, does it not get tighter at the end closest to the operator as well?

    Jon
    H&W Machine Repair

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    Quote Originally Posted by acrosteve View Post
    The knee gib adjustment is bottomed out, so no matter the reading, no adjustment is available there.
    If gibs run out of adjustment they can be shimmed. This H&W video shows how: YouTube
    I used a 10 thousandth shim when I did mine.


    Mal
    AKA The Felsted Skiver

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  4. #23
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    Thanks Jon, and to answer your 1st question - I am not sure, but assume I would have the room. Not sure why not. I only removed the outer half of the cross feed nut far enough to clean the space between them with a pick, as to insure that I could get the full range of adjustment possible. I then drove it back against the other half before assembly. I am not sure how I could tell if it was a 1 piece nut or 2?

    Yes, my apologies - saddle rather than apron. This stuff is not quite 2nd nature to me yet.

    What I referenced before was just free play in the dial. I took some actual measurements of the saddle movement in relation to the column today.

    At the operator end of the travel, I have about .033
    At the middle of the travel, I also have about .033
    And very near the end of travel towards the column, I have .003.

    I suspect that during the life of this machine, they started favoring the area closest to the operator after the middle displayed significant wear?

    Anyway, I think that if I where to go ahead and remove the outer half of the nut and remove some material from it, I would accomplish my goal of reduced backlash near the operator and mid stroke, but as I would get closer to the column, I suspect it would become unbearably tight and bind. Not a desirable situation

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal01 View Post
    If gibs run out of adjustment they can be shimmed. This H&W video shows how: YouTube
    I used a 10 thousandth shim when I did mine.


    Mal
    AKA The Felsted Skiver
    Thanks for that link.

  5. #24
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    There is no reason to take any material off the nut. Just back the nut one rotation off and put it in from there. There is more than enough room in the yoke for that.

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by HWElecRepair View Post
    There is no reason to take any material off the nut. Just back the nut one rotation off and put it in from there. There is more than enough room in the yoke for that.

    Jon


    Thanks Jon. I wasn't sure how that worked.

    I assumed it was assembled with a gap between the two halves and as the backlash was adjusted, the halves got closer together. To the point at which they touch. As you know, the adjustment screw only pushes them together - unlike a gib screw.


    I was thinking with the wear that I have, it would not be advisable to replace the nuts without also replacing the screw. By removing material and then putting them back together, my thinking was that I could get the thread pitch of the two nuts even further apart - thus reducing backlash. With the thread pitch of them the same, they would act as a single nut and allow the most backlash.

  7. #26
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    Naw, since the nuts sit in a key, taking material off wouldnt change where they sat in relation to each other. The backlash is always gonna be there, you can just minimize it slightly.

    I am not sure about the dimensions you gave me in the post prior. Brand new acme screws and nuts have about 5 thou slop in them. If you have 3 in the back, then you have basically no slop in your nut and you get about 30 in your screws where its worn.

    I have replaced just the nuts a few times, but it all depends on what you are happy with. Around 25-30 thou slop, we recommend seeing what needs replaced and fixing it. But we have customers who are perfectly fine with 80 thou play.

    Jon

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    Well, I have ran into a couple of issues, that I wonder about.

    1st, the knee dial assy. I am trying to remove it from the shaft and have not yet been successful. Am I correct that once the handle, and adapter are off, the rest is just slipped on over a key?



    And, the collect alignment screw - I have the nose off of the spindle, and rather than the expected allen screw and lock, I have some sort of set screw in there with a straight screwdriver slot. This has been peened in place in 4 places with a center punch - around the diameter of the screw.

    I have not yet backed it out, I am hoping it is still in two pieces so that the inner one can still be screwed through into the spindle.

    Anybody seen one like this before, or is it some incorrect repair done along the way?

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by acrosteve View Post
    And, the collect alignment screw - I have the nose off of the spindle, and rather than the expected allen screw and lock, I have some sort of set screw in there with a straight screwdriver slot. This has been peened in place in 4 places with a center punch - around the diameter of the screw.

    I have not yet backed it out, I am hoping it is still in two pieces so that the inner one can still be screwed through into the spindle.

    Anybody seen one like this before, or is it some incorrect repair done along the way?

    Thanks
    The collet alignment screw is normally a dog point grub screw locked in place with a short hollow hex screw (I’ve seen square point grub screws too). It sounds like yours is a bodged repair. Best to clean it out and replace with the proper screws - they’re cheap!

    Mal

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    Thanks

    I also got the dial off. That part of it is threaded.

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    Looking better.

    20190424_173351.jpg

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    Looks good!

    My mill is much the same. The table is beat up and the ways are worn. Most of what I want to do doesn't require super precision. My plan is to clean it up and use it. If the day comes that I need it to hit the mark I'll either send it away or find one that's in better shape.

    K

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    Thanks!

    That all sounds very reasonable and similar to me.

    I got just a few odds and ends from H&W, and got the collet set screw fixed.

    But I have a new problem...
    I started working on the quill downfeed. It all seems to work, but not quite 100%.
    I found the clutch adjusted way to tight, so I loosened it a little bit. Next was the feed direction selector. It seems like it should engage and disengage a little bit better. That, coupled with the fact that the mill was reported to have problems in that area, i decided to dissasemble and inspect.

    I got as far as the 3/16 detent ball. It won't come out. I tried the compressed air trick, but it seems the shaft has been pened to hold the ball in the hole. The ball will move in and out and rotate slightly, but I can't get a grip on it to remove it.

    I am leaning towards taking a die grinder to the ball.


    Thoughts?

  14. #33
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    Alright, gonna try and type out what Barry is dictating to me.

    First we try and use a rare earth magnet to get the ball out. If that doesnt work, Barry uses a 953 Dremel grinding stone. He says you can get the tip right down in there. Obviously you will need to replace the ball but you will be able to get it out then.

    I saw him do it last week, seemed super easy.

    Jon
    H&W Machine Repair

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    Thanks for the tip - I forgot all about my dremel and the smaller bits available for it. Might even have that one already.

    Going to work on it this evening.

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    Well, that worked pretty well. I have the ball out, and tried a new 3/16 ball in the hole and am pleased with the fit. However, I have decided to go ahead and tear the head down for cleaning and inspection.

    There is some old grease on the misc downfeed gears, but it definitely is dryer than I would like. I have gotten down to the point that the reverse clutch rod and shaft are still in, and would like to go ahead and remove that assy also along with the other set of gears above it.

    In this very good Quill Housing video, Barry mentions that he will cover the removal of the remaining items at a later date(about 16:15).


    Looks like Bary has been kept busy with other things, but I need to know.

    Any tips?



    Also, the Overload Clutch Locknut seems rather tight on the threads. Not sure if this is normal. When I removed the setscrew, I can see some sort of brass down at the bottom of the hole. I assume this is to keep the setscrew from marring the threads. It is just tight, not seized or anything.
    Last edited by acrosteve; 04-30-2019 at 07:45 PM.

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    Actually, my head is different than the one Barry was using in the video. I will look around for some others. I like Barry's videos better than most.

    I have already found a few items missing, which is strange.
    In the previous video, at 2:22 - that set and lock screws are completely missing on my mill. As are the set and lock screws on the front of the gear housing.
    Also, I can't quite get the cradle assy to come out - there is a slight interference on the end where the selector handle is. Looks like I need to get the spindle out of the quill 1st. Which was coming out anyway.

  18. #37
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    Barry says it sucks that he didnt see this comment like 3 days ago... when he literally had to do what you are asking for (the part in the end of the video) and he could have made that video for ya.

    He also says that it is quite common for that set and lock screw to not be in the head at all. The set screw prevents the cradle from moving up, but it isnt common for the cradle to do that at all.

    If you would like, you can always call the shop and speak to Barry about how to get your cradle out.

    FYI, Barry is walking around the shop going "man that sucks" "that bums me out" because he literally just had a head torn apart like that. lol

    What else is different about your head?

    Jon
    H&W Machine Repair

  19. #38
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    Tell him thanks for thinking about me, but don't beat himself up about it.

    Different?
    Mostly, just the upper half - bull gear and rear gear assy are different - I have the step pulleys and he uses the VS head in his top half teardown videos. Also, the in/out engagement lever assy is different than his videos.


    The quill assemblies should be the same, right?
    But, the one thing that does not really make sense is that the cradle assy will not lift straight up and out. See these pics. It won't swing enough to clear the housing before it hits the splined spindle shaft. Looks like just a 1/16 or so. Perhaps I might just grind a little clearance in the quill housing at that spot.
    20190501_194529.jpg
    20190501_194516.jpg



    Thank him for the offer, but let me fumble around a little bit. I like the challenge, I guess. If I get real stumped, I will call.

  20. #39
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    So Barry said that you have a head that Moses probably used to build the Ark (my quote, not his). lol He said your head/cradle are probably from the 50s. The steel cradles are not shaped like that.

    You will have to get your spindle lower or out to get your cradle out.

    Jon

  21. #40
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    Well, I have not yet tackled the bull gears, but I was able to get the rest of the quill assy and spindle apart. I do not have plans to remove the bearings from the spindle.

    My spindle bearings are all Fafnir, and open, but someone had packed them with a tanish grease. The misc gears on the feed assembly had the remains of a greenish grease. All of it smelled a little funky - not a normal grease smell I am used to.


    I figure the spindle bearings get their lubrication from the oilers and should not have any grease, but what of the other gears/shafts? What should i use? Red lithium, or is it too tacky? Once everything is buttoned back up, there will not be any access.

    Thanks


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