In a Galaxy far far away there was a Bridgeport mill for sale
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    Default In a Galaxy far far away there was a Bridgeport mill for sale

    I apologize for the format but it seems I was too specific to be allowed to post.

    Once upon a time, a Long Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away there was a guy trying to buy his first mill. It was a good price for a series one with 2hp motor, DRO, adjustable speed head, and a Kurt vice. But the seller tried to levy sales tax to increase price at last minute and pull the Kurt vice out of the deal and also power down the unit before it could be scanned. But the buyer defeated these plans and heard the mill run.

    1)The switch had to be cycled on and off and on again to get the motor to run. It would hum not turning until the switch was cycled and then it would run.
    2)The head had a clacking or knocking sound coming from just under the top cover of the head. The seller said it was the belt making noise, and these aren't the droids you are looking for.
    3)Backlash front to back was 0.030" and the left to right backlash was a half turn of the crank, but the dial was obscured by interference, so an exact backlash reading could not be obtained.
    4)The table was all the way back, so the ways could be seen. There was 1.25" of scratches on the outside of the ways in the sweet spot area. All scrap marks were obliterated in these areas.
    5)The left right motor drive was not operational.

    So any opinions on how this would have turned out if the buyer had held his nose and bought the mill against his gut feeling to leave it where it sat?

    The would be buyer thanks you.

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    most likely the buyer would be doing a lot of work to this machine, as a buyer of all used machines that needed work to get our shop going, I have had to repair ways, replace motors, straighten lead screws, repair and weld castings, make gears, grind tapers, replace lots of bearings, etc..... if the price is good enough and you have the time it may be worth tackling. But if you have less than sufficient spare time, no other machines to help with repairs, and you can afford to wait, pass and keep running! machines have an incredible ability to hide problems until they are put to work. I knew most of the machines I bought needed work, they all do to some extent, but they usually come with extra surprises. Gut feelings rarely fail.

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    Any guess on the motor not running? I thought; what would stop two horses in their tracks? So maybe just the motor was going bad or could it have been something so worn that the motor was physically in a bind so much that it could not overcome the obstacle?

    The clacking sound was coming from 2J587 area and sounded like a bearing. Just did not think a bearing could cause a motor to bind, at least if it could then spin and sound like fairly light (but definitely significant) clacking/knocking noise.

    bearing.jpg

    If this bearing was a part I had to change, how hard and expensive would the job be? It looks like there are eight bearings in the spindle assembly. I know from drill press rebuilding this is not to be taken lightly. Is this something that can be done with modest shop facilities?

    Have 12" lathe, 20" drill press, 20" metal/wood Rockwell vertical band saw, 20 ton press, fair amount of Starrett devices and questionable skill on any given project. In other words not experienced in Bridgeport mill repair, but a lifetime of at least trying to apply what my aircraft mechanic dad taught me.

    So I am trying evaluate my decision not to buy and gauge what level of repair I should attempt. Like used cars, I too have never bought one (anything) that I did not immediately spend let's just say a lot on. Been repairing machine tools, wood and metal, for last few years, but a Bridgeport feels like a whole new level to me.

    Thanks,
    David

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    Just watched video from H&W Machine Repair and Rebuilding on installing a spindle rebuild kit, I can do that.

    But what about the motor humming then starting, do you think it was a bad motor?

    Thanks,
    David

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    probably a bad or weak winding on one of the fields, this can happen if somebody jerry rigged a way around three phase. Or just plain old motor. It could be re-wound by an electrical repair shop. But once again, more time and money.

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    Very helpful input, I appreciate you taking the time.

    Thanks,
    David

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    The motor hum is likely the motor drum switch not making contact consistently on at least one of the contacts.

    This could be repairable or require a new drum switch.

    The nonworking table drive motor could be a blown fuse, stuck limit switches, or a bad motor.

    I would follow your gut. Most reparable people would at least attempt to present something for sale in the best possible light. In other words, they would address blown fuses and the like issues.

    I can see a potential new owner having to spend another $1000.00 to repair some of the issues. Might not take all of that but you should be prepared for it in the budget.

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    Motor hum most probably is drum switch problems.
    Try wiggling the handle a little farther than the detent position in forward to see if it make contact.

    Is this problem in the forward direction only? Or intermittant in both directions.

    Bill

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    Personally I am torn between not just whether the motor or the drumswitch is the issue, but why is a mill in such condition trying to be sold and then the price raised (by the tax thing). If it was as simple as a drum switch, I believe the guy would have bought one because they are cheap. So it points me a little bit towards the motor or having weak 3phase power (+1 to hvnlymachining). However, I know the new Kraus and Namier drum switches specifically has an issue where if the screws are not all the way torqued down(even ones not touching a wire to the power or motor), it will act as if you have lost a leg. So +1 to hitandmiss and ziggy on the drum switch.

    100 thou backlash on left and right? Definitely excessive, but ontop of 30 on the Y, it also makes me wonder if something isnt broke or loose. What sort of rock was between the knee and saddle and saddle and table?

    What sort of powerfeed is on it? Possibly dirty motor, bad circuit board, or bad switches (again, +1 to the ziggly on his assessment).

    Depending on cost, you have alot of ammo to use on why you are going to offer what you are going to offer. This does not at all sound like a "great condition" machine as 99.9% of sellers describe their mills as.

    Jon
    H&W Machine Repair

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    Quote Originally Posted by medavido View Post
    I apologize for the format but it seems I was too specific to be allowed to post.

    Once upon a time, a Long Long Time Ago in a Galaxy Far Far Away there was a guy trying to buy his first mill. It was a good price for a series one with 2hp motor, DRO, adjustable speed head, and a Kurt vice. But the seller tried to levy sales tax to increase price at last minute and pull the Kurt vice out of the deal and also power down the unit before it could be scanned. But the buyer defeated these plans and heard the mill run.

    1)The switch had to be cycled on and off and on again to get the motor to run. It would hum not turning until the switch was cycled and then it would run.
    2)The head had a clacking or knocking sound coming from just under the top cover of the head. The seller said it was the belt making noise, and these aren't the droids you are looking for.
    3)Backlash front to back was 0.030" and the left to right backlash was a half turn of the crank, but the dial was obscured by interference, so an exact backlash reading could not be obtained.
    4)The table was all the way back, so the ways could be seen. There was 1.25" of scratches on the outside of the ways in the sweet spot area. All scrap marks were obliterated in these areas.
    5)The left right motor drive was not operational.

    So any opinions on how this would have turned out if the buyer had held his nose and bought the mill against his gut feeling to leave it where it sat?

    The would be buyer thanks you.
    It's still only a Series one at the end of the day, and sore tired in several respects?

    Trust the gut. Start a new search.

    Take on-board that besides several BP-like mills, SAME size range as might not cost the Earth - partly because they don't have the BP name, there exists another not terribly heavier or harder to transport field with stronger that R8 noses.

    A 40-taper would be a huge gain, as it would have a stiffer and stronger machine associated with it in all respects. Better integration of power traverse is also more likely with those. My Quartet has a separate 3/4 HP motor just for powering the knee. The rest is done with clutches and gears. Table is probably 50% deeper in vertical height than that of a BP, so sag is not the same challenge, etc.

    There are some rather decent Taiwanese mills out there. Not BP "copies" so much as they are upgrades and improvements off the back of a good deal more Iron in their diet when they were puppies.

    Waay easier, and usually faster as well to do light work on a medium mill than medium work on a light mill.

    2CW, but if a BP is what you insist on, get one that has already had a professional rebuild and has not yet "used it all up, again, already", needing ANOTHER rebuild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    I
    Trust the gut. Start a new search.
    Yes but for a different reason. The seller was being obnoxious. That's a total
    deal-breaker - walk away time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Yes but for a different reason. The seller was being obnoxious. That's a total
    deal-breaker - walk away time.
    More than just obnoxious, but yes. Beat feet for damned sure. Even if the BUYER was part of the trigger for that behaviour, the deal is soured already.

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    I have read and re-read all the comments. I will be thinking about them for a while. The main take away I have for now is I need to add to my mill fund and aim a bit higher. There were some things that would cost, but could be repaired, but the overall wear was prohibitive.

    The other somewhat constant reply was don't do business with someone who jerks me around. The night before I left, the owners lackey called to tell me the thing about charging tax. I was like ya OK whatever. When arrived at the sale, there was a stiff old no name vise sitting there and the employee said "well the big boss wants to keep the set of two Kurt vises, so that is your vise". I already have a nice Bridgeport vice on a 360 base, but it was the principal of the thing, and the $300 I planned on using, after I sold it, to fix the table feed motor.

    Anyway, the next day after I looked at the mill, it was for sale again for $2500 - no vise.

    So I need to read, save and get ready for the next try. Thanks for the help, because of the help this has been valuable learning experience.

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    Well, you are absolutely doing the right thing in my mind. Did you ever meet the "boss"? If so you should of told him where he could shove that no name vise along with his mill. You'll find a much better mill and for maybe a little more money with tooling. Good luck on your hunt!

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    As a person who rehabilitated a large Webb Mill from CNC back to manual and replaced all of the missing parts, I'd say you should run away from this deal, even without considering the Luddite seller.

    I paid $1.200 and spent at least that much more for parts. to get my machine going. A new Kurt vise cost another $400 on sale from ENCO. All is well now for close to ten years, but there were a lot of hurt knuckles along the way.
    Yes, run away and quickly after sharing a few words with the goon seller. JMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by medavido View Post
    So I need to read, save and get ready for the next try. Thanks for the help, because of the help this has been valuable learning experience.
    Cost you a LOT less than the amount a 55-60 year younger "me" invested over a period of five years.... in learning how to play poker. And failing at it.

    That, too, was a valuable learning experience. Prolly wudda bought a NEW BirdPort at the time, actually, had I "played my cards...." ...not at all.



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