What's new
What's new

Hardinge Cataract Bench lathe

jrjr

Plastic
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Hi all,
I bought this lathe and got it home over the weekend. Everything turns freely but hasn't been used in quite a few years. I had to clean up the bed to get the head stock, cross slide and tail stock to move freely but that is done and everything is good so far. I lubed up the tail stock and cross slide but haven't touched the head stock yet. It does turn smoothly though so it shouldn't be much of an issue. I see an oil port on the front bearing block at the bottom. Not too sure what that is for. How does one lube the bearings on these? Is this one that has the greased rear bearing?
I'm also curious what the line is engraved in the bed rails just in front of the head stock. You can see it in one ofthe pics
Here's some pics....
1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg5 line.jpg
 
It measured 4 1/2" from chuck center to the bed rails.
Does this make it a 9"?
This number under the chuck in the head stock casting is 49-16975
How do I determine the age from this?
 
The 49-16975 means it takes 4C collets and the swing is 9 inches. The headstock, and probably tailstock, were made in 1942 in Elmira, NY. The bed was made in Chicago before 1930, and yes, they fit together fine. The conical dials on the slide rest mean it was built before around 1936. If it says Chicago on it, then it was built before 1930. The line on the bed could be a hacksaw accident, although those are usually less regular and likely to be in multiples.

No oil cup indicates a greased bearing and the oil cup would want some spindle oil.

The spindle nose might have a 1 5/8-10 thread or it might have the No. 4 size 4 degree taper. If you have one screw head on the side of the chuck where it fits on the spindle nose, you have the taper nose. Either way, you will not find new chucks or other spindle tooling for sale. I have a few used ones, but they are scarce.

The 4C collets are not terribly hard to get unless you want a full set. Collet drawbars are hard to get. My first Hardinge lathe had no drawbar and I had to make one from scratch.

Larry
 
The 49-16975 means it takes 4C collets and the swing is 9 inches. The headstock, and probably tailstock, were made in 1942 in Elmira, NY. The bed was made in Chicago before 1930, and yes, they fit together fine. The conical dials on the slide rest mean it was built before around 1936. If it says Chicago on it, then it was built before 1930. The line on the bed could be a hacksaw accident, although those are usually less regular and likely to be in multiples.

No oil cup indicates a greased bearing and the oil cup would want some spindle oil.



Larry

Thanks for the reply Larry!
Since the headstock is made in 42, would that mean it has roller bearings, or maybe ball bearings rather than the plain bearings?

The spindle nose might have a 1 5/8-10 thread or it might have the No. 4 size 4 degree taper. If you have one screw head on the side of the chuck where it fits on the spindle nose, you have the taper nose. Either way, you will not find new chucks or other spindle tooling for sale. I have a few used ones, but they are scarce.

The 4C collets are not terribly hard to get unless you want a full set. Collet drawbars are hard to get. My first Hardinge lathe had no drawbar and I had to make one from scratch.
[/COLOR]
Larry
I did get one 1/2" collet with it. There is no screw head on the side of the chuck so it must be the taper fit. How much force is required to get the chuck off? I tapped lightly on it but it didn't budge. Yep, I'm a noob to lathes. :-)
 
"No oil cup indicates a greased bearing and the oil cup would want some spindle oil."

This is a ball bearing headstock - it has a pair of angular contact ball bearings in the front, and a single
radial ball bearing at the rear.

Hardinge and Elgin experiment with various types of lube for these headstocks - I have one that has two
oil cups, one on the front and one on the rear bearings. The height of the oil cup is configured so the oil
overflows the outer bearing race and gets to the balls inside the bearing.

Be sure there is oil in that oil cup when running the machine. You might also check the spindle for
axial play - if the bearings are in good shape the play will be basically zero which means the preload for the
angular contact pair is good. Any axial play means the bearings are worn and the preload is gone.

New bearings are expensive but still available.
 
I find no axial play in the bearings. Any tips on getting the chuck removed? I really don't want to break something..... I have wacked it quite briskly with a dead blow plastic hammer to no avail
 
I find no axial play in the bearings. Any tips on getting the chuck removed? I really don't want to break something..... I have wacked it quite briskly with a dead blow plastic hammer to no avail

First, make a steel pin that goes through the upper hole in the headstock in front of the left bearing and fits in one of the four larger holes in the pulley. That is how you lock the spindle from turning. Then try to unscrew the chuck using a bar passed between the jaws. Hammers are hard on ball bearings.

The lower hole is for a pin that fits in the row of 60 smaller holes in the pulley, for indexing.

Larry

DSC01340.jpg
 
Mine actually came with the lock pin. I will give your suggestion a try. Thanks!
 
Yes that did it. With the locking pin in place I put rotational pressure on the jaws and some light taps on the chuck. The chuck threaded off. No set screw and no place for one either.
From the earlier description I was thinking that since there was no set screw that it must have been a tapered fit. Not the case this time! Anyway, it's off and my learning advances. Thanks
 
Any idea where one might acquire a 5c collet closet for this? I'm in the market

This what? That headstock in post #1, as mentioned previously, takes 4C collets. So 5C collets with or without a closet will not fit the headstock. You could try to find a 5C headstock or a spare 5C spindle to install in a 4C ball bearing headstock, but they are very scarce.

Larry
 
Your headstock, as mentioned previously, takes 4C collets. So 5C collets with or without a closet will not fit the headstock. You could try to find a 5C headstock or a spare 5C spindle to install in your headstock, but they are very scarce.

Larry

Yea, that wasn't me asking, it was someone else.
Since I am back here though, is it ok to reverse the lathe with the chuck in place since it is threaded on?
Also, would you happen to know the safe maximum rpm for these headstocks?
 
The original literature for the 1940's ball bearing open cone pulley lathe says the standard max speed is 2500 RPM. Jaw chucks have their own max safe speed, but I see that warning, with the number, only on fairly new chucks or in current catalogs.

I only run the taper spindle nose lathes, so I cannot answer your threaded nose reversing question.

Larry
 
Most of those old plain turning lathes used a grease cup to supply the rear bearing, although many times these were replaced with a zerk fitting by later owners. With the grease cup you put a blob in the cup and periodically turn the knurled cap to inject more grease. When the cap goes down too far you unscrew it and add more grease. Being more convenient to use regularly than a grease gun means the lathe is more likely to be kept greased.

PS: Most of those old lathes used a drawbar rather than a collet closer when used with collets. Usually it's just a tube with internal threads and a hub with a wooden hand wheel at the other. The wood is nice because it's easy to slow the lathe to a stop after switching off the power.
 
Most of those old plain turning lathes used a grease cup to supply the rear bearing, although many times these were replaced with a zerk fitting by later owners. With the grease cup you put a blob in the cup and periodically turn the knurled cap to inject more grease. When the cap goes down too far you unscrew it and add more grease. Being more convenient to use regularly than a grease gun means the lathe is more likely to be kept greased.

PS: Most of those old lathes used a drawbar rather than a collet closer when used with collets. Usually it's just a tube with internal threads and a hub with a wooden hand wheel at the other. The wood is nice because it's easy to slow the lathe to a stop after switching off the power.

Mine has the drawbar with the wooden hand wheel. Works good.
I sure would like to get some new grease in the rear bearing but I see no zerk or grease cup as you describe. In that case, I guess I would have to disassemble it to some point to get grease in there. Any suggestions on procedure without disrupting the preload and such?
 
Mine has the drawbar with the wooden hand wheel. Works good.
I sure would like to get some new grease in the rear bearing but I see no zerk or grease cup as you describe. In that case, I guess I would have to disassemble it to some point to get grease in there. Any suggestions on procedure without disrupting the preload and such?

Is there any sign of a small boss on the top of the casting? If so there might be a plug buried under paint or crud. If there is no boss I have no idea how it was meant to be greased.

Edit: I took another look at your photos and there are no bosses on top (as with my W.W.) but in photo 2 it looks like an oil cup mounted low in front and there appears to be a hole lower down near the rear of the spindle. I wonder if that intersects with a hole drilled from underneath and then plugged. In that case I believe it may have been meant for an old fashioned grease gun of the type that has a tapered tip you jam in the hole.
 
Closer is not an exact term. Clarify what you want and what you want it to fit. I may have it.

Larry

Shared album - Tom T - Google Photos

I'm new to the forum, so I'm not sure how to post pics yet, but the pictures in the link are of the new lathe I recently purchased. I've been having a difficult time finding info on it and the guy that sold it to me said it's a Hardinge Cataract 9". He has it set up to take 5C collets

The pictures that show the brochure info were dug up for me by someone on another forum. One of those pics shows a collet closer for the lathe. Is it possible to to get this closer that fits 5C collets?
 
Mine has the drawbar with the wooden hand wheel. Works good.
I sure would like to get some new grease in the rear bearing but I see no zerk or grease cup as you describe. In that case, I guess I would have to disassemble it to some point to get grease in there. Any suggestions on procedure without disrupting the preload and such?

As an aside,putting a zerk fitting on your front bearing would be a bad idea. The BB headstock I rebuilt had this done to it, and the grease does not really get properly into the balls
when this is done.

These headstocks come apart pretty easily, the preload is built into the front bearing pair, when the outer and inner races are clamped up. The rear bearing is basically a snug
slip fit into the rear bore of the headstock, and is not restrained in the axial direction - it is designed to float in that direction.
 








 
Back
Top