Hardinge DSM-59 Turret - When did 5/8 shank become 3/4
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    Default Hardinge DSM-59 Turret - When did 5/8 shank become 3/4

    Curious when Hardinge switched from 5/8 shank to 3/4 shank for its turret...or was 3/4 some sort of upgrade option?

    Is there a serial number list for the DV/DSM floating around? I think I read a post where Larry said he had something up to 1966.

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    I believe 3/4” was simply an option. That’s what the one I happen to have is.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    I don't even think it was an "upgrade". Just a different choice. Most of the tooling that fits that size lathe/turret is 5/8" shank. OTOH I carefully set up and bored one hole in one of my turrets to 3/4" so it could be used (initially) for Slater rotary broaches. Since, there has accrued some othe oddball 3/4" shank tooling.

    If you want one, is just watch, and don't pull the trigger until a 3/4" hole turret with sleeves comes up. They seem to be much less common.

    Good luck!
    smt

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    I have a 1980 DSM59 catalog and price list. The pictures and text only show 5/8" turret bores (no bushings) and tooling. I also have a 1991 DSM59 catalog. The turret picture is captioned, "5/8" bushed turret shown." It also simply says that the turret takes 5/8" shank tooling. I suspect the bushings can be removed and 3/4" tools used, but I don't know.

    The 1990 tooling catalog lists the DSM59 turret in two versions. The DV8-5/8 has six 5/8" bore hardened and ground bushings that can be replaced if damaged. The DV8-3/4 has 3/4" holes bored in the turret. Maybe the two turrets are identical except for the six bushings, but the catalog does not say.

    So, the bushed turret was introduced between 1980 and 1990, and at least some of the 5/8 shank tooling also became available with 3/4 shanks.

    Larry

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    Thank you all for the information.

    It seems like 5/8 shank is the most common for B&S screw machine style tooling. Was there a popular manufacturer of screw machines that standardized on 3/4? (If it was common maybe Hardinge got a lot of requests for 3/4 bores so "all my existing tooling will fit")

    I really like the idea of a "replace if damaged" bushing.

    Larry - what was the cost of a DSM 59 in 1980?

    Stephen - I found your post about making that modification, it was an interesting read.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smrtman5 View Post
    It seems like 5/8 shank is the most common for B&S screw machine style tooling. Was there a popular manufacturer of screw machines that standardized on 3/4?
    B&S #00 screw machine used 5/8" shanks, B&S #0 screw machine used 3/4" shanks, B&S #2 screw machine used 1" shanks.

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    I only have one price list, dated November 15, 1983, for the DSM59 that has the machine prices added with a typewriter by the Chicago dealer where I got my sales literature in the 1980's. The standard DSM59 was $8950. The R versions and the B&S 21 collet versions were more. Hardinge printed prices for all the optional equipment on the price lists and left the machine prices blank so the dealer could quote a current price.

    I bought my Clausing 5914 lathe in 1985 from a shop that had added an Enco turret as an accessory. They threw in a pile of 3/4 and 1" shank turret tooling and adapter sleeves to let the 1" turret bores hold 3/4 and 5/8 tooling. I think I only have one Hardinge tool, a TT tap holder, that has a 3/4 shank. They are pretty scarce.

    Brown & Sharpe screw machines were about as popular as they get, so there is a lot of tooling available for all sizes, not all of it made by B&S.

    My Levin and Gilman turrets have 1/2" bores and that size turret tooling is very rare. I have been able to turn some 5/8 shanks with thick walls down to 1/2, a 5/16D Geometric die head for instance. Drill chuck arbors with 1/2 shanks are easy to get.

    Larry

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    B&S #00 screw machine used 5/8" shanks, B&S #0 screw machine used 3/4" shanks, B&S #2 screw machine used 1" shanks.
    I didnt know that.

    The R was the step pulley version for faster Forward/Reverse changes? Interesting that version was more expensive. Seems like a less complicated setup. I guess one was paying for speed.

    Did Hardinge halt production on the DV/DSM/HC/HSL around the same time as the HLV? (2013ish was it?)

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    hardinge-dsm-turret-bushing.jpg

    My new DSM-59 arrived today. I was looking at the turret and, it is indeed 3/4, but three of the bores have 5/8 bushings. They are not HDB style bushings. I gave them a bit of a tug and they dont seem to want to come out. Is there some trick I am missing? For now, Ill just leave them alone, as I will probably need to use them and do not want to damage them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smrtman5 View Post
    three of the bores have 5/8 bushings. They are not HDB style bushings. I gave them a bit of a tug and they dont seem to want to come out. Is there some trick I am missing?
    You definitely need to remove the split cotters (the clamps for tool shanks) first. Once you get those out of the way, IIRC the bushings are a light press fit.

    You probably need to use a slide hammer with the appropriate size of pilot bearing puller to get the bushings out. Liberal soaking with a good penetrating oil the day before would be good. Pilot bearing pullers are slotted cylinders with a lip on the far end. When collapsed, you can insert one through the bushing from the outer end. Then expand the puller, engaging the inner end of the bushing with the puller's lip. Then pop the bushing out with the slide hammer.

    It would be prudent to remove the turret from the ram before slide hammering, to avoid damaging the large bearing for the turret. Pulling the turret is no big deal. Pop off the cap for the central stud; it's an easy press fit. Then there's a lock nut and a pre-tensioning nut on the stud. IIRC, a shop-made spanner with 1/8" diameter pins, 7/16" on center, with a hole between them to allow the stud to pass through will deal with the pre-tensioning nut. [Added in edit, maybe the pins are 1/16" diameter? Pretty sure about the 7/16" on center.]

    If you don't like the slide hammer approach, it might be possible to wedge the bushings out using their lips, but that seems even more prone to turret damage than the s.hammer.

    You may well end up shop-making another three bushings, depending on what turret tooling you end up with.
    Last edited by sfriedberg; 09-17-2021 at 06:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfriedberg View Post
    You definitely need to remove the split cotters (the clamps for tool shanks) first. Once you get those out of the way, IIRC the bushings are a light press fit.
    Glad I paused and asked before applying force. I see the split cotters through the bushings, so now it makes sense that they have to come out first.

    Agreed, no slide hammering on the lathe!

    You may well end up shop-making another three bushings, depending on what turret tooling you end up with.
    I agree. I have a few tools that I collected in anticipation of getting the machine, all are 5/8 shank. I was thinking the bushings to use were HDB style, It didnt even occur to me to make a bushing with a light press with a slot for the split cotter to hold the tool shank.


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