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Hardinge HC Chucker variable RPM quit

TSPCalifornian

Plastic
Joined
Jan 9, 2020
Just got a new to me Hardinge HC chucker complete, and stock. Wired up a rotary phase converter to a 2hp idler motor.

Everything worked at the start. I fired it up again and put it in forward gear, turned the rpm knob for a higher speed and it felt like it was having trouble and something tripped. It won't change speeds to a higher rpm. Just one speed in forward or reverse.

I need to find a manual, but is there circuit breakers or..? Anyone know how these work?
 
This is a timely question, yesterday mine started smoking from the recently inoperative speed control motor. I know for a fact we had 242v between pairs and now we have 213. I will be watching
 
First question to ask on a new installation is the spindle turning the correct direction. If not the varidrive yoke will hit the wrong limit switch and jam up. If the spindle is turning the wrong direction change the first 2 wires on top of the input. DO NOT change the 2 underneath!
Speaking of those first 2 wires your native 240 is hooked up to them and your added phase is going to the third connection? That would be another source of problems if not correct.
 
First question to ask on a new installation is the spindle turning the correct direction. If not the varidrive yoke will hit the wrong limit switch and jam up. If the spindle is turning the wrong direction change the first 2 wires on top of the input. DO NOT change the 2 underneath!
Speaking of those first 2 wires your native 240 is hooked up to them and your added phase is going to the third connection? That would be another source of problems if not correct.

Yep... I think that's what's going on.

The spindle rotation is running in the wrong direction.

Once I have the correct rotation wired, how do I unjam the limit switch?
 
"Just got...?"

Surely DO need a manual! Wise to have read it before ever powering the b**h up!
ANYTHING "new to me".

Many among us get aholt of the Manual FIRST. And don't even buy if we are not satisfied.

:)

Meanwhile.. most obvious question first..

Was it being run on 2XX 3-P or 4XX 3-P where it used to live?

And if it needed changed-over, have you done that already?

Or not.

This is my (over 10 years) 6th Hardinge chucker- 4 omniturn CNC's and none came with a manual... lol
 
Yep... I think that's what's going on.

The spindle rotation is running in the wrong direction.

Once I have the correct rotation wired, how do I unjam the limit switch?

Turn the jackscrew by hand until it is closer to the middle.
Put your speed pots on the control towards the middle of their range as well.

If you can’t turn it by hand, put 2-3 wraps of cloth around it and use a channel lock to gently persuade it.
Be certain you are going in the right direction.

Once it is close to the center, set the pots to center and try powering once you’ve fixed your phasing/direction problem.
 
First question to ask on a new installation is the spindle turning the correct direction. If not the varidrive yoke will hit the wrong limit switch and jam up. If the spindle is turning the wrong direction change the first 2 wires on top of the input. DO NOT change the 2 underneath!
Speaking of those first 2 wires your native 240 is hooked up to them and your added phase is going to the third connection? That would be another source of problems if not correct.
Where is your generated leg?
 
Helluva lot more than 6 over 10 years, but the wimmin' with whom I've been privileged to share a blanket may have now and then "come with a manual" - just not with written documentation.

One would suspect.. that you'd have a fair-decent "notebook" of your own devising by this late stage ...and could be GIVING advice rather than seeking it?

:)

Oh I am so the wrong guy to be giving information out about wimmin's... you have no idea.. lol And- If I had the same luck with women that I have with Hardinge, I would be a happy man.. hhaha
 
Turn the jackscrew by hand until it is closer to the middle.
Put your speed pots on the control towards the middle of their range as well.

If you can’t turn it by hand, put 2-3 wraps of cloth around it and use a channel lock to gently persuade it.
Be certain you are going in the right direction.

Once it is close to the center, set the pots to center and try powering once you’ve fixed your phasing/direction problem.

I fixed the problem on another guy's lathe when I flew out to California to look at it, about 25 years ago. Normally you do not change the varidrive speed without the spindle running. I remember turning the screw as Mr. Seguin mentioned. Seems like it was jammed and took a little persuasion. If turn it more than a turn the spindle ought to be running, just keep you fingers out of the moving parts. The problem comes from the yoke hitting the wrong micro switch so you just need to turn it far enough the switch is no longer contacted.
 
I fixed the problem on another guy's lathe when I flew out to California to look at it, about 25 years ago. Normally you do not change the varidrive speed without the spindle running. I remember turning the screw as Mr. Seguin mentioned. Seems like it was jammed and took a little persuasion. If turn it more than a turn the spindle ought to be running, just keep you fingers out of the moving parts. The problem comes from the yoke hitting the wrong micro switch so you just need to turn it far enough the switch is no longer contacted.

Well I have the rotation fixed. I really screwed up with this, all because of playing with it before I checked rotation.

The levers labels are worn off and without a manual I'm just guessing at all of this. There's the jack screw and mentioner behind the front door of the machine. Is this the jack screw you're talking about?

Then there's the what I believe to be the upper drive lever that must be for speed range. It has a rod that points left into the cabinet to a camshaft. The camshaft has switches to it. Is this the limit?

I've got to take some pics...
 
This is my (over 10 years) 6th Hardinge chucker- 4 omniturn CNC's and none came with a manual... lol

Well I have the rotation fixed. I really screwed up with this, all because of playing with it before I checked rotation.

The levers labels are worn off and without a manual I'm just guessing at all of this. There's the jack screw and mentioner behind the front door of the machine. Is this the jack screw you're talking about?

Then there's the what I believe to be the upper drive lever that must be for speed range. It has a rod that points left into the cabinet to a camshaft. The camshaft has switches to it. Is this the limit?

I've got to take some pics...

Is this one considerably different than the 6 others you have of have had?
 
I have an Tsugami HC and it is completely different than Hardinge on the varidrive. Other parts are interchangeable. Looked in the cabinet of my HLV-H and believe it to be close to your HC. Looks like the limit switches are in the enclosed box with the rod and adjustable stops on it. To see the switches you would have to pull the cover off. Do not mess with them. If the yoke went in the up direction you could have the nut off the screw in which case you may need to take the pressure off and restart the thread. If the yoke went down it may be jammed into the motor limit case underneath. If not jammed or off the nut turn the screw towards the middle of the travel. Those switches will do their thing if not broken.
Yes those rods and cams will be speed selection and Forward-off-reverse. Been forty years since I ran an Hardinge HC and probably had little need to look inside as they never broke, different story with the Tsugamis.
 
I'm not sure what needs to be adjusted. Can't get ahold of a manual download, only hard copies available at the moment.

Are the adjustments spoken on the cam for the speed range lever where there's the switches? Are those the limit switches?

Or does an adjustment need to be done on the shaft and yoke for the belt tension shown from the front door?

HC Overall.jpg



HC Cab.jpg



HC Cam.jpg



HC Cam.jpg



HC Yoke.jpg
 
Photo #5 shows the yoke with the box that has the limit switches underneath. I am fairly sure that your yoke dived to the low speed on the belt drive. Going out on a limb here because your set up is different than my HLV-H. There should be a hole in that yoke and a rod goes through it. The rod will have some adjustable stops on it that will contact the yoke in the extreme ends of the travel. Your limit switches should be in the box with the seven screws retaining the cover. The motor that drives that screw is probably behind or below the box (mine is to the side). All said you need to turn that screw by hand and lift the yoke up till it operates normally. I see some daylight between the yoke and the limit switch box so maybe it is not jammed. you may need to turn it far enough that the spindle needs to run to keep the belts from jamming. Be careful! I would not bother opening that box, just get the yoke up about an 1/2 inch from where it is at and try the speed change knob.
 
Woke up in the middle of he night thinking about this. The HC is way different than the HLV-H. The HC sets one speed for the high range and a low speed for the middle position. It "remembers" those speeds as you shift back and forth between them. So each has limits switches and each could now be on the out of range, I think. In the low range the motor shifts speed electrically with no call for varidrive movement. I think that is where you have to start.

Assuming that the yoke is on the bottom of the speed range, I would try get it off the bottom by running the spindle and turning it even more off the bottom. Get it towards the middle of the range when you have control of it. When you shift the lever then middle position it could be out of whack. I would have my hand on the speed changing knob (up or down knob) and be ready to run it up or down if it tries to go for an extreme. When you get it to the middle the do it again in the high range.

Been 40 years since I have touched a HC. Mr. Seguin may be correct that it has 2 pots that indicate speed. If so his advice would be correct. My Tsugami has a simpler and better system for setting the 2nd and 3rd speeds. All else on the Tsugami was way poorer. If your HC has one or 2 knobs that center by then selves for adjusting the speeds, then the last paragraph will be relevant. If they are pots and stay put when you choose a speed it will be a piece of cake.

Your electrical cabinet is way more complicated than an HLV-H or a Tsugami HC.
 
Here's the pdf link on Babinmachine.com if anyone needs it:

http://www.babinmachine.com/PDF/Hardinge HC maintenance manual, new style.pdf

This is my model machine maintenance manual which is great!

The Variable Speed limit switch adjustment is on page 66/100.

Just know your situation is different than the normal adjustment if parts are replaced and things need to be dialed back in. You over traveled because the phase reversal made the machine look for the wrong limit switch. Get the speeds back in the middle by Seguin's suggestion. The manual does show 2 pots for the HC (the HLV-H uses a return to center switch) his is the right method to unjam it. If the accident messed up the adjustment then you will need to follow the procedure in the manual to fix that issue.
 
SUCCESS!! Got it working. Thankfully it was not jammed and now I can calibrate the rpm's to the dials by turning the jack screw by hand.

Thanks everybody..! Now back to work for me...
 
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