Hardinge HC Refurb Project, Turret Doesn't Index, Varispeed doesn't adjust
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  1. #1
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    Default Hardinge HC Refurb Project, Turret Doesn't Index, Varispeed doesn't adjust

    I just bought a Hardinge HC to work on as a refurbishing project with my kids.

    Problem 1:
    The turret seems to be stuck and not index. In this video you can see into the turret gearbox (cover removed):

    Non-functioning Turret Indexing on a Super Precision Hardinge HC Chucker Lathe - YouTube

    Recommendations? I'm going to look more closely at the gearbox action and then take apart the turret if need be.
    Anybody have a video of their functioning gearbox?


    Problem 2:
    The Variable speed drive doesn't seem to adjust. The jackscrew just stays in place and does not rotate to move the nut up/down in response to turning the speed adjust controls up top. I can turn the jackscrew by hand. Video:

    Non-Functioning Varispeed on Hardinge Super Precision HC Chucker Lathe - YouTube


    Should I try racking the nut most (all?) of the way to the top?

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    I ran a manual chucker many moons ago never repaired it back then as it was fairly new and nothing had broken on it.

    That said one thing to check on the #2 problem: Is your spindle running the correct direction when you start when the lever is "forward"? If not an HLV-H will got to the extreme and lock up. After correcting the spindle direction by switching L1 and L2 in the electrical box, you turn the screw by hand till the micro limit switch is not longer contacted then it will act normally. I assume an HC would do the same if the spindle motor phase is incorrect and a speed change is attempted.
    These machines were so reliable few of us ever had to fix them.

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    Problem 2:
    You should remove the cover on the box below the jack screw. There are two limit switches inside which can cause your problem. I have been locked up on the bottom end a few times and all I had to do was readjust the position of the low speed limit switch.

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    Just some thoughts on problem #1. looked at the video again and think a key or pin that drives that gear must be sheared or removed. Back in the day when I ran chuckers I spent 95% of my time on the Tsugamis, the lead man got to run the Hardinge. It did have the auto index that indexed the turret one step forward, the Tsugamis did not. Most times we did not use a full turret with all the stations tooled up. The Tsugamis were actually easier to run in that regard because it was easier to skip stations or index backwards. If it is too expensive or hard to fix you might consider removing enough stuff to disable the feature.

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    A while back I started a thread to cover troubleshooting #2:

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...g-info-347247/


    Below the start/stop buttons on the side of the electrical cabinet is a selector switch.
    It should be labeled "speed change" and "on and off" it must be on.

    Inside the box below the nut is a limit switch, it should not be operated.
    It looks like you may be at the low speed limit and stuck there.

    If you are still having problems:

    Please post a picture of the lower right corner, about 12" square, of the inside of the electrical cabinet. And a sharp photo of the nameplate on the door, and a picture of the inside of the box below the nut.

    Bill

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    Default Hardinge HC Refurb Project, Turret Doesn't Index, Varispeed doesn't adjust

    Quote Originally Posted by hitandmiss View Post
    A while back I started a thread to cover troubleshooting #2:

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...g-info-347247/


    Below the start/stop buttons on the side of the electrical cabinet is a selector switch.
    It should be labeled "speed change" and "on and off" it must be on.

    Inside the box below the nut is a limit switch, it should not be operated.
    It looks like you may be at the low speed limit and stuck there.

    If you are still having problems:

    Please post a picture of the lower right corner, about 12" square, of the inside of the electrical cabinet. And a sharp photo of the nameplate on the door, and a picture of the inside of the box below the nut.

    Bill
    Pictures of the Hardinge HC, including the electrical cabinet.



    Hardinge HC Lathe - Google Photos


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Good pictures.


    Across the center of the electrical cabinet are 3 groups of 3 overload relays.
    They are to the left of the toggle switch.
    On the lower right of each one is a black rectangular reset button.
    Push each one, they should all travel about the same amount. The center group of 3 may be the set for the speed control motor. One in this group may not travel very far, if it does, push a bit harder to reset it.

    Your speed change is the toggle switch inside the electrical cabinet.

    Inside the box below the nut is a limit switch, maybe 2, it (they) should not be operated.
    It looks like you may be at the low speed limit and stuck there.

    If needbe post a pix of the inside of the speed change box by the motor.

    Bill

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    Thanks for the tips!
    I need to string 230V power to my garage.
    Can an HC/HCT be run off a PhaseAMatic static phase converter?

    I used to use a rotary phase converter which worked well.

    Thanks!

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    So, what paint and color do I need to repaint or cover up the chips?
    Somebody told me that Hardinge uses Sherwin Williams Polane paint.

    Bondo as the filler?
    How are you removing oils to get down to a dry, paintable surface?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Can an HC/HCT be run off a PhaseAMatic static phase converter?

    I used to use a rotary phase converter which worked well.

    Thanks!
    In the evolution of man pictures, from left to right:

    1. Static phase converter
    2. Pre-built bare bones RPC panel with cheap parts.
    3. Self built RPC with quality parts and motor protection.
    4. VFD.
    5. Phase Perfect.
    6. Real three phase.

    Why start all over at #1.
    Last edited by rons; 05-30-2018 at 04:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    So, what paint and color do I need to repaint or cover up the chips?
    Somebody told me that Hardinge uses Sherwin Williams Polane paint.

    Bondo as the filler?
    How are you removing oils to get down to a dry, paintable surface?
    Go to Napa Auto Parts 1440 North 4th street. DuPoint industrial coatings.

    I use their Dynatron two part filler.

    Scrape/sand off the contaminated paint to get a clean surface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    In the evolution of man pictures, from left to right:
    1. Static phase converter
    2. Pre-built bare bones RPC panel with cheap parts.
    3. Self built RPC with quality parts and motor protection.
    4. VFD.
    5. Phase Perfect.
    6. Real three phase.

    Why start all over at #1.
    Thanks for the reply!

    #1 is inexpensive... :-)
    I already have a static phase converter.
    However, I’m not sure if it will work with the Hardinge HC/HCT.

    Will a VFD actually work with the HC?

    Phase Perfect looks cool, but very expensive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    I already have a static phase converter.
    However, I’m not sure if it will work with the Hardinge HC/HCT.

    Will a VFD actually work with the HC?
    What is the motor, 1hp? I use a rotary.

    Why somebody uses a adjustable VFD when the Hardinge machine has variable speed pulley arrangement, I don't know. If I had to do it, I would leave the VFD at 60Hhz and use the machine controls. The machine control cabinet has electrical parts that are specified to work at 60Hz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    What is the motor, 1hp? I use a rotary.

    Why somebody uses a adjustable VFD when the Hardinge machine has variable speed pulley arrangement, I don't know. If I had to do it, I would leave the VFD at 60Hhz and use the machine controls. The machine control cabinet has electrical parts that are specified to work at 60Hz.
    It is a 1.5HP.
    Right. I know that VFDs are set up for controlling motors, but there's a whole pile of stuff in that electrical cabinet that isn't "motors" :-)

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    Made my living on one of those for years. No help with the indexing, never had that problem. Did notice that on your video that you didn't pull the indexing lever far enough down to engage the indexing function. Will it pull all the way down? FYI there is a lever position where the turret will spin by hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Right. I know that VFDs are set up for controlling motors, but there's a whole pile of stuff in that electrical cabinet that isn't "motors" :-)
    Use the static converter until you build yourself a rotary converter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sean9c View Post
    Made my living on one of those for years. No help with the indexing, never had that problem. Did notice that on your video that you didn't pull the indexing lever far enough down to engage the indexing function. Will it pull all the way down? FYI there is a lever position where the turret will spin by hand.
    No, the handle won’t pull any further and I definitely don’t want to force it.



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    Default Hardinge HC Refurb Project, Turret Doesn't Index, Varispeed doesn't adjust

    I had a look at the serial number.
    HC 4225P

    I’m going to call Hardinge as the Internet lore seems fixated on an old picture of a table with serial numbers until 1977, but apparently not after that...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    I had a look at the serial number.
    HC 4225P

    I’m going to call Hardinge as the Internet lore seems fixated on an old picture of a table with serial numbers until 1977, but apparently not after that...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I just got off the phone with Hardinge and my machine is built in 1975. They were super helpful and are sending me the parts list electronically.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    So, what paint and color do I need to repaint or cover up the chips?
    Somebody told me that Hardinge uses Sherwin Williams Polane paint.

    According to the Hardinge tech support person:

    "Paint type is 7B battleship grey, available from Sherwin-Williams."


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