Hardinge HLV chuck location stud
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    Default Hardinge HLV chuck location stud

    Hi guys, new to the forum and was referred by Tony at Lathes UK, nice fellow.

    I have a lovely HLV, came out of Rolls Royce via an ex- employee who owned it until health became an issue, I have owned it since the March and have since added my own control panel and done some re-wiring and re-motoring, all of which has added to the experience of these grand machines, its not an 'H' but its my first lathe so happy to be able to enjoy the engineering.

    It came with a 4 jaw chuck (both independent and normal) but alas no 3 jaw, been on the look out for a proper Hardinge chuck and bought a used one recently with 2 sets of hard jaws and 3 sets of soft, the chuck works fine and it will be stripped and cleaned before being put to work. Having done some quick checks the locating pin is damaged and worn, its slightly bent too, with the pin removed the taper is solid so the fit is good, just need the pin, question is can you still find them and if so where or is it a make it yourself and if that is the case does anyone have any dims of the part? If push came to shove I could copy the one in my 4 jaw.

    For reference here is the lathe for those who may like to see my control panel conversion and the lathe, sorry the panel is not rotated right still getting to grips with this forum.. appreciate any help or support.

    Marc

    img_2906.jpgimg_2939.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcsO View Post
    Hi guys, new to the forum and was referred by Tony at Lathes UK, nice fellow.

    I have a lovely HLV, came out of Rolls Royce via an ex- employee who owned it until health became an issue, I have owned it since the March and have since added my own control panel and done some re-wiring and re-motoring, all of which has added to the experience of these grand machines, its not an 'H' but its my first lathe so happy to be able to enjoy the engineering.

    It came with a 4 jaw chuck (both independent and normal) but alas no 3 jaw, been on the look out for a proper Hardinge chuck and bought a used one recently with 2 sets of hard jaws and 3 sets of soft, the chuck works fine and it will be stripped and cleaned before being put to work. Having done some quick checks the locating pin is damaged and worn, its slightly bent too, with the pin removed the taper is solid so the fit is good, just need the pin, question is can you still find them and if so where or is it a make it yourself and if that is the case does anyone have any dims of the part? If push came to shove I could copy the one in my 4 jaw.

    For reference here is the lathe for those who may like to see my control panel conversion and the lathe, sorry the panel is not rotated right still getting to grips with this forum.. appreciate any help or support.

    Marc

    img_2906.jpgimg_2939.jpg
    Shoemakers .. and their barefoot children ..... come to mind?

    You have the damaged pin.

    You have a good pin.

    You have a GREAT lathe...

    Steel exists.

    Why even ask?

    Oh.. to SHOW US you have a great lathe?

    Some kinda neat shelving, table, and lighting ideas, too!

    Thanks for all that!

    Now ..... unless this is just "photoshop" or painted papier mache decoration for a making a movie of a lathe?

    Quit screwing around and go put it to work... to make a pin for itself!

    I can JF "do" that sort of s**t.

    Trust me, it don't COOK, shag, walk the dog, decant fine Port, nor warsh yer smalls worth a dam'!


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Shoemakers .. and their barefoot children ..... come to mind?

    You have the damaged pin.
    YUP

    You have a good pin.
    YUP

    You have a GREAT lathe...
    Thats a matter of opinion

    Steel exists.
    YUP

    Why even ask?
    Don't ask don't get....

    Oh.. to SHOW US you have a great lathe?
    Is it?

    Some kinda neat shelving, table, and lighting ideas, too!
    I like it....

    Thanks for all that!
    Your welcome

    Now ..... unless this is just "photoshop" or painted papier mache decoration for a making a movie of a lathe?
    Pointless

    Quit screwing around and go put it to work... to make a pin for itself!
    As I said I would if required

    I can JF "do" that sort of s**t.
    Below the zero 'RT' makes for dumb ass

    Trust me, it don't COOK, shag, walk the dog, decant fine Port, nor warsh yer smalls worth a dam'!
    Living the dream then



    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz

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    Is this what you mean:

    dsc_0924.jpg

    I turned these down from black oxide allen screws.
    I took dimensions from the original screw which was bent at the tip.
    Last edited by rons; 12-09-2020 at 09:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcsO View Post


    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
    Now you have learned early in your career who to put on your ignore list...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    Is this what you mean:

    dsc_0924.jpg

    I turned these down from black oxide allen screws.
    I tool dimensions from the original screw which was bent at the tip.
    Toldja it wasn't hard.

    If Ron can do it, ANYONE can do it!

    Only surprise is he didn't find some way to apply his "usual approach" .... involving TiG, Bondo, and rattle-can paint....


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    hscrew.jpg
    About 3/8 long to the 45 degree angle, threads are slightly oversize 10-32. Does not go into a 10 32 go gauge and goes very easily into a 5mm no/go. Thread in the step chuck closer feels right for 10-32. dog length is about 3/32. all the lengths could be different if your 3 jaw chuck mount has a heavier wall thickness. Allen drive is 3/32. I have a feeling this is a hardened custom screw and not a turned down Allen screw. So buy it from Hardinge , salvage one from a step chuck closer or make one from o1/w1 and heat treat appropriately.
    I would not put Thermite on ignore as sometimes he is helpful. On the ones he does not appear helpful it may be because I do not have time to study his responses or can not interpret. Other times I know he is just full of wind.

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    Ask yourself how hard the screw you have is. In that bent condition. My original screw was no work of art.
    The bent nature starts to occur when the screw is not touching the backstop location but is a forward of it.
    Then the chuck moves and the screw hits the backstop. Normal usage increases the bend. IMO.

    Termite does not own a Hardinge and doesn't know jack about them. Poor dick has nothing else to do...
    You never see any work he has done. Stay in the welding section, he doesn't know that as well.

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    I have a bunch of chucks that fit my Hardinge lathes, some quite old and some new. They were made by several different makers because Hardinge did not make jaw chucks. Some chucks have special screws with a dog point sized to fit the groove in the lathe spindle. Some have round pieces of hardened steel with diameters to fit the hole in the chuck adapter, but with the same dog point, and are retained by a stock size set screw (grub screw in the UK).

    Point is, the thing has to fit your chuck and you have the chuck, so you know what you have and we, the readers, have no idea what you have from your writings up to this point.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    I have a bunch of chucks that fit my Hardinge lathes, some quite old and some new. They were made by several different makers because Hardinge did not make jaw chucks.
    ISTR we have covered this, and it is "technically correct", in that, for example, my 6" Hardinge 2-Jaw has an inobtrusive "Made in England", but only on the mounting plate. OEM "AFAIK". My Hardinge 6" magnetic was probably made for them by Walker?

    But the youngsters wouldn't necessarily be aware of the history from the Hardinge markings as to model, PN, & serial numbers on each.


    Some chucks have special screws with a dog point sized to fit the groove in the lathe spindle. Some have round pieces of hardened steel with diameters to fit the hole in the chuck adapter, but with the same dog point, and are retained by a stock size set screw (grub screw in the UK).

    Point is, the thing has to fit your chuck and you have the chuck, so you know what you have and we, the readers, have no idea what you have from your writings up to this point.
    And some Hardinge goods don't even use that spindle type. I have "some of each" as to Hardinge taper and Hardinge threaded spindle nose.

    But that's another fish altogether!


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    Yes exactly, I suppose the question is should it be hardened or is it designed to be a failure point to protect the slots in the headstock taper? I'll do some digging about on some of the other parts that came with the lathe and see if I can 'steal' one for now and then see if I can get hold of Hardinge's web site.

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    Sorry Ron was replying to your post but missed the reply with quote option!

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    I have a bunch of chucks that fit my Hardinge lathes, some quite old and some new. They were made by several different makers because Hardinge did not make jaw chucks. Some chucks have special screws with a dog point sized to fit the groove in the lathe spindle. Some have round pieces of hardened steel with diameters to fit the hole in the chuck adapter, but with the same dog point, and are retained by a stock size set screw (grub screw in the UK).

    Point is, the thing has to fit your chuck and you have the chuck, so you know what you have and we, the readers, have no idea what you have from your writings up to this point.

    Larry
    I'll post a picture then but get the gist of what needs to be done now so appreciate the feedback. I wanted to ask simply because as a brand Hardinge seem to be highly respected, well made and work to fine tolerances so was expecting these location pins to be a critical part and not something you should 'knock up' yourself, it looks like this is the way so fine happy to make some and guess the question now is should it be hardened or should it be not to allow for failure/wear rather than damage the spindle slots?

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    Nothin magical about the pins. Turn or grind them from a generic alloy socket-head-screw or set screw. If you want them flush, use a cap screw that will screw all the way in and bottom on the head (these require the overall length to be accurate), or a set-screw with a jam-screw or non-permanent thread-locker. If you have a different thread in the chuck, just use the end dimensions. The hardness (~RC37) of a typical alloy cap-screw is fine, the spindle is very hard. The pin end does not fit extremely precisely in the slot, it just acts to cam/screw the chuck onto/off the taper (a big strap-wrench is handy for removing chucks). Cheers

    hardingechuckpin-1.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails hardinge-pin.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post
    Nothin magical about the pins. Turn or grind them from a generic alloy socket-head-screw or set screw. If you want them flush, use a cap screw that will screw all the way in and bottom on the head (these require the overall length to be accurate), or a set-screw with a jam-screw or non-permanent thread-locker. If you have a different thread in the chuck, just use the end dimensions. The hardness (~RC37) of a typical alloy cap-screw is fine, the spindle is very hard. The pin end does not fit extremely precisely in the slot, it just acts to cam/screw the chuck onto/off the taper (a big strap-wrench is handy for removing chucks). Cheers

    hardingechuckpin-1.jpg
    Perfect, exactly what I needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by car2 View Post

    hardingechuckpin-1.jpg
    My hardinge chuck has a 3/8-20 thread and the dimensions of the shank are a little different.
    A UK made chuck is probably different or it depends on the vintage. I think mine is a UK.

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    Whoops! On the 4 or 5 of these things I got they all looked the same. They go back almost 50 years so I thought they were universal. I did hit a couple of them with a file and they are definitely harder than 32RC. 50 to 55RC is a wild guess. Dog end of the screw on mine is .154 so .154 to .156" is probably universal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcsO View Post
    img_2906.jpg
    You machine is a transition model from old HLV to HLV-H.

    The head bolts are still on the inside yes. But the motor speed is done with push buttons. There was a speed display box on the back of the head that was removed.
    I would date that to be 1956 or later. The serial number should be on the backside of the head right by the upper mount for the collet closure bracket..
    The only major difference between your model and a H is the increase in bed width and the four head bolts moved to the outside. You have a good machine,
    What have you done to change the power feed?

    BTW, anybody who has not watched the Rolls Royce factory video on youtube is missing something. All about jet engine manufacturing for airliners.
    Last edited by rons; 12-09-2020 at 05:14 PM.

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    Hi Rons, I'll check the serial number and post it here, then a date might be possible. The panel with buttons etc on the front is my doing, it originally had and still does have the knob to adjust the speed independently from the vario driven now by the VFD through a 3hp motor.
    The power feed is via a new DC motor with an adaptor plate I machined up to connect it to the original gear head, its a 3/4hp 3ph again driven via a speed adjuster on the panel through a VFD which sits in the electronics cabinet on the end.

    img_2931.jpgimg_2942.jpg

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    With speed display strip (which travels through the headstock) missing, how do you know what speed you are at?

    I think you need to make yourself a 4 digit speed display. It should be able to fit somewhere on that control panel.
    Or better, mount it on a post in the empty hole in the back of the head.

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