Hardinge HLV-H Carriage OIl Pump Assembly stuck!

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

Hi folk

I'd like to remove the Oil Lubrication pump assembly to clean and service but sadly it's just stuck solid.

Hardinge HLV-H Oil Pump

Tried being gentle but not moving so I guess the old oil has glued it in place

Can anyone offer removal methods through their experiences.

Thanks very much in anticipation

John :typing:

L Vanice · Oct 21, 2017

From memory, I recall there is a jacking screw provision in the round plate. The plate has a tapped hole, so tightening a screw in the hole will push the plate up out of the carriage.

I took a picture of mine just now and see that there is a set screw plugging the fourth screw hole. this lathe is a very low number example made in 1960. The extra hole could be from Hardinge or it could have been done by the original owner, General Motors Corp.

I suppose you could drill and tap the hole yourself if you are confident that there is solid metal under the rim of the circular plate.

Larry

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

Hi Larry - Thanks for your input, sadly my plate does not have the tapped hole that some oil units have

... any other ideas?? :confused:

John

L Vanice · Oct 21, 2017

I would try making a slide hammer on a hook going in the fill hole. it has worked for me to get ball bearings out of blind holes.

Once the plate is out, you can do the tapped hole for next time.

Larry

tbirds · Oct 21, 2017

Larry is correct; here's a picture of the jack screw. And a picture of the assy. once removed.

Oops, I see you don't have the jack screw.
If it helps, the pencil is pointing at the screw and where it pushes the plate up.
Cheers

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

tbirds said:
Oops, I see you don't have the jack screw. If it helps, the pencil is pointing at the screw and where it pushes the plate up. Cheers

... and that's the problem, my English built machine sadly doesn't have that extra set screw to make the extraction easy Grrrrr :wall:

Thank you for the images and your comments ... sounds like the N.American machines had the set screw while the English didn't and my machine was an export metric machine for Germany.

John :typing:

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

L Vanice said:
I would try making a slide hammer on a hook going in the fill hole. it has worked for me to get ball bearings out of blind holes.

Once the plate is out, you can do the tapped hole for next time.

Larry

Not sure a slide hammer would work Larry, the plate is absolutely solid! ... I've tried feeding a 7/16 UNF bolt into the oil hole and tightening to see if it will pull the plate up ... two worries:

Firstly stripping the few threads of the oil hole and secondly I don't know how thick the casting is at the bottom of the oil sump ... don't want to force the bolt through the bottom!!

John

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

Can one of you guys give me the spec of the Jack screw ... thinking of fitting one unless any other ideas come up! ... I presume it's going to be something UNF

Thanks

John :typing:

L Vanice · Oct 21, 2017

The screw is 5/16-18 UNC x 1/2 inch. It would be unusual to tap UNF in cast iron.

Larry

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

Thanks Larry ... be interesting to see if any other "Brain storming" goes on over night

... If not, a job for tomorrow!

John :drink:

Jersey John · Oct 21, 2017

L Vanice said:
The screw is 5/16-18 UNC x 1/2 inch. It would be unusual to tap UNF in cast iron.

Larry

... I assumed UNF as the Oil Filler thread is UNF ...

L Vanice · Oct 21, 2017

Jersey John said:
... I assumed UNF as the Oil Filler thread is UNF ...

Unstressed threads (hand-tightened filler cap) in cast iron may be fine, but stressed threads (fasteners with normal torque applied with a wrench) are usually coarse.

Larry

tbirds · Oct 21, 2017

John,
Just for fun, I measured the depth of the oil well: the apron thickness in the vicinity of the pump is: 2.602" approx., and from the top of the apron to the deepest part of the well (sump) is: 2.220" approx.
I suppose you could try soaking the edge with penetrating oil, then insert a snug drill bit shank in the mounting holes, and hit it sideways, hoping to dislodge it....By the way, the thickness of the pump flange is .527", in case you're thinking of tapping a couple of holes and use the bolts with a bar across them, as a slide hammer as Larry suggested; keeping the fill port open, will also prevent a "air lock"; the assy. is a snug fit.
Good luck.

Mark Rand · Oct 21, 2017

My vague memory of the same operation on my 1952 HLV was that the cover (Tecalemit, Paignton or Plymouth, Devon) was the usual Hardinge "bloody good fit, without any clearance where it would be useful". A bit of hockystick shaped bent rod with a nut on the top and a lump of bar with a hole in it as a slide hammer did the job.

Cleaning the glass on the sight glass is a whole 'nuther ballgame

.

Jersey John · Oct 22, 2017

tbirds said:
John,
Just for fun, I measured the depth of the oil well: the apron thickness in the vicinity of the pump is: 2.602" approx., and from the top of the apron to the deepest part of the well (sump) is: 2.220" approx.
I suppose you could try soaking the edge with penetrating oil, then insert a snug drill bit shank in the mounting holes, and hit it sideways, hoping to dislodge it....By the way, the thickness of the pump flange is .527", in case you're thinking of tapping a couple of holes and use the bolts with a bar across them, as a slide hammer as Larry suggested; keeping the fill port open, will also prevent a "air lock"; the assy. is a snug fit.

Good luck.

Thanks very much for the measurements, the thickness of the pump flange was a good one

(and was an obvious question I'd forgotten)

Going to fit a Jack screw today all being well!

John :typing:

Jersey John · Oct 22, 2017

Mark Rand said:
Cleaning the glass on the sight glass is a whole 'nuther ballgame .

Thanks for that Mark ... Give me a break

... still got to get this bl**dy flange out first!

John :cheers:

Jersey John · Oct 22, 2017

OK folks ...

Job done

... drilled and tapped in a 5/16" UNC thread. Obviously couldn't tap the full 0.5" depth (short of grinding off my No.3 tap) and then turned down the end of a Cap Head bolt to take into account the lack of thread at the bottom.

Oil lubrication unit removed and Jack screw fitted

It took a fair bit of pressure to break the seal of congealed oil etc but after 8 or 9 raising and lowering the flange with gunk lubricating the rim of the flange it came out.

A BIG "Thank you" to all who replied and contributed ... as "Normal" PM comes up "Trumps" (Hmmm may TOPS! a better word

)

John

tbirds · Oct 24, 2017

Had a bit of time on my hands today, so I drilled and tapped a 1/4-20 hole directly opposite the original jack screw, to assist in pulling up the pump assy, being tight in there, it would "cock" as you tighten the jack screw; this way, it'll come up evenly.
Cheers.

Jersey John · Oct 24, 2017

Yes, that is a very definate issue and it was the reason it took so long to get mine out once I'd broken the congealed oil seal.

I thought of doing just the same ... now my flange is very "free".

Good to hear you've done it

... why though did you not match the other jack screw using 5/16"-18 UNC screw?

John :typing:

tbirds · Oct 24, 2017

Jersey John said:
Yes, that is a very definate issue and it was the reason it took so long to get mine out once I'd broken the congealed oil seal.

I thought of doing just the same ... now my flange is very "free".

Good to hear you've done it ... why though did you not match the other jack screw using 5/16"-18 UNC screw?

John

Hello John,
2 reasons: first, if you look closely at the flange inside the sump, where the pump sits, you'll see the flange is eccentric, and there's not much room opposite the jack screw for a 5/16-18; secondly, I only had a few 1/4-20 set screws;but it'll work great, if I ever need to pull it off again; I wonder why Hardinge hadn't done it from the start...

Hardinge HLV-H Carriage OIl Pump Assembly stuck!

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Diamond

Aluminum

Attachments

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Diamond

Aluminum

Diamond

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Aluminum

Stainless

Aluminum

Similar threads