Hardinge HLV-H as first lathe - What to look for
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default Hardinge HLV-H as first lathe - What to look for

    So I have been looking at getting my first lathe for some time and initially was intrigued by the monarch 10ee but never really considered them since they are so heavy. My friend is a huge Hardinge fan and has talked about them a lot in the past so I started looking into getting a HLV-H. This would be my first lathe and I prefer the buy once, cry once mentality on quality tools. I came across what seems to be a good deal on a HLV-H and it is an older model so it's not going to break the bank for me. They said it comes with chucks and collets but I am still waiting on pictures of everything it comes with. It is also a 6-7 hour drive for me so I can't just go look at it real quick.

    What I really would like to know is what I should look for on the lathe as far as wear and what should be included. I don't have to hunt any parts down or buy a clapped out machine. It is in need of a paint job which I am fine with. I have restored machines in the past and am not afraid to dig into them a bit to make sure they keep running for a long time. I am hoping that this lathe will stick with me for a while.

    I'd appreciate any input and will update the post once I get more pictures.

    THANKS!

    124049647_10220595169042023_4320315665003658003_o.jpg

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dewees Texas
    Posts
    2,885
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    894

    Default

    I do not think it is a an HLV-H. There was a transition I think from the HLVs to the HLV-H. This one has the manual speed change looks to me that it has the narrower bed. Should be MUCH less than the 20K I bought my HLV-H for 25 years ago.
    Larry should be along soon with more details.

  3. Likes alcro1998 liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Country
    AFGHANISTAN
    Posts
    58
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    15
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default

    Hello,
    The lathe on the picture is a HLV, not a HLV-H. Can be a nice lathe though.
    Regards,
    Melle

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn Lenovo TB-8704X met Tapatalk

  5. Likes alcro1998 liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Gothca. What are the differences between the hlv and hlv-h? It seems that there are quite a few variations in the Hardinge lathes but they are quite similar.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FredC View Post
    I do not think it is a an HLV-H. There was a transition I think from the HLVs to the HLV-H. This one has the manual speed change looks to me that it has the narrower bed. Should be MUCH less than the 20K I bought my HLV-H for 25 years ago.
    Larry should be along soon with more details.
    The lathe is about 1/10 of that which probably explains why it isn't a hlv-h. I have not seen too many of the hlv's so I just assumed it was an older model of hlv-h. Would it be worth trying to buy a very nice lathe or should I just go with an older south bend, logan or something like that. I think the hlv also has a genuine Aloris tool post based on the logo which would be a plus if it is.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Country
    ALAND ISLANDS
    Posts
    42
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3
    Likes (Received)
    19

    Default

    The number one check with all Hardinge lathes is bed wear. For details on models lathes.co.uk is good and there’s a specialist group at [email protected] | Home.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    5,917
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    113
    Likes (Received)
    1150

    Default

    That is a HLV likely from the 1950 to 1955 era.

    In my opinion the Aloris like tool post is to big for the cross slide. The stock tool holders are good enough. Wait until you try some heavy cuts and the whole thing
    moves up and down. That happens a little with the stock setup (seen it for myself).

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES MINOR OUTLYING ISLANDS
    Posts
    6,611
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alcro1998 View Post
    This would be my first lathe and I prefer the buy once, cry once mentality
    What matters more than the brand is what you plan to do with it .... if you will be making O gauge brass locomotive, this would be ideal. But if you plan to face the rotors on your Mini Cooper, not so much. Hardinges are precise but they are small and have no horsepower.

    Horses, courses, all that stuff .... if it wuz the only one I was going to have, I'd probably go for a 13" Clausing Colchester. But I don't make model railroad locomotives, either

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Country
    UNITED KINGDOM
    Posts
    5,265
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3177
    Likes (Received)
    2676

    Default

    The top slide screw threading quick retract lever is missing. Could be just missing or there could be issues with the mechanism.

    The cross slide power feed clutch cam mechanism has been replaced with one from an HLV-H, the carriage feed one on the left is the original HLV type. Possibly both mechanisms and the power feed motor have been taken from different machines. Could be a good sign, that the apron has had some maintenance/rebuild in the past.

    Any HLV is going to need work unless it has been mothballed for the last 40 years. The amount of work needed can only be determined by close inspection.

    If the feeds work, the collet closer works and the bearings aren't noisy, it'll work fine as a first lathe and may well spoil you for any other lathe. Haven't used my Myford in the 10 years since I finished rebuilding my HLV, although the Myford was vital in making parts for the rebuild (mine was a basket case, this one looks far better). With time, you may well get to the point where you have the tools, skills and desire to rebuild it to new condition. But by then, you'll have a better idea of what needs done and what issues it has.

  12. #10
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Canandaigua, NY, USA
    Posts
    3,107
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    154
    Likes (Received)
    1461

    Default

    Bed wear would be my big concern, but that HLV looks like a good place to start, if the price is right. Definitely need to figure out what's going on with the quick retract, used for threading, as it seems to be missing. Headstock bearings aren't cheap, so check those. I have a small Logan at home and use an HLV-H at work. It's courses for horses. I like the large working area and easy to move tailstock on the Logan, but the HLV-H is way heavier and more accurate/precise, plus it uses 5C collets. If you want metric threading, look into what it takes with the HLV, as it can be an expensive PITA. OTOH, it's trivial with a small change-gear lathe, but that's not a big thing for most people.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    767
    Likes (Received)
    4417

    Default

    The HLV was an improved version of the TL and was made from 1950 to 1960. In 1960, Hardinge started building the new improved HLV-H. I think it is safe to say that Hardinge never built a bad lathe, but they do get badly worn with use so that they will no longer do good work. If you could get an HLV in new condition, it would be a very nice lathe. Now, consider that all those design changes in 1960 were done for good reasons, so an HLV-H in new condition would be a far better lathe. But an HLV-H that has a worn bed and bad bearings and some of the other things that wear out will not do good work.

    I noticed yesterday that HGR has a 1962 HLV-H for $3000, but it is 440V and looks like it was ill-used. Cheap, but probably needs expensive repairs. It does have most of the taper attachment.
    Used Machine Tools Equipment For Sale | HGR Industrial Surplus

    Here is a list of HLV serial numbers so you can see the year it was built.

    Larry

    dsc01166.jpg

  14. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    5,917
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    113
    Likes (Received)
    1150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alcro1998 View Post
    Gothca. What are the differences between the hlv and hlv-h? It seems that there are quite a few variations in the Hardinge lathes but they are quite similar.
    Differences:
    - Bed is about 2" wider on a hlv-h
    - Headstock is held down with four allen bolts. The are located on exterior of base with a hlv-h. The hlv bolts are in the interior four corners of the base.
    - Obviously the motor speed control. The hlv-h has push button switches.
    - The cross-slide is longer on the hlv-h because of the wider bed.

    With a fair running hlv compared to a newer hlv-h you will see no difference in parts that come off the machines.

    (BTW, the circular metal shield around the spindle nose is missing. It can be removed to mount a jaw chuck).

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Thanks for all of the in depth replies. I have gotten a few more pictures from the guy and it seems to come with a wide range of tool and I think the price is solid at $2,500. I am going to video chat with the guy tomorrow so I can get a better up close look since I am so far away. He said all the bearing are good and they have had and used to lathe a couple times a month for the past 4 years. He also said that the power feed was rebuilt right when they got it but am still unsure of the missing level. The shop is closing so I think that is why the price is pretty low. It comes with like 75 collets but I am unsure of the brands, 6 drill chucks of varying sizes, a 3 jaw chuck and what looks like a 4 jaw in the background, 4 live centers for tail stock and some other tooling that is hidden on a bottom shelf. I think as far as tooling it is pretty decked out but I don't want the tooling to cloud my judgement on the quality of the machine.
    Top

  16. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Indiana
    Posts
    13,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    767
    Likes (Received)
    4417

    Default

    The compound retracting lever that cannot be seen in the photo in post #1 is probably just hidden from view because of its position and the camera angle.

    Do you know the voltage requirement? It will be inconvenient/expensive if the machine needs 380 or more Volts. You want a 220-240 V rating for ease of getting it going. You do know it is three phase, I hope.

    Larry

  17. Likes Mark Rand liked this post
  18. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    People's Republic
    Posts
    5,608
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    667
    Likes (Received)
    3491

    Default

    For my own edification:

    It was my understanding that the beds could be removed and ground or outright replaced, and that the spindle was essentially a cartridge that could be rebuilt by a pro, and the taper reground and like new

    To me this always meant that "FOR THE RIGHT PRICE" a Hardinge was a pretty safe bet

    Am I mistaken?

  19. Likes Mark Rand liked this post
  20. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    The lever is missing but I am going to chat with the guy again tomorrow when he is at the shop. It is listed as 440v but he said he will check on that tomorrow too. I have a rotary phase converter so I am set there. Here is a bit of a better picture.

    img_2856.jpg

  21. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    5,917
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    113
    Likes (Received)
    1150

    Default

    I repost this link sometimes when these HLV lathes appear. I contacted this person about how I rinsed out all the old spindle bearing grease and palmed in new grease.
    Something he did not do and thanked me for the idea.

    Rebuilding a Hardinge HLV Toolroom Lathe

    You can make a new lever once you buy the lathe. Its just a short bar with threads on each end. One end a black plastic ball is screwed on. The other end screws into the threaded collar on the compound.

  22. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England UK
    Posts
    1,943
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    803
    Likes (Received)
    802

    Default

    The one in the pic looks like a HLV very similar to mine except it has more switches on the DC feed motor control panel. I guess it has a on-off and low-high speed switch, mine only has fwd-rev.

    It looks clean enough but beware the apron might be hiding a horror story of rusted gears and bearings.

    Also if the belts are perished they are easy enough to change on the HLV-H but the HLV can be a sonofabitch to change the top belt.

  23. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Ohio
    Posts
    11
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    I repost this link sometimes when these HLV lathes appear. I contacted this person about how I rinsed out all the old spindle bearing grease and palmed in new grease.
    Something he did not do and thanked me for the idea.

    Rebuilding a Hardinge HLV Toolroom Lathe

    You can make a new lever once you buy the lathe. Its just a short bar with threads on each end. One end a black plastic ball is screwed on. The other end screws into the threaded collar on the compound.
    I'm am more worried about something being broken and that's why the level isn't there. Would be a good first project on a new lathe to make a part for that lathe.

  24. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Virginia
    Posts
    17,185
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    7561
    Likes (Received)
    11116

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alcro1998 View Post
    I'm am more worried about something being broken and that's why the level isn't there. Would be a good first project on a new lathe to make a part for that lathe.
    Nothing to add but one thing no one has mentioned.. so far.

    A Hardinge base "cabinet" is NOT the lightweight office-desk category animal it might at first resemble.

    The all-up mass of small lathe, big cabinet, lots of "stuff" in it, and built to stay stiff and last a long hard working life ... on proper machine-hall floors. Or NOT... puts them surprisingly close to the weight of a Monarch 10EE (roughly 2800 to 3300 Avoir, depending on whether heavy MG or lighter Vacuum tubes.. ..) with a Helluva lot more chip-ripping power and stiffness up-top at the tool-tip [1].

    Hardinge has plenty of power to do what they were best at... making multiple gadzillions of small parts... fast, and at low unit-labour and machine-time cost.

    But DO keep that mass in mind when you prepare to MOVE it.... lest it embarrass you! It ain't just a South Bend 9 or 10 built with real "Iron" and a blank cheque to purchase ... or make .. all top-quality parts!




    [1] Roughly 4+ to 6+ HP, given they over-Volted ALL of the nominal 230 VDC motors to around 260 VDC... or better . and all at "Dee Cee" torque, roughly 7.5 HP AC equivalent. HLV/HLV-H did not NEED that much power. Nor have it.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •