Hardinge HLV-H versus the Britisch KL1 I have 2 of these

Peter from Holland · Sep 30, 2018

I recently bought 2 Hardinge
They were offered as HLV-H But on arrivel they turned out to be the Britisch made KL1
Is there a difference in value
And what would be a fair price for these
YOM is 1983 and 1986 Only one has a DRO

Peter

Mark Rand · Sep 30, 2018

Yes, they are worth nothing! I'll hire a truck and come over to remove one or both of them free of charge. That will save you from the expense of scrapping them.

Clive603 · Sep 30, 2018

Same machine so same value. Pretty much need to be a rivet counter to notice. For all practical purposes American made and British made machines can be considered identical although there may be some small differences where locally sourced components have been used. Usually direct functional equivalents so no great matter. I'd expect little variation that late. As I understand it older HLV had more local content.

Clive

thermite · Sep 30, 2018

Some slight differences were noted:

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...rdinge-kl-1-a-236428-post1701021/#post1701021

But basically it seems near-as-dammit a back-up Hardinge operation, different tax collector.

Peter from Holland · Sep 30, 2018

Anybody can say something about value ?

Peter

thermite · Sep 30, 2018

Peter from Holland said:
Anybody can say something about value ?

Peter

This many years on? This many years into a "CNC world?"

"Condition".. etc,

I don't see it as either cache nor drawback. Near-as-dammit 100% interchangeable parts, same build quality, fit, and finish, yah?

As always, it's about finding someone with a "want..."

Some people even pay huge sums of money for a Jackson Pollock. And all the while, others were throwing old painting dropcloths away? No painter, he. Master marketeer and salesman, rather!

Go figure...

And Oh, BTW.. I've clocked a LOT of road-miles all over the Nederlands. Y'all rude lot drive like damned Americans. Pay taxes on both sides of the road, you'll damned well get your money's worth!

If Mark Rand was willing to risk Nederlands road traffic to come after them?

They are surely worth sumthin!

Mark Rand · Sep 30, 2018

Peter from Holland said:
Anybody can say something about value ?

Peter

Realistically, the value is the same as an Elmira HLV-H. It has just been manufactured/assembled in the Hardinge Feltham, UK factory and, probably, fitted with UK (MTE, Leigh on Sea, Essex) 415V electrical controls, which are more appropriate than the 220 V American ones.

thermite · Sep 30, 2018

Mark Rand said:
Realistically, the value is the same as an Elmira HLV-H. It has just been manufactured/assembled in the Hardinge Feltham, UK factory and, probably, fitted with UK (MTE, Leigh on Sea, Essex) 415V electrical controls, which are more appropriate than the 220 V American ones.

A good deal "more appropriate", Blighty OR the Continent, I'd posit.

Even when.. we use about the same voltage, South 48, we have this annoying habit of expecting our 2XX to be accompanied by a Neutral - center-tapped & Earthed on single-phase, Wye on 3-Phase, so we can casually operate 1XX "stuff" w/o need of a control transformer, etc..

This pair should be less hassle for a European to put power to than if he did have Elmirans.

sable · Oct 1, 2018

Mark Rand said:
Realistically, the value is the same as an Elmira HLV-H. It has just been manufactured/assembled in the Hardinge Feltham, UK factory and, probably, fitted with UK (MTE, Leigh on Sea, Essex) 415V electrical controls, which are more appropriate than the 220 V American ones.

Weren't they made in/ near Exeter in later times ?

Peter from Holland · Oct 1, 2018

I think I ask €8000 for each of them
The one with the DRO a bit more perhaps
is that realistic ??

Peter

sable · Oct 1, 2018

Peter from Holland said:
I think I ask €8000 for each of them
The one with the DRO a bit more perhaps
is that realistic ??

Peter

Seems realistic to me ,as long as condition is good ,the bit that wears is the Dovetail top plate.

thermite · Oct 1, 2018

Peter from Holland said:
I think I ask €8000 for each of them
The one with the DRO a bit more perhaps
is that realistic ??

Peter

You see a whole line of Penguins waddling down the street as you came to the office this monrning? Ice or snow? Temps so cold the very air was going solid?

World has turned upside down when an experienced dealer be asking instead of telling..

Peter from Holland · Oct 1, 2018

thermite said:
You see a whole line of Penguins waddling down the street as you came to the office this monrning? Ice or snow? Temps so cold the very air was going solid?

World has turned upside down when an experienced dealer be asking instead of telling..

I am experienced but not so in Hardinge
Just orientating the market
BTW it was me who at the end mentioned a price
Was just looking for conformation
Thats what this site is all about
Not for you it is You know all :stirthepot:

Peter

thermite · Oct 1, 2018

Peter from Holland said:
I am experienced but not so in Hardinge
Just orientating the market
BTW it was me who at the end mentioned a price
Was just looking for conformation
Thats what this site is all about
Not for you it is You know all

Peter

According to some sources, I'm supposed to know it all. Constantly getting the shit kicked out of me only because I do not.

Sort of like trying to make a living as a machinery dealer, yah?

Well.... at least I don't have the overhead cost of a warehouse!

Mark Rand · Oct 1, 2018

sable said:
Weren't they made in/ near Exeter in later times ?

True. I'm not sure if they were made there or if it was just an assembly/service operation. Someone out there knows!

sable · Oct 1, 2018

I assume they made them there, ZMT services who rebuild Hardinge lathes are based near there and I assume previously worked for them ,I am only guessing that though.

Interestingly ,one of my customers has an HLV-H that was built in Elmira ,I think it will be from the era when Hardinge made lathes here so I wonder how come this is American rather than British.

Jersey John · Oct 1, 2018

In later times your correct, made in Exeter. Early times they were a Feltham Middlesex.

The most obvious difference is: The HLV-H has sliding collet drawers, the KL-1 has round carasels.

Price UK wise GBP/2.5K to 4K depending on additional tooling, oftern OVER priced because of the name!

My latest addition, a HLV-H (Metric) made in Feltham Middlesex UK came from a German dealer at GBP/£2.5K delivered.

HTH

John

Jersey John · Oct 1, 2018

sable said:
Seems realistic to me ,as long as condition is good ,the bit that wears is the Dovetail top plate.

Hmmm - Not realistic in the UK especially as tax would have to be paid if the buyer is not VAT registered.

Jersey John · Oct 1, 2018

sable said:
I assume they made them there, ZMT services who rebuild Hardinge lathes are based near there and I assume previously worked for them ,I am only guessing that though

You are correct that both the "Original" owners of ZMT did work for them. Paul the later sole owner of ZMT was one of Hardinge's senior field engineers.

FWIW You may or may not know too ... ZMT ceased trading earlier this year and ZMT is no more.

John :typing:

sable · Oct 1, 2018

Jersey John said:
Hmmm - Not realistic in the UK especially as tax would have to be paid if the buyer is not VAT registered.

Depends who is buying ,my guess is that Peter has high end clients and he will want some wiggle room.

Hardinge HLV-H versus the Britisch KL1 I have 2 of these

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Titanium

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Diamond

Titanium

Stainless

Stainless

Stainless

Titanium

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