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  1. #1
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    Default Hardinge HSL refresh

    Can't really call it a "rebuild" as there's little that needs to be rebuilt. Could almost just call it a "paintjob", but there will be a couple things to attend to.

    I've often had need of a small, simple second-op/simple-op machine, but such things basically don't exist in Alaska. I finally had an opportunity to get one, delivered, for a bit less than the typical eBay asking price, so I grabbed it. Finally came in this Friday.



    Got 'er home, unloaded it and unwrapped it...



    And started cleaning it up.



    She's had kind of a hard life, but the inner and outer spindle tapers are cherry- I'm not sure this thing's ever had a chuck on it. Bedway has a little scuffing, but of course that's almost irrelevant on something like this. Closer could use some attention, but trips and locks firmly.

    Came with a plug that was different than my setup, and was broken to boot, so I swapped over a spare I had, plugged it into my rotary, and gave it a shot. Nothing happened.

    Checked the fuses, checked the disconnects, and then checked the control box. Everything looked good... except for a bit of errant lamp cord, clearly snipped off and black-taped in place.



    I found a copy of the wiring diagram in an older thread here, though the resolution was awfully low. Chasing that a bit- I are not an electramtician- I realized the lamp cord was basically both ends of a ground.

    Just as a quick test, I stripped the ends and wrapped them together, said a minor prayer that I wasn't somehow about to let the magic smoke out, and gave it another shot. She fired right up and ran smoothly- and even in the correct direction.

    I unwrapped the black tape and found the lamp cord had been simply wound around a ring terminal, so I removed that, and reconnected it to where the other end of the cord had been.

    No idea what the cord was for. Some kind of E-stop? A remote disable switch? Can't be for like a foot switch or something, as the switch at the front of the headstock was still there and functioning properly. Maybe a safety? Some fixture or mechanism had a set of switches that had to be pressed in order to cycle? Who knows.

    Anyhow, it works, and works well. I may at some point swap it over to a VFD, but really, it works just fine on the rotary at the moment, so no real need to.

    I figure I'll break it down this weekend, and get the stand cleaned up and painted, then break down the lathe itself (except for the spindle, of course) and paint those, too.

    'Couple questions: As I'll be using this thing to occasionally spin-polish and such, can I put a DV-59 spindle protector on this thing? They're essentially the same spindle nose, right?

    What about those spindle mounted parting tool things? Not sure I'll ever need or use something like that (unless I actually gt a DV-59 with a turret ) but just kind of curious.

    And, this thing came with a pretty much standard fixed lever-action cross slide. I see some (typically expensive) toolposts on eBay- a "D9"? Are those what I'd need for this slide? (I haven't checked dimensions yet.) Or is there another type needed for this?

    Oh, and the serial is 3553-S. Any way to tell about when it was made?

    Doc.

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    The HSL has the same spindle and front bearing retainer as the DSM and DV59, so the stamped steel nose protector and vertical cutoff slide are the same for all three models. I have several old Hardinge lathes with the outer spindle taper very badly worn from polishing operations, so the protector is a very wise idea.

    I have an assortment of spare front and rear tool posts and cutoff holders and the straight and taper attachments for the double tool lever cross slide. You will also need a pair of risers, which I have. The rear tool posts are like the front tool posts except they are 3/8" taller to allow the tool bit to mount upside down. The cross slide cutoff is a universal design that works on the front or rear. The HSL has no reverse switch, so all cutting is done with the spindle running forward.

    I would guess your HSL was made around 1970.

    There is no spindle lock pin, so securely mounting a jaw chuck might be difficult. Best you can do is put the belt in the low speed groove and hope the motor brake will hold while you twist the chuck. You could remove the lever closer (a good idea when using a jaw chuck) and make a hook spanner wrench to fit the lever closer splined adjuster.

    I cleaned up my HSL and built a rolling stand with drawers for the tooling for it years ago. I put a new 1 HP 3 PH brake motor and 110 V single phase input VFD with reverse switch on it. The front power switch is now an illuminated push-pull type. I mounted a Moffat gooseneck lamp on a post in the lifting eye hole. It runs great, but I only made one part with it because there is no room for it in my shop and I do not want chips in the carpet where it sits in the mean time.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    I have several old Hardinge lathes with the outer spindle taper very badly worn from polishing operations, so the protector is a very wise idea.
    -One of the main reasons I picked this up is because I've used the other lathes for the occasional polishing and burnishing of parts. I never really liked doing so, and tried to be scrupulous about cleaning afterward. I've wanted a sort of "stand alone" setup like this for a while.

    I have an assortment of spare front and rear tool posts[...]
    -Good info. Oddly, I hadn't thought about the difference in front and rear heights, even though I have exactly that on my big W&S turret.

    There is no spindle lock pin, so securely mounting a jaw chuck might be difficult. [snip] You could remove the lever closer [snip] and make a hook spanner wrench to fit the lever closer splined adjuster.
    -Oh, good idea. Hadn't thought about that, either. I did pick up a chuck off another PM'er, specifically for those times I might have some part that didn't fit well in a collet.

    Doc.

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    I used an HSL for years as my only lathe. The motor on mine was fried when I got it and I put on a DC motor and made a controller for it. Using the different pully options gives me variable torque/speed when I'm doing things I'm not comfortable with. I'll often use low speed and torque when tapping so that the motor stalls before I break something. Mine does not have a motor brake, though I will hook up the resistive one some day..., and I've never had a problem getting chucks off by doing as Larry suggested, but just working against the inertia of the motor and spindle and using a dead blow mallet.
    One thing I love about Hardinge dovetail bed lathes is that its really easy to protect the bed from abrasives or whatever by giving the bed plate a quick squirt of WD-40 or oil and then covering that with plastic wrap, which I always have in my shop for other purposes.
    Mine often has a compound on it, which I find very useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    ...There is no spindle lock pin, so securely mounting a jaw chuck might be difficult. Best you can do is put the belt in the low speed groove and hope the motor brake will hold while you twist the chuck. You could remove the lever closer (a good idea when using a jaw chuck) and make a hook spanner wrench to fit the lever closer splined adjuster....
    Larry
    I should point out that the splined adjusting collar is connected to the spindle with a rather small key, so there is a danger of shearing the key if you put too much torque on it. I have had to replace a couple of those keys, which is not terribly difficult. But I had Hardinge replacement keys. A key would be a little fiddly part to make if you had to.

    Larry

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    Two more thoughts. If you're taking the main casting off the chip tray, it is pretty heavy. There is a lifting point behind the headstock which yours just has a straight post in. If I remove the motor from mine I can lift the rest of the lathe off, but I'm a pretty tall person and not too old..., yet. If the casting is raised off the chip tray or flipped over, it's pretty easy to remove the bed plate and have at least the top surface ground if you'd like it to look a bit less disreputable.
    Mine is on wheels and wonders around my shop from time to time as needs arise.

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    Here is the lifting eye I made for my HSL. The jam nut at the bottom is free to turn on the threads so it can lock the eye in any position. The hex at the top is silver brazed to the bar so it can have a wrench hold it while tightening the jam nut.

    I keep it stored in the cabinet base because the lamp is mounted to the lifting eye tapped hole in the lathe base.

    Larry

    dsc02738-2-.jpg

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    Mine often has a compound on it, which I find very useful.
    -I'm hoping I can eventually find compound, for something less than the usual multi-thousand-dollar asking price. I think this thing could be fairly handy for light turning and facing, not just second-op stuff.

    I should point out that the splined adjusting collar is connected to the spindle with a rather small key, so there is a danger of shearing the key if you put too much torque on it.
    -My collar is ever so slightly loose, but I don't see a setscrew or anything anywhere. I assume it's generally a light press fit.

    If the casting is raised off the chip tray or flipped over, it's pretty easy to remove the bed plate and have at least the top surface ground if you'd like it to look a bit less disreputable.
    -Probably not going to bother grinding it, but I will stone it.

    Here is the lifting eye I made for my HSL.
    Nice. But I'll probably wind up doing mine the hard way. I have it stripped down to just the base casting and the spindle, and I'll get some help in the morning to set it aside while I get the base cabinet cleaned up.

    Anybody else find a ton of swarf under theirs?



    There's a little bit of everything in there- brass, probably some bronze, maybe a little copper, steel, stainless, probably cast iron, at least three flavors of plastic...

    Found some lost treasures, too:



    Some allen wrenches, a pretty nice little Swiss file, a stone from a vibratory polisher, and a bunch of little rings and spacers that this thing was probably used to make or modify over the years.

    Doc.

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    Default Hardinge HSL refresh

    The splined collar on the back end of the spindle is a nice close sliding fit when clean and has no set screw, just the key Larry mentioned.. A little WD-40 and working it some will hopefully loosen up whatever gunk is there and allow it to slide straight off.

    As I’ve been using mine for 20 years, I’m sure there are treasures under there, but I’ll probably leave them for the next owner.

    They look so pretty when the bed plate is ground and clean! You’re almost there! Hardinge HSL refresh


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    P.S. your pry bar prop stick makes me a bit nervous... Please be careful, I know how heavy that thing is!


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    Made me a little nervous, too. I'd used the pry bar to crack it loose from the... looks like gasket pads at the three feet, probably to keep coolant from oozing through the bolt holes, if anyone ever wanted to use it. (Doesn't look to me like that ever happened on this machine.)

    Anyway, I'd hoped I could heft that thing off of there, and I probably could have done it, but it'd also probably have cost me a disc to do it.

    Once I lifted it up, I wanted to get a shot of the gunk- the pry bar is socketed into the bolt holes at both ends- probably still not terribly secure, but it was enough to hold it for a moment so I could get a picture.

    Doc.

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    Been kind of slow going, as I don't rally have the room to be sanding and grinding inside the shop anymore, and the weather has been poor the last week or so. Not really bad or anything, just enough of an on-off drizzle that doing paint-and-body work isn't the best idea.

    Anyway, I've had to sneak in a few minutes here and there during the dry spells, and finally, just this morning, got the first coat on the base pieces.

    I'd buzzed down whatever the yellow-tan stuff was, hit a few of the chips and scrapes with Bondo and spot putty, sanded again...



    Hit it with some spray etch primer, and once that was cured, slapped on the first coat of enamel.

    The stand column looks 340% better...



    And at least the underside of the top tray, so far, looks at least 255% better.



    Since I don't plan on re-using that light stand, and have no plans for anything else bolted to the drip tray, I welded up the old bolt holes. And while I was there, it had a tube at the back corner, either for collecting cutting oil, or returning coolant if one used such a thing on a machine like this.

    As usual, I didn't like the fact they'd just screwed a pipe fitting into the thin-ish sheetmetal tray, so I got a female 3/4" pipe coupler and TIG welded it into the same hole.

    I probably won't ever use actual coolant on this thing, and it's very unlikely I'll even use a light cutting oil setup, but it's not impossible, so I figured having the option was better than not.

    Doc.

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    No doubt you saw it there, but do replace the cork between the cabinet stand and chip tray. It does a nice job of quieting things.


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    Was definitely planning to. Been meaning to check with the local auto-parts shops to see if they had cork gasket material... Might have to order some, or use some other material.

    I have a couple rolls of a thin tool-drawer liner, kind of like 1/16" thick mousepad. Figured something like that might work between the stand and tray, but might be too oil-absorbent for the lathe-to-tray.

    Doc.

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    Some auto parts stores have rubber-cork composite gasket sheet in various thicknesses, but not all. You can also buy plain crumbled cork sheet commonly used for coasters etc on eBay. I use each of these regularly for non machine purposes. For the pads between the cabinet and chip tray I would not at all be concerned about oil absorption.

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    Now we're cookin`!

    Took the phone off the hook, locked the doors, raised the drawbridge, activated the autoturrets and put the cat out. I'd bought a few more materials yesterday (that is, Saturday) so I was set and ready.

    Normally, if removing the spindle were fairly straightforward, I'd have stripped this bed casting down to bare metal. But I'm told the Hardinge spindles, being high precision, are kind of tricky- and since there was nothing wrong with mine, I opted to leave it alone.

    That simply made it a more time consuming to clean up. I stripped basically everything below the spindle, mainly because it was so chipped that it'd have taken forever to fill in and sand down each little divot.



    And since I couldn't just pressure-wash it clean, I had to be damn sure to rinse away any leftover stripper.

    Side point: Non-methylated-chloride strippers... suck.

    I tried some Sherwin-Williams "professional" paint stripper, and some cheap Homey-Dee citrus based stuff. Both were excellent oil and grease removers, but couldn't have had less effect on the paint itself than if I'd mailed the unopened cans to Nome.

    I had to get out my rapidly-dwindling supply of the toxic stuff to get the job done. Fortunately there was very little additional brain damblage.

    With that done- it only cost me half a dozen IQ points- I started sanding.



    And I continued to sand for the next fifty-six hours.

    I'd sand, fill in some pinholes and chips, sand some more, fill pinholes and nicks, sand some more, prime as a guide coat, find a hundred more flaws, fill those, sand more...



    But finally, as the sun was starting to go down, I got it smooth enough it won't upset my OCD too much, hit it with a final coat of self-etching primer, and rolled 'er inside.



    Hopefully later this evening, if I'm still conscious and reasonably coherent, once the primer has had plenty of time to cure, I'll wander back out and give it it's first color coat.

    Doc.

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    First Coat!





    Doc.

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    Strongly considering running this thing on a VFD. That way I don't have to have the big rotary running all the time when using it, and I already have a 1HP/110v-in VFD I can plug in.

    Question is, what do I do with the brake? I haven't looked at the wiring yet, but I'm assuming I can do something like just tie-wire the plunger in the 'released' position, and simply not wire the solenoid to the motor wiring, but I thought I'd ask first.

    Any suggestions?

    Doc.

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    The VFD I have all have dynamic braking. I think I read somewhere where you do not want to use the friction brake with dynamic braking. I think I would read the VFD manual first before working on the manual brake. Your application here is one that really makes sense for a VFD.

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    Oh yeah. Most of my machines, except for the big Springfield, that I use a VFD on, are set for about a 2-second ramp-up and a 2-second ramp-down. I could set both faster, if I wanted to add a braking resistor, but I'm rarely- thankfully- so pressed for time that two seconds is too long.

    It's just that I know the brake is wired into the control somehow- I have not yet looked how. From an earlier thread I read, I'm given to understand the brake solenoid doesn't play nice with the VFD, but I'm also not really worried about it. If I can disconnect it and have it "locked open" somehow, that's probably what I'll do.

    Doc.


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