Hardinge tailstock

Lonny Nason · Aug 23, 2009

I recently bought a DV-59 split bed tailstock,
nice shape,works great.How do you remove
the morse taper stuff from the tailstock spindle?
Of course I can twist or tap them out,but maybe
I'm missing something.

i

L Vanice · Aug 23, 2009

The DV59 does not have a split bed, it has a solid hardened steel dovetail fastened to the top of the cast iron bed.

The split bed 59 has a one-piece cast iron bed.

There are two tailstock designs that Hardinge used. The nut may be in the tailstock casting or in the end of the tailstock barrel.

In both tailstocks, the tailstock barrel contains a loose plug that ejects standard length Morse taper tooling when the barrel is completely retracted into the tailstock. The plug hits the end of the feed screw in one design. In the other tailstocks, the loose plug hits the feed nut to eject the tooling.

Tanged tooling like drill bits and chuck arbors should always eject easily. Some centers are too short to eject. You can fiddle with the plug dimensions to improve ejection if it is a bother. I had to add a cap screw into a tapped hole in the end of the arbor to get some tools to eject from some tailstocks. For live centers, I put a block of wood between the fat part of the center and the end of the tailstock casting and crank the barrel back until the center pops out.

The above is from memory, and I have not had a tailstock apart from some time. But the remarks are probably correct.

Larry

Lonny Nason · Aug 23, 2009

Thanks for the info,Larry

Lonny Nason · Aug 24, 2009

Thanks,Larry
The plug was in there but it was stuck from not being used.
some oil and a little extra pressure worked.The lathe I have
is a ESM-59

TomBoctou · Aug 25, 2009

L Vanice said:
The DV59 does not have a split bed, it has a solid hardened steel dovetail fastened to the top of the cast iron bed.

Larry

So, I'm curious. What does one call a split bed 59?
"Everyone" refers to them as DV-59's, but I've always assumed that is incorrect. But what are they?

I have one that says, on the serial number plate,
HARDINGE
59-14605
So what is it?

I used to have one that had the slot on the back of the bed for the threading attachment, what was that one? (before you ask, I gave it away on Craigslist when moving a few years ago)

What is an ESL? Something Speed Lathe? Extreme Speed Lathe? Exuberant Speed Lathe? Enkidu Speed Lathe?

L Vanice · Aug 25, 2009

The contempory Hardinge literature did not use alpha-numeric model designations until fairly late, circa 1950. All Hardinge lathes had split beds from 1903 until 1946 and they made a few flat belt drive split beds into the 1950's. They used a number to describe the size of the headstock, with the first digit the collet size and the second digit the swing. So 59 became the popular size, but there were 37, 47, 57, 49 and even others with 6 and 7 size collets. The rear T-slot for the chasing attachment was available on any of them.

The first dovetail bed lathes, that look like the DV59, were made in 1946 and had step pullys. But it seems the DV59 model name was invented when Hardinge applied a variable speed drive to the dovetail bed lathe, about 1950. So D for dovetail and V for variable speed.

The pre-DV59 literature called the lathes "High Speed Precision Lathes." A call to Hardinge about the first 1940's split bed lathe I owned revealed the the company's internal name for it was ESM59, a name not used in the printed matter.

You tell me what an ESL is. I don't recall seeing the name. I have some HSL speed lathes.

Larry

TomBoctou · Aug 25, 2009

L Vanice said:
The contempory Hardinge literature did not use alpha-numeric model designations until fairly late, circa 1950. All Hardinge lathes had split beds from 1903 until 1946 and they made a few flat belt drive split beds into the 1950's. They used a number to describe the size of the headstock, with the first digit the collet size and the second digit the swing. So 59 became the popular size, but there were 37, 47, 57, 49 and even others with 6 and 7 size collets. The rear T-slot for the chasing attachment was available on any of them.

The first dovetail bed lathes, that look like the DV59, were made in 1946 and had step pullys. But it seems the DV59 model name was invented when Hardinge applied a variable speed drive to the dovetail bed lathe, about 1950. So D for dovetail and V for variable speed.

The pre-DV59 literature called the lathes "High Speed Precision Lathes." A call to Hardinge about the first 1940's split bed lathe I owned revealed the the company's internal name for it was ESM59, a name not used in the printed matter.

You tell me what an ESL is. I don't recall seeing the name. I have some HSL speed lathes.

Larry

ESL? That's English as a Second Language. Where did I get that? I think I got my TLA's AFU. I meant ESM. M-O-U-S-E.

jim rozen · Aug 25, 2009

Actually the term ESM, is indeed used in their literature. I've got the original
manual for this machine, and it's called an ESM-59 right there in the book.

It's the one in the foreground. It was shipped with the turret, the double tool
cross slide, and also the regular tailstock and the toolmaker's compound. The
last two still had the original hardinge cosmoline on them. I've since fitted
a white dial compound off a DV59 to the machine:

Jim

TomBoctou · Aug 25, 2009

jim rozen said:
Actually the term ESM, is indeed used in their literature. I've got the original
manual for this machine, and it's called an ESM-59 right there in the book.

It's the one in the foreground. It was shipped with the turret, the double tool
cross slide, and also the regular tailstock and the toolmaker's compound. The
last two still had the original hardinge cosmoline on them. I've since fitted
a white dial compound off a DV59 to the machine:

Jim

Don't try those tricks on me, Jim... I know what you're up to! Your post was at 8:01, but the clock on the wall in the picture CLEARLY says 3:20, an OBVIOUS Masonic reference to John 3:20: "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed". Your evil deeds are (refer to, as you say, "the book") your lust for my Ames bench mill, and the light is the purity of the scrape marks on the aforementioned bench mill... Hang on, there's someone at the door...
What? No, who is...
What? No, don't do that....
Put those Pliers Down!
I don't know anyone named Jim!
Are those LEECHES?????? NOOOOO!!!!!!!!
TAKE THE MILL!!!!
TAKE WHATEV....GKHKHKK.....BE:LT.......GRHK3PHASENOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L Vanice · Aug 25, 2009

Jim, I'd love to have a copy of that manual. The manual I have, for that exact lathe on the steel cabinet, but with conventional tailstock and slide rest, does not say ESM59 anywhere. It is titled "Hardinge High Speed Precision Lathe on Pedestal."

The descriptive bulletin bound with the instruction manual has page numbers that begin with TR, so Hardinge may have internally called it a model TR. That bulletin also says the lathe on the wood top bench is described in Bulletin LM, so maybe that was the internal model name. I mention all this because someone told me he thought the split bed tool room lathe was model TL, based on the bulletin page numbers. I have a copy of the TL bulletin with the TL page numbers. I have also seen the TL called a T-10, but don't know why and have never seen a bulletin with T-10 page numbers. But so far, only the bulletin page numbers hint at model designations on these old models. The lathes themselves have no model designation on a nameplate, etc.

Larry

TomBoctou · Aug 25, 2009

L Vanice said:
Jim, I'd love to have a copy of that manual. The manual I have, for that exact lathe on the steel cabinet, but with conventional tailstock and slide rest, does not say ESM59 anywhere. It is titled "Hardinge High Speed Precision Lathe on Pedestal."

The descriptive bulletin bound with the instruction manual has page numbers that begin with TR, so Hardinge may have internally called it a model TR. That bulletin also says the lathe on the wood top bench is described in Bulletin LM, so maybe that was the internal model name. I mention all this because someone told me he thought the split bed tool room lathe was model TL, based on the bulletin page numbers. I have a copy of the TL bulletin with the TL page numbers. I have also seen the TL called a T-10, but don't know why and have never seen a bulletin with T-10 page numbers. But so far, only the bulletin page numbers hint at model designations on these old models. The lathes themselves have no model designation on a nameplate, etc.

Larry

Oh, great. I'm lying here on the floor after Jim's henchmen have pulled my gizzard out with Vice Grips (tm), and your only concern is his ESM manual.

How about we think about ME for a minute, and what is this TLP-59 lathe I've got anyway? And is "59-14605" just a Hardinge 59?

Jim S. · Aug 26, 2009

More TL trivia.....

Larry V,
Thanks to you and Jim R for adding more insight to the Hardinge model naming conventions.

Solely to clarify the reason that some "TLs" are referred to as T10s, I have attached a picture of the tag on my lathe. The tag is on the electrical box. I have no idea what the number in the lower right box signifies -- it has no apparent correlation to either the machine serial number or the electrical diagram number. Another of those Hardinge mysteries.....

I agree with you that the model designations as hinted in the literature page numbers are useful. Thus, I have come to think of the "High Speed Tool Room Lathe" as TL. Early models appear to not have had any letter designation on the tag. Mid production lathes show T10 on the tag (as mine does) and late models have T5 (presumably corresponding with the introduction of the electrical carriage feed).

Jim S

Sea Farmer · Aug 26, 2009

Well, I've got a split-bed with a label reading "Hardinge 59-17082"

No letter designations anywhere.

Since Tom is on the floor, gizzardless, I want to join with Larry in seeing what we can do to induce Jim to reproduce his manual (Hmm, that sounds like a soap opera plot

).

Oh yeah, if anyone has a turret laying around unwanted and unloved, good old 59-17082 has room on the bed for it

L Vanice · Aug 26, 2009

Sea Farmer said:
Well, I've got a split-bed with a label reading "Hardinge 59-17082" ...

Oh yeah, if anyone has a turret laying around unwanted and unloved, good old 59-17082 has room on the bed for it

Your 17082 was built in 1942 along with thousands of others that helped win WWII. I guess it could be an ESM59 or a TR59 depending on the stuff they put on the bed when it was new.

I have a couple of spare turrets and lever cross slides.

Larry

jim rozen · Aug 26, 2009

Larry I would be happy to produce copies of all the associated manuals that
came with the machine when I bought it. Give me a day or so to put them all
together.

Jim

L Vanice · Aug 26, 2009

Jim, I will trade you a set of the paper for the TR lathe, though most of it may be the same.

Larry

TomBoctou · Aug 26, 2009

Jim S. said:
Solely to clarify the reason that some "TLs" are referred to as T10s, I have attached a picture of the tag on my lathe. The tag is on the electrical box.

Jim S

What's the distance between centers on your TL? My TLP is about 18".

I don't have any identifying plate on my TLP, just the TLP-59-xxxxx stamped into the end of the bed.

Jim S. · Aug 26, 2009

Tom B,
The Hardinge instructions list 16 1/4" between centers. I think one could get a couple more inches if necessary.

Jim S

jim rozen · Aug 27, 2009

1) Larry if you could shoot me your address to the
following e-mail:

jrr0 (at) us (dot) ibm (dot) com

where that's a zero there, not an 'oh'

then I could mail the copy of that manual out to you.
I flagged the portion where they call it an ESM-59, which
is fairly far back in the pages. It's not the worlds
best copy but I did manage the fold-out.

2) not sure what's going on, but tom b. and I have been
engaged in some playful banter regarding his recently
purchased Ames milling machine, which I have been lusting
over. We're just having a bit of fun here so nothing
to be concerned about at all.

Jim

Lonny Nason · Aug 27, 2009

Esl

I think an ESL is that old tool room lathe,the older brother
of the HLV.

Hardinge tailstock

Plastic

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Attachments

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