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    Question Help needed! I am repainting both of my HLV-EM Lathes...

    I have two Hardinge HLV-EM lathes, both in good working condition. The paint has a lot of wear, but the beds/carriages and other parts are pristine and well taken care of.

    I am a garage hobbyist and I don't like the surface rust that comes with raw metal. I am going to tear them down and give them both a good cleaning, painting, and replace any worn parts so that they look and run like new. I plan to only sand the current paint lightly so that it is a good base coat, and fill any chips prior to priming. I will need some sort of "Bondo" filler for the chips and for the areas that are worn down to the original casting.

    I have a good vent system in my garage and will wear all of the proper safety gear.

    I am wondering what is suggested for filler? Primer? Paint?

    Thank you!

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    Default Help needed! I am repainting both of my HLV-EM Lathes...

    Seems hopeless!
    You should just sell one of those EMs to me cheap! :-)

    I’m following this thread to see what people say.

    From what I’ve read in the past, it seems like bondo type fillers.
    I’ve seen lots of different answers to the paint and color question.

    From an email from Hardinge:
    “Paint type is 7B battleship grey, available from Sherwin-Williams.”

    (No mention of paint type, but it’s gotta be some sort of durable epoxy paint)

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Seems hopeless!
    You should just sell one of those EMs to me cheap! :-)

    I’m following this thread to see what people say.

    From what I’ve read in the past, it seems like bondo type fillers.
    I’ve seen lots of different answers to the paint and color question.

    From an email from Hardinge:
    “Paint type is 7B battleship grey, available from Sherwin-Williams.”

    (No mention of paint type, but it’s gotta be some sort of durable epoxy paint)
    Thank you for the feedback!

    I spoke with Sherman Williams about a month ago and they said that they have a tool paint that is Battleship Grey, so it is nice to hear that it might be the correct color.

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    I painted my Hardinge lathes in the 1980's and used Rustoleum Navy Gray. Later, they changed the name, but not the color, to the less militant Smoke Gray. For the most part, I cleaned the castings and sheet steel down to bare metal. I did not use filler, but simply kept adding coats of paint until it was smooth. That process worked and the machines still look good after 40 years, barring a few nicks. Smoke gray can be bought in various size cans and in spray cans.

    Long time ago, I bought a squeeze tube of Bondo one-part paste for filling low spots in car body work, I think. I tried it a few times on machines and decided it was worthless for my work. Then a few years ago, a house painter introduced me to Bondo All Purpose Putty. I used several cans of this two-part filler to repair rotten wood on my house before he painted it. I used a battery-powered die grinder with a carbide bur to remove the rotten wood. This Bondo putty is fantastic stuff, very easy to work with and shape and smooth after it quickly sets. I used a sharp putty knife while it was set but still soft. Then I used a Makita 1-1/8 x 21 electric belt sander after it was completely hard. So be aware that the two Bondo products are completely different. The little tubes were in the automotive department at a big box store. The two-part stuff is on Amazon or in the Sherwin-Williams store.

    Amazon.com: Bondo All-Purpose Putty, Designed for Interior and Exterior Home Use, Paintable, Permanent, Non-Shrinking, 1.9 lb., 1-Quart: Home Improvement

    Larry

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    I started out painting my machines with an alkyd enamel, specifically Bar-Ox brand. Over the years it's held up well, and I'm quite happy with it.

    On the last two machines, though, my local supplier changed dealers actually at least twice, so the old colors I used ("Molten lead" and "Noble Grey") no longer apply. And, on this latest machine, the same supplier was out of stock on the base needed to even custom-match a part.

    But since then, a Sherwin-Williams store opened, so I went over there. They scanned a part I brought in, that had been painted with the same "Molten Lead" color, and mixed me up a quart. Near as I can tell, it's an exact match to the old stuff- I touched up a chip on one of the older machines, and once dried, it's invisible.

    What you might do is try taking a part in, like maybe the tailstock, and seeing if they can match that exact original shade.

    Or just grab a can of Battleship.

    On the chips, what I've been doing, is any decent auto parts store should carry Bondo in a tube. That way you don't have to buy a full quart can, most of which will likely go to waste. I mix up a small blob on a scrap of corrugated cardboard, and use a plastic spreader (also available at the auto parts store) to spread it into the chips in the paint.

    This is called "spot puttying", and they do, as LV notes, make a specific "spot putty" that comes in a big toothpaste tube. No mixing, just squeeze and spread, but it's been my experience that it doesn't adhere as well as the 2-part stuff.

    Oh, and before you spread either one on, thoroughly degrease the area first. Alcohol, brake cleaner, carburetor cleaner (though that tends to also soften the original paint) or something similar.

    Once the putty is dry/cured, sand the area- and use a sanding pad. They make a foam pad that kind of like semi-stiff mousepad material, which helps spread and smooth the pressure on the sandpaper- so you don't end up sanding finger grooves into the old paint.

    Once the surface is smooth, mask and paint. And a big help here is first prime with a "self etching" primer- which helps adhesion and also helps reduce the chance of the rust coming back.

    I have nearly a dozen machines in the shop all painted in various versions of this method and paint, and all are holding up well, despite cutting oil, WD-40, Tap Magic and others. (I once used soluble-oil flood coolant on one- the alkyd enamel is NOT resistant to that, so I painted the drip tray with light grey POR-15, which was a close match to the Molten Lead, and has proven impervious to the coolant.)

    Doc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocsMachine View Post
    I started out painting my machines with an alkyd enamel, specifically Bar-Ox brand. Over the years it's held up well, and I'm quite happy with it.

    On the last two machines, though, my local supplier changed dealers actually at least twice, so the old colors I used ("Molten lead" and "Noble Grey") no longer apply. And, on this latest machine, the same supplier was out of stock on the base needed to even custom-match a part.

    But since then, a Sherwin-Williams store opened, so I went over there. They scanned a part I brought in, that had been painted with the same "Molten Lead" color, and mixed me up a quart. Near as I can tell, it's an exact match to the old stuff- I touched up a chip on one of the older machines, and once dried, it's invisible.

    What you might do is try taking a part in, like maybe the tailstock, and seeing if they can match that exact original shade.

    Or just grab a can of Battleship.

    On the chips, what I've been doing, is any decent auto parts store should carry Bondo in a tube. That way you don't have to buy a full quart can, most of which will likely go to waste. I mix up a small blob on a scrap of corrugated cardboard, and use a plastic spreader (also available at the auto parts store) to spread it into the chips in the paint.

    This is called "spot puttying", and they do, as LV notes, make a specific "spot putty" that comes in a big toothpaste tube. No mixing, just squeeze and spread, but it's been my experience that it doesn't adhere as well as the 2-part stuff.

    Oh, and before you spread either one on, thoroughly degrease the area first. Alcohol, brake cleaner, carburetor cleaner (though that tends to also soften the original paint) or something similar.

    Once the putty is dry/cured, sand the area- and use a sanding pad. They make a foam pad that kind of like semi-stiff mousepad material, which helps spread and smooth the pressure on the sandpaper- so you don't end up sanding finger grooves into the old paint.

    Once the surface is smooth, mask and paint. And a big help here is first prime with a "self etching" primer- which helps adhesion and also helps reduce the chance of the rust coming back.

    I have nearly a dozen machines in the shop all painted in various versions of this method and paint, and all are holding up well, despite cutting oil, WD-40, Tap Magic and others. (I once used soluble-oil flood coolant on one- the alkyd enamel is NOT resistant to that, so I painted the drip tray with light grey POR-15, which was a close match to the Molten Lead, and has proven impervious to the coolant.)

    Doc.
    Thanks for the detailed info!

    I was considering this: Pro Industrial™ Urethane Alkyd Enamel - Sherwin-Williams

    This is for Bondo: Amazon.com: 3M Platinum Plus Filler, 01131, 1 gal: Garden & Outdoor

    But you said it is not resistant to soluble-oil flood coolant...I am not sure I will ever use coolant with the machine as I mostly cut soft materials, but you never know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaryC View Post
    Thanks for the detailed info!

    I was considering this: Pro Industrial™ Urethane Alkyd Enamel - Sherwin-Williams

    This is for Bondo: Amazon.com: 3M Platinum Plus Filler, 01131, 1 gal: Garden & Outdoor

    But you said it is not resistant to soluble-oil flood coolant...I am not sure I will ever use coolant with the machine as I mostly cut soft materials, but you never know.
    Hardinge warns to never use water-based coolant on the HLV-H.

    Bondo is not made by 3M; they are different companies. No doubt 3M makes good products. I see the manufacturer says that product is designed to be used with a special mixing gun to assure the hardener and product are properly mixed and free of air bubbles after mixing. And the gallon can does not contain a gallon of product.

    Larry

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    Hardinge warns to never use water-based coolant on the HLV-H.

    Bondo is not made by 3M; they are different companies. No doubt 3M makes good products. I see the manufacturer says that product is designed to be used with a special mixing gun to assure the hardener and product are properly mixed and free of air bubbles after mixing. And the gallon can does not contain a gallon of product.

    Larry

    Larry
    Maybe the Bondo standard body Filler or Bondo Professional...

    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40071783/
    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067508/

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    Quote Originally Posted by L Vanice View Post
    Hardinge warns to never use water-based coolant on the HLV-H.

    Bondo is not made by 3M; they are different companies. No doubt 3M makes good products. I see the manufacturer says that product is designed to be used with a special mixing gun to assure the hardener and product are properly mixed and free of air bubbles after mixing. And the gallon can does not contain a gallon of product.

    Larry

    Larry
    Maybe the Bondo standard body Filler or Bondo Professional...

    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40071783/
    https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40067508/

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    Anything industrial meant for "harsh service" will work fine.
    Harsh service is code for marine paint, but at 60% less cost.
    Anything industrial will also work.

    It does not matter if it is water soluble - even some epoxy stuff is water soluble these days - and used in B$ assemblies like glueing the boeing aircaft together.

    And most-anything You can find in Your local industrial MRO supply shop will have changed from 20-10 years ago, perhaps more than once.

    If You can handle them, the 2-part industrial epoxies tend to be extremely strong, hard, but expensive. And toxic.

    The new LPU linear polyurethane paints are the best for surface finish.
    Industrial users and yacht painters use them.
    But they are a topcoat, and not at all what I would recommend for a machine tool.

    I use anything industrial with solvents, and they tend to work fine.
    Some water based stuff has been used, and some has been ok ..
    but I use solvent based stuff.
    Painting machine tools, near water.

    So..
    paint them with anything solvent based meant for industrial use.
    Imho.
    Or 2-part epoxy, if You can afford it.
    And using the epoxy paints, even with a decent mask, is a pain.

    Using them with an average mask is horrible and toxic and carcinogenic - cumulative.
    I´ve done so - I wont do it anymore.

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    I used 2-pack polyurethane on my HLV, with appropriate breathing mask, gloves and overalls. Colour is RAL6018 Yellow Green .

    I blame Macona and his red Monarch for my choice of non-grey paint...

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    Hi,
    If you want a one part, paint that holds up well and is affordable, ($30 gal.)...

    Ace Hardwares, "Rust Stop" Med. Gray, has worked for me and others.

    Nothing is going to be as hard as a two part epoxy, but...

    Paint advise for machinery

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    We re-painted several machines 5 years ago with a 2 part epoxy from tractor supply and they still look good. The pain was reasonably priced, I Don't recall exactly what it was but I think I still have the cans. So if you pm me I will look for the info for you.

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    My favorite product to use is 3m spot putty 5096. It comes in a tube and is great for filling in paint chips. tube is $20 but goes a long way.
    First step is to clean all surfaces with a grease cutter. I use maintex from costco. or the new DAWN ultra foaming dish soap works well.
    Then I lightly sand with 120 grit. I use festool sander with HEPA vac and respirator. Some of those old finishes are lead based.
    Then I use rattle can spray sealer such as kilz, to stop any oils from bleeding through.
    Next i start filling in the chips. for large areas I use Evercoat RAGE ultra. for small chips I use the spot putty 3m 5096.
    You have to work fast with the Rage ultra because it hardens in minutes. the spot putty allows much more working time. use the plastic spreaders for both products
    I sand the filler with about 150grit.
    next i use a rattle can Rustoleum auto primer. This will allow you to see imperfections in the body filler.
    Then I fill in all the imperfections and recoat with another layer of primer until you are satisfied with the surface.
    Then I hand sand the surface to 220 or 320 grit. and it is ready for top coat
    I use Rustoleum Professional Smoke gray. Thinned 4:1 with acetone. I add FLOOD PENETROL for good flow and Valspar Hardener.
    Valspar hardener is hard to find so I just got some MAJIC hardener 8-0950-4. I only used the Majic one time.It seemed to work well. available at Tractor supply.
    I spray with a Devilbis Tekna pro lite. The paint flows nice and gets pretty hard and dries quick.

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    Sherwin Williams (not the house paint outlet Sherwin Williams) industrial or automotive stores carry a 2 part urethane enamel that is pretty amazing. A monkey could spray it and get a very nice job- its high gloss and flows very well. You can add hardener just like acrylic enamel. If you want to maintain the value of your lathes, do not paint them with anything that has the word Rustoleum in it. I don't think I would even consider even alkyd enamel for these. Just my thoughts. The other route is Polane or Imron, but I don't think you want to go there.

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    I willing to learn. What is the aversion to Rustoleum? It doesnt last? What is your experience?

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    I have three lathes, two mills, two drill presses, a bench grinder and a bandsaw painted with alkyd enamel. The first of the lot was painted back in 2008, and while I'm not a full-tilt balls-to-the-wall job or production shop, every machine gets used regularly and frequently. The paint has held up very well, including against cutting oil, Tap Magic, WD-40, etc.

    Not gonna say an alkyd enamel is the "best" choice, and I'll note right up front it is not resistant to water-based coolants, but it's overall a pretty good choice.





    Doc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lectrician1 View Post
    I willing to learn. What is the aversion to Rustoleum? It doesnt last? What is your experience?
    It is not very durable in the machining environment.

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    Not looking to feed a flame war, but is there any paint that actually does last long term against cutting fluids and chip [th]rash?
    I see lots of anecdotes.
    Test data would be interesting.

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    It's not a "flame war", but it is a case of many people have different opinions because they've had different experiences. And that's because no two paintjobs are alike.

    The key to any paintjob is the preparation. You can put $300 a gallon automotive urethane over something that's rough and still has traces of oil, and you'll get a shitty finish.

    On the other hand, you can brush house latex over a well-finished, smooth, oil-free and properly primed surface, and get a nice-looking finish that lasts a surprisingly long time.

    Most urethanes and enamels- oil based stuff- is generally pretty resistant to cutting oils. Almost NO paint, generally speaking, is totally impervious to water-based flood coolant. I believe it's because of the emulsifier- whatever they put in it to make the oil and other additives mix with the water.

    I think whatever that is also attacks most paints, and between the slight softening and constant stream of chips, the insides of most machining centers wind up down to bare metal.

    The tricks there are either powdercoating or a high-dollar two-part epoxy paint. I used POR-15 on the one machine I used water-based flood coolant on, and it held up with zero damage- and has been largely scratch resistant, too- but it also wasn't a 24-7 turning center

    As for mechanical damage like chips from dropped tools, or scratches from a stream of chips flying off a big cutter, the better paints tend to resist that more, but again, in those cases, surface prep is even more important. If the paint doesn't have a good bond to the base, it can crack off no matter how supposedly tough it is.

    TL,DR version: There is no such thing as an invulnerable paint. And there's very few paints that can be applied over a crappy surface and give you good results.

    Doc.

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