Hlv-h 9 tpi?

Billtodd · Oct 7, 2020

Does anyone have to hand the gear setting for 9 TPI on an HLV-H

I can work it out but...

And, yes I know it's pushing the lathe to cut such a thread (I have a soft start mechanism for the threading clutch - see one of my old threads ... somewhere on this forum)

Bill

donie · Oct 7, 2020

It is not easy on a Monarch ee to cut 8tpi, either using the half nuts or leaving the half nuts engaged.
Both machines having an 8tpi leadscrew, like many small machines.
The Hardinge having the mechanical leadscrew reverse, I didnt think about how that would work with really coarse threads.
I work in hydraulics, and cut a considerable amount of screw threads, so I am interested and will watch this thread.

Mark Rand · Oct 7, 2020

depends what changewheels you've got on hand. The leadscrew is 10tpi (that cought me out once!), so anything that increases the speed by 10/9 will do it. so:-

60:54
70:63
80:72
90:81
100:90

Use one or more idlers to get it to mesh.

PS:- the lathe'll take it easily. I've got a 1.375" 7tpi ACME thread, that I cut in EN24T/4340PH on the 1952 HLV, in front of me waiting to go off for nitriding.

Oops, HLV-H is 8tpi (HLV -s 10) so:-
36:32
45:40
54:49
63:56
72:64
81:72
90:80
99:88

Note:- Myford changewheels (obtainable from RDG/Myford.co.uk work on the Hardinges. They won't mesh with the Hardinge gears, but are much cheaper if you need odd numbers of teeth.

Billtodd · Oct 7, 2020

Thanks guys.

Actually Mark, the hlvh has an effective 10 tpi lead screw because of the 5:4 ratio internal gears , so you were correct with the 60: 54 (I've eaten so my lazy patch has passed , or at least faded a bit :-))

I use myford gears which have always worked ok , albeit slightly fiddly because of their extra size .

Ta

Bill

Peter. · Oct 7, 2020

If you ever get stuck I can produce any of the 22DP change-gears in almost any tooth count up to about 4.5" diameter. It's one of the jobs I intend to do for my own HLV.

thermite · Oct 7, 2020

Billtodd said:
Does anyone have to hand the gear setting for 9 TPI on an HLV-H

I can work it out but...

And, yes I know it's pushing the lathe to cut such a thread (I have a soft start mechanism for the threading clutch - see one of my old threads ... somewhere on this forum)

Bill

Odd "9" is a challenge, but the "pushing" part isn't terrible.

Much lighter built South Bend tens and comparable Logans with 2 1/4"-8 spindle noses have cut thousands at similar stress levels for their own chuck backplates.

Also at least one from-scratch spindle, same thread, 'coz it earned me an "A+" for the course!

Well, not QUITE "from scratch"? Pennsylvania Drilling crew I has spent the summer core-drilling with had gifted me with a burn-off of "drill steel", so I already had a through bore to begin the tasking with.

Jim S. · Oct 7, 2020

Bill,
Sounds like you have the gearing worked out. But somewhere in my files I have a copy of a Hardinge gearing chart that lists gears for threads down to 4tpi. If I run across it, I'll post a copy. I seem to recall that it appeared to be published by Hardinge and not someone else's work.
Jim

thermite · Oct 7, 2020

Jim S. said:
Bill,
Sounds like you have the gearing worked out. But somewhere in my files I have a copy of a Hardinge gearing chart that lists gears for threads down to 4tpi. If I run across it, I'll post a copy. I seem to recall that it appeared to be published by Hardinge and not someone else's work.
Jim

18 surely exists:

https://www.csparks.com/hardinge/Manual/Page34-35.jpg

Set for that first. Then introduce a supplementary 2:1 anywhere you can fit it in, (timing gears, chains, or Gilmer belts off any handy 4-stroke IC engine are invariably 2:1 and easily found as working pairs) and you have your 9 TPI.

Billtodd · Oct 8, 2020

Set for that first. Then introduce a supplementary 2:1 anywhere you can fit it in, (timing gears, chains, or Gilmer belts off any handy 4-stroke IC engine are invariably 2:1 and easily found as working pairs) and you have your 9 TPI.

Unfortunately the HLV-H's pitch gearbox is bypassed when using the change gears. Only the 'three change' x1, x1/2, x1/4 gears are inline. and because of a 5:4 ratio just after the spindle speed threading dog-clutch the effective pitch of the lead screw is calculated as 10,20 or40 TPI

thermite · Oct 8, 2020

Billtodd said:
Unfortunately the HLV-H's pitch gearbox is bypassed when using the change gears. Only the 'three change' x1,x2,x4 gears are inline. and because of a 5:4 ratio just after the spindle speed threading dog-clutch the effective pitch of the lead screw is calculated as 10,20 or40 TPI

10EE 'round dials" seemed tough to fiddle with. And then I bought the HBX 360 with the "BC" optioning "special apron" and a threading system that borders on black magic, 400 cheeses, fighting with their feet and .... a most peculiar race!

One of life's "gotcha's" seems to be that old, clumsy, bulky, even CHEAP and right crude lathes yah could JF DO this stuff.

But the nicer, more well-thought-out, and better-engineered the machine?

The harder it became!

You might need to just borrow a different lathe for this tasking?

9 TPI is right on the dial of the 10EE or Cazeneuve, either one.

Transport, OTOH..

Billtodd · Oct 8, 2020

Always wanted an HX360 :-) It's the twiddly bits that attract!

Paradoxically, I'm doing the job , a Bentley suspension part, for a guy , for whom I've just secured a very nice DSG (the one that I fitted s new cross-slide screw to only a few years ago)..
The DSG would certainly cut the thread but wont be installed and working for several weeks/months (covid strikes again).

Bill

thermite · Oct 8, 2020

Billtodd said:
Always wanted an HX360 :-) It's the twiddly bits that attract!

I dont have a damned thing that calls for making a chip but "feel like it" and the odd bits one playtoy needs to make for itself or another playtoy. It is ALL about the "twiddly bits" for me!

Hence the USMT "Quartet" Combo mill. Or Confounding mill! Must have owned stock in a belting firm, there being enough Gilmer synchro belts in her to stock a distributor, not even ONE of them where synchro is the reason atall!

The HBX-360-BC? If that complex bugger were any "fiddlier" I'd prolly need gender-reasignment surgery and frog DNA to operate it! it's really sweet once yah get the langauge sorted. But easily as "different" as the French language is from fishing with dynamite.

Paradoxically, I'm doing the job , a Bentley suspension part, for a guy , for whom I've just secured a very nice DSG (the one that I fitted s new cross-slide screw to only a few years ago)..
The DSG would certainly cut the thread but wont be installed and working for several weeks/months (covid strikes again).

Bill

Had a mate who ran a Lancia Delta Integrale on Richmond/Twickenham streets but not-only at about 11/10ths just to go for a curry!

We went to a meet where several early Bentley were among the joyful display.

Yer right. The buggers had "suspension"!

Damndest thing.

I guess W.O. and they weren't really British after all?

donie · Oct 8, 2020

I will caution using the EE for the coarse threads, it is still a little machine, but with a heavy carriage, and a small leadscrew. They are great, but cant do everything well.

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