What's new
What's new

HLV h power feed wiring picture needed.

co1859

Plastic
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
I purchased a used non-working Hardinge HLV-H #6815 P 230Vac 3 phase Machine. After 2 months of self study on the forum, cleaning and Transformer replacement it runs very well. However; One last thing to trouble shoot is the power feed control box. I need ask for a little help..

The switch Right/Stop/Left worked fine, but no speed adjustment from the amber colored (Potted?) rheostat. I am suspecting a couple wires could be in the wrong location. I did find wires that do not match the rest.

I am hoping someone can take 3 pictures of their working non-modified feed controller box wiring and post them for comparisons and reference. Once I can verify the wires are in the right location, I will know the operational status. I'm unable to locate the stock wiring diagram KLC-8220 anywhere, including from Hardinge. All the diagrams I have seen are for the Modifications to add bridges. I need to see if it works in stock configuration, before I make modifications or replace.

example
The rheostat 120volt input is on terminals L1, L2 works. Terminal S1 has wire #21. Terminal F1 has wire F1 and #20 Terminal F2 has #23 only (Wire F2 is one of the wires in question) some simple pictures would be a great reference.
 
Apparently the potted control module was notorious for internal failures. If it is like the one my buddy had on his HLVH
the speed control was either full on, or full off.

His solution was to purchase the replacement from hardinge, which was two boards to take the place of the potted unit.
Hardinge provided the boards to him, and they had been stuffed incorrectly, so the magic smoke came out as soon as they
were put into use. Hardinge eventually made good on that but it was clear the feed control units were not well understood
by anyone at the factory. I eventually had to reverse engineer a schematic for the unit to see where it had failed.
 
Jim
My feed motor did smoke a little on the first testing. So; I Replaced the bearings, filed the brushes flat, turned the Commutator,and cut the Mica back, Installed some shrink wrap to hold the old wire insulation in place on the field winding leads. Motor works well. I also tested the DBR is good at the listed 50 Ohms and the other two resistors test out fine at 500 & 1500 Ohms, The rheostat is on one speed only. I will try to post some pictures.

Ron Robbins
 
Before and after Pictures I will get some pictures of the control wiring
1 Hardinge HLV-H as purchased.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 1 Hardinge HLV-H as purchased.jpg
    1 Hardinge HLV-H as purchased.jpg
    92.8 KB · Views: 643
  • hardinge HLV-H clean up 010.jpg
    hardinge HLV-H clean up 010.jpg
    93.7 KB · Views: 1,572
Last edited:
Some pictures and thoughts: The Right/Stop/Left switch works fine, Eliminating any problems with the light blue switch wires. The black and white 120 volt incoming on rheostat L1,L2 works fine. So my thoughts are the armature wires(Red A1, Black A2) "Might" be in the right spots because the motor runs fine

I suspect the field winding leads F1 White & F2 Green may be on the wrong terminals. (Lack of speed adjustment). Note F2 has no motor lead on it. I just need to verify from a stock working Control unit.


El 021 (11).jpgEl 021 (10).jpgEl 021 (12).jpgEl 021 (13).jpg
 
Car2
Thank you it is really appreciated. The lamp fuse in the control box did blow while trying to find the variable 0-90Vdc, that fuse 1.5amp fuse was replaced, I now have extras on hand. I do have 120Vac incoming. I will look at it this afternoon and post my findings. I will most likely find a switch like yours to keep it simple Thanks again.
Ron
 
Last edited:
car2
The #800T-J2KC7 series N switch was easy to find. I did noticed that the switch can use different contact block configurations and series letters.

Last part of this puzzle Is
Do all 3 Clear plastic contact blocks say 800t XA series C? I can see the 800T XA, but not the series letter. (It looks like a C)
I'm guessing both left side 4 terminal contact blocks are the same 800t XA series C
Can not see the right side 2 terminal one.
Your wire diagram was a BIG help.
Thanks
Ron
 
Apparently the potted control module was notorious for internal failures. If it is like the one my buddy had on his HLVH
the speed control was either full on, or full off.

His solution was to purchase the replacement from hardinge, which was two boards to take the place of the potted unit.
Hardinge provided the boards to him, and they had been stuffed incorrectly, so the magic smoke came out as soon as they
were put into use. Hardinge eventually made good on that but it was clear the feed control units were not well understood
by anyone at the factory. I eventually had to reverse engineer a schematic for the unit to see where it had failed.

Charles and Jim
I did find wiring issues (fixed once before). Also realized The feed control module failed in the Full on position as Jim pointed out. The Robbins and Myers DC motor "was saved" and runs good.
The good thing is; I get to buy a DC Motor controller and custom fit the mounting.
I would like find something made in the USA. 120vac input/0-90vdc adjustable output/ reversible and a sealed unit. Open to suggestions.
 
Yep, this was my buddy's HLVH as well. Same amber colored potted module, same symptoms.

His approach was to purchase the hardinge retrofit for their feed setup. I seem to recall it wasn't that
expensive - was two boards, one with the speed control and one with power resistors on it. Hardinge
engineered it to fit in the same small box enclosure (variac/power pot control goes in a BIG box) and it
worked fine, that is after it smoked the first time because the vendor hardinge used stuffed the control
board incorrectly. But they did make good on it eventually.

Call them and see what the bad news would be $$-wise.
 
I already sent a email to a Hardinge dealer requesting a info & quote. I'm also researching an Open frame DC drive. I can see this will take a while to filter through. Lots of choices.
 
The reply from Hardinge - The power feed module was re-engineered and I had to purchase the
Complete system, New box with electronics and DC motor for $4100.00

Plan B - Compare the Bodine vs. Iron Horse GSD3-240-2CL.

Ron
 
This is the set up that worked for me. If anyone sees something wrong, Please chime in and let me know how to fix it or make it better.

The motor draws
15% .000DCmA
25% .100DCmA
50% .220DCmA
70% .340DCmA
100% .433DCmA
.533DCmA with carriage/crossfeed clutch slipping

Wiring diagram 002.jpgWiring diagram 003.jpgWiring diagram 004.jpgWiring diagram 005.jpg
 
Cleaning?

Your HLV-H is looking great! I'm just now starting the cleaning process on mine and was wondering what you used to get your carriage and saddle to look so new like? Thanks in advance.



I purchased a used non-working Hardinge HLV-H #6815 P 230Vac 3 phase Machine. After 2 months of self study on the forum, cleaning and Transformer replacement it runs very well. However; One last thing to trouble shoot is the power feed control box. I need ask for a little help..

The switch Right/Stop/Left worked fine, but no speed adjustment from the amber colored (Potted?) rheostat. I am suspecting a couple wires could be in the wrong location. I did find wires that do not match the rest.

I am hoping someone can take 3 pictures of their working non-modified feed controller box wiring and post them for comparisons and reference. Once I can verify the wires are in the right location, I will know the operational status. I'm unable to locate the stock wiring diagram KLC-8220 anywhere, including from Hardinge. All the diagrams I have seen are for the Modifications to add bridges. I need to see if it works in stock configuration, before I make modifications or replace.

example
The rheostat 120volt input is on terminals L1, L2 works. Terminal S1 has wire #21. Terminal F1 has wire F1 and #20 Terminal F2 has #23 only (Wire F2 is one of the wires in question) some simple pictures would be a great reference.
 
Your HLV-H is looking great! I'm just now starting the cleaning process on mine and was wondering what you used to get your carriage and saddle to look so new like? Thanks in advance.


Customwoodwind
Sorry for the late reply
Completely disassembled carriage and saddle - used a lot of elbow grease along with Carb cleaner/Throttle body cleaner (caution on painted surfaces will eat the paint) scraped with razor blades and burnished with gun oil using 0000 steel wool. Also used and a little black spray paint. I also think the camera led flash makes it really look good, Not the shiny now after using it.
Ron
 
Hey folks - I am attempting to make the same electronics update as CO 1859 - modern DC control module.
my HLVH is 1961 vintage (large carriage DC control panel, running 220V 3Ph via a rotary phase converter.

when i apply 120V AC from the lathe's 2-wire source (in the box) the main motor contactor is shorting out or the board is drawing too much amperage, causing the primary spindle motor to not engage. at this time i have not even hooked up the carriage motor, just 120V to the DC board.

i have to reset the spindle motor via the front of main power junction box. re-engaging the spindle motor via the lever control sends 120V to the DC board for a split second, but trips the main before spindle spins up.

this action is not tripping the 30A breaker on my rotary converter.

if i disconnect the 120V leads on the new DC board, spindle motor spins up as expected.

i have the original wire schematic, but the 120V source is unclear due to age.

has anyone else experienced this issue upgrading the DC control module?
your experiences much appreciated!
Patrick
 
HLV-H 120V source check first

I have confirmed that i have 120V in the carriage mtr control box, coming from the main power when the spindle drive is engaged. the 120V is switched back off when main spindle control lever is moved to OFF.

Question - is the carriage 120 meant to be switched by the spindle control lever?


IF so, i need to figure out why the modern aftermarket 120VAC -to-90V DC motor control (shown in thread above)is drawing enough amperage to trip the primary spindle power contact.


thanks!





Probably need some more info for folks to help. The board (even with motor attached) shouldn't draw much current, should't draw anything of note with no load, sounds like something is shorted or wired incorrectly. Maybe try hooking it up to a 120 volt source not on the machine to eliminate that variable (with an appropriate fuse if the board doesn't have one), and check the output voltage. Guess you've actually checked that it is indeed 120v from the machine. I'll throw out the general caveat also on the rotary phase-converter, make sure that the "wild" leg of the phase converter is not hooked up to the control transformer. I haven't installed those boards, so no specific help there.
 








 
Back
Top