Inspecting a HLV-H thats not under power
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  1. #1
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    Default Inspecting a HLV-H thats not under power

    Hi all, first post here.

    I am going to finalize a deal on my dream lathe this weekend. A super precision HLV-H EM. Based on photos the seller has sent me it looks absolutely perfect. And for a $7k asking price I kinda dont think theres a way this turns into a bad deal for me. The story is that its been in storage since 1992. The owner has never had it under power and has no way to power it when I check it out.

    Included with the sale are 3, 4 and 6 jaw chucks, full set of round Hardinge 5c collets, dro, and taper attachment.

    Im planning to bring a noga and .0001 indicator with me to sweep the bed and spindle (while hand rotating).

    My question is:
    A) what else can I realistically check without any power?
    B) what kind of initial maintenance and repairs am I looking at to get it operational after sitting in storage for 28 years?

    Thanks all! Im 101% sure Im getting it, just trying to go in with as many facts as I can.

    Will be posting again soon for help with VFD setup I hope!

    Dropbox - Photo Nov 18, 7 53 50 AM.jpg - Simplify your life
    Last edited by smithprocess; 11-20-2020 at 02:15 AM. Reason: Typo fix

  2. #2
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    Clearly it's a scam. Post the exact address and sellers name and contact info here so we can investigate and verify such as suspected,.

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    Take a close look at the photo. I'm not familiar with the all the details of modern HLVH's, so concentrated on the DRO display. Here's what a few minutes on the net yielded:

    The display shown looks to be a Magnescale LH70. It's a current model, according to the link, introduced in 2008.

    Sony spun off the Magnescale division in 2014. "Sony Magnescale" seems to be on all their DRO displays before then.

    I think it's safe to say that either (1) That photo is not a photo of the machine you're interested in, or (2) A very recent DRO display was put onto a much older machine.

    In any case, be very careful. Go to pick it up with someone else, don't pay till it's on your truck and the gates are unlocked. At $7k, clearly a great deal if it's legit. A glance, at this price, should be enough inspection.

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    for that price it looks to good to be true

    I'd take a set of allen wrenches with me and adjust both gibs on the carriage (Z and X) to be on the very tight side near the middle of travel and try to get a feel of the wear (if any) on the ends of the travel, how much (if at all) it becomes tighter away from the middle

    another thing that might give a clue might be the 5C taper condition, remove chuck and put an indicator on the inner taper surface, look for raised ridges left by the gaps in collets taper

    check reeves drive pulleys for wear, if it has been ran for long periods of time in one speed, you might feel a step in the surface

    but if the saddle is tight and doesn't bind with the tight gib adjustments, and the variable speed pulleys look like new, then it is quite a safe guess that the machine hasn't been spruced up and may not hide anything bad

    with no power there is no way to get a good idea about spindle bearing condition, other than the indicator on the spindle nose I mention previously

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    He's bringing his Noga .0001 and he's 101% SURE didn't you read??
    I'd think at 101% the machine comes wrapped in a big red bow, with a show girl escort of some sort?
    Good luck, happy hunting

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    Neilho: thank you! I was wondering what dro that was. Timeline does seem a little odd, and your points about pontential scam and security are legit.

    Jz79: exactly what I was looking for. I will test and inspect all of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by neilho View Post
    Take a close look at the photo. I'm not familiar with the all the details of modern HLVH's, so concentrated on the DRO display. Here's what a few minutes on the net yielded:

    The display shown looks to be a Magnescale LH70. It's a current model, according to the link, introduced in 2008.

    Sony spun off the Magnescale division in 2014. "Sony Magnescale" seems to be on all their DRO displays before then.

    I think it's safe to say that either (1) That photo is not a photo of the machine you're interested in, or (2) A very recent DRO display was put onto a much older machine.

    In any case, be very careful. Go to pick it up with someone else, don't pay till it's on your truck and the gates are unlocked. At $7k, clearly a great deal if it's legit. A glance, at this price, should be enough inspection.
    That photo shows a nearly new machine from what I can see so well under priced? As suggested go mob handed, there has been nasty cases over here of deals being too good to be true, take care & let us know how it goes. Tony

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    I don't think that work light was available in 1992 either. I have the same one on my HLV-H and it's LED, which wasn't a thing back then
    It feels to me like the story doesn't match the photo - as others have said, be careful

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    Valid points about the story not exactly adding up. I noticed that led light was newer as well.

    I asked the seller to send me a few new pictures of specific details, which he did. So Ive at least confirmed hes physically in the room with that exact lathe.

    Going to look at it in person later today. Will post back

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    The lathe serial number would nail down the age.

    The 3-jaw chuck, at least, is old. It is the one that was stamped Hardinge Made in England. Hardinge stopped selling that chuck decades ago, but I don't know exactly when. The picture only shows one set of jaws. These chucks usually have one set of jaws lost once they leave the original owner's shop. The chuck has essentially no effect on the value of the lathe. Hardinge also sold an English 4-jaw in the same time frame. But the 6-jaw might be anything.

    Larry

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    Buy the thing. It's worth 3-4 times that price of 7K.

    The spec for spindle is +/- .000025. Better bring a .00005 indicator instead of a .0001 indicator.

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    Well, good news. It's legit, and it's mine.

    The guy that I talked to on the phone didn't know the whole story. The guy I met today did.
    Lathe was built in 1983 (verified by serial number), was in operation for 2 years in a prototype room at a big tech company here, and then went into a storage when they "upgraded" to cnc. It sat in storage until 5 years ago, when the current owner (previous owner now! woohoo!) pulled it out with the intent to use it - he installed the dro, and the light and... then it sat until now.

    He was actually able to borrow a RPC and power it up for me. Super smooth, zero vibrations all the way up through the rpms. Everything works as best I could test it, and there isn't a nic anywhere on this thing.

    I brought home the first load of parts today. Including a mag chuck, and the original paper work on the lathe! how cool is that!?

    I am beyond stoked!




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    If your real interested in turning a quick profit I will give you $7100.00 for it.

    Seriously, good deal! The last HLV-Hs that sold new went for near $80K and you got a very near new one. Do not let it tip over on the way home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithprocess View Post
    Well, good news. It's legit, and it's mine.
    ...
    and there isn't a nic anywhere on this thing.
    ...
    you have to put one on somewhere where it hurts the least, else you'll be afraid of using it because of the fear of putting one on it

    grats on the acquisition!

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    Such a deal! Once in a lifetime win right there.
    You basically found the Corvette in the garage, for sale by the little ole lady.....except its a Hardinge lathe. Even better IMHO.

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    The 5C shank with male center and unbalanced offset dog driver is not for use on a lathe. It is part of the equipment that came with a Hardinge dividing head, specially designed for use with the Hardinge UM or TM horizontal mills. Now we can speculate that the original owner of the lathe also had a pristine UM with all the spiral milling options laid away somewhere.

    The 5C male center with no dog driver is the one for the lathe. The lathe dog driver mounts on the spindle nose like the chucks do.

    Larry

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    You better take this in the spirit intended.

    You Fucking SUCK!

    Or, more to the point, Geez, I wish I got their first!

    $7K, ya done so good, so good, so good.....

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    Thanks yall. I may have mentioned but... in case you missed it, I am SO stoked! Ive been making all my parts on a delta rockwell homecraft until now - talk about an upgrade!

    Question from a newbie hlvh owner: there is a collet inside / behind the 3-jaw thats on the lathe now. Is that typical? Ive heard not to run these without a collet in place so that would make sense to leave one in there even when a chuck is on. Do I have that right?

    Now on to the fun part: what do yall recommend for powering this from my home 220v. For my bridgeport I used a VFD. Same thing here? Will the Hardinge be happy with that, and will I need multiple VFDs to power the different motors?

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    Fantastic! Congratulations!!!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithprocess View Post
    Thanks yall. I may have mentioned but... in case you missed it, I am SO stoked! Ive been making all my parts on a delta rockwell homecraft until now - talk about an upgrade!

    Question from a newbie hlvh owner: there is a collet inside / behind the 3-jaw thats on the lathe now. Is that typical? Ive heard not to run these without a collet in place so that would make sense to leave one in there even when a chuck is on. Do I have that right?

    Now on to the fun part: what do yall recommend for powering this from my home 220v. For my bridgeport I used a VFD. Same thing here? Will the Hardinge be happy with that, and will I need multiple VFDs to power the different motors?
    There are too many motors in that lathe to hook a single VFD to the input plug. Though I did read somewhere that the newest VFD's can handle that sort of circuit. Maybe. A rotary phase converter is the easy way to power it from a single phase supply because it is as simple as hooking it up to the input plug on the lathe and making no changes to the lathe wiring. You do have to be careful how you connect the three power wires to get the rotation direction/speed change control and control transformer connected correctly. It is possible to use a VFD to run the main motor, but the wiring for the switches and the other motors and brake is complex.

    Did you get the operator manual? I have not looked at mine for a long time. It is best not to let the lever collet closer rattle around loose in the spindle without a collet. I think they recommend removing the lever collet closer (just one pin to pull) if you want to hold long bar stock in a jaw chuck. If you want to leave the lever closer in place while using a jaw chuck, it is good to tighten it on a non-split collet, like a 5C Morse taper adapter. Squeezing a split collet without a piece of stock in it is bad for the collet.

    Larry

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