New Hardinge HLV owner with questions - Coolant pump and carriage feed

Hello Everyone,
I am a new member of the forum, and a new owner of a Hardinge HLV.
The plate where I think the serial would be is too worn to read, so I can't work out a date, but I think 1963, if the previous seller was right.
I bought this from the civil engineering department of Imperial College London.

My current issues are:

1. The Carriage Feed Motor

2. The coolant pump


With regards to the carriage feed motor -
It worked the first time I tried it, and then the second time it smoked - I'm not sure if it moved and then smoked, or whether it just smoked - the motor not the control box.
I've taken it apart and it looks fine - a bit gunky but nothing out of the ordinary.
I'm waiting for a replacement multimeter to turn up in the post as mine is shot, so this is on hold for the next few days.

The coolant pump -

They obviously ran this with water based coolant - and then left it with it in the tank to rust.
I am disassembling the pump at the moment - I think I could get away with a rebuild if I can find a replacement impeller.
Or make one, if I can see one that isn't completely corroded away.

Are there any diagrams of the coolant pump assembly?

Also are there replacement filtration screens for surrounding the pump?


More generally, are there any basic lubrication tasks I should do to bring the lathe back into comission? (other than cleaning and refilling the apron oil reservoir on the top of the saddle).

Any help would be appreciated!


All the best,
Reuben

Should answer a lot of questions:

Rebuilding a Hardinge HLV Toolroom Lathe

You will have a hard time with finding an impeller. Age is against you.

I think trying to make an impeller for that pump will be more bother than worth unless you really want to keep it original looking.

Easier just to buy one of the cheapies on the market considering how little flow and pressure you will need. That pump appears to be oversized for the application.

Lathes run just fine without coolant, so you can save a lot of work and mess by capping the hole where the pump was mounted.

But water-based coolant has probably done permanent damage to the bed and carriage.

The HLV was built from 1950 to 1960. The serial number will pin it down to a year. Look on the back of the bed at the tailstock end and on the back of the headstock. Hardinge did not put the serial number on aluminum plates, but stamped it into the iron or, on some models, a steel cover plate on the back of the headstock.

Larry

I have the twin of that machine, bought it from the Medway area. My coolant pump was also rotten, probably worse than yours. As Larry says, there's probably bed damage and rust staining under the saddle but worst of all you'll probably need to completely over-haul the apron clutches.

If you're anywhere the North Kent area I'd be happy to provide any help I can.

Thanks all.
I actually ended up fiddling about all day on this instead of getting on with work.
I had some brass stock so I turned up a new impeller and milled out some fins.
The pumps running again and pumping at a fair rate.

I hope there's not too much damage from the water based lubricant. There's certainly no visible rust or damage to the bed. Where should I be looking?

I'll check the serial tomorrow. Thanks for the location tip.

I'm quite local Peter, just in east London. I suppose the only way I can work out if the apron clutches need attention is if I take the carriage apart is it?

I've attached some pictures of the bodged impeller. I have an Arboga milling machine, which is in desperate need of attention, so I'll show the least I can of the butchery.

The serial will be stamped on the top of the collet closer mounting lug on the back of the headstock.

If it's had water based coolant then the clutch bearings are going to be pretty rusted probably, You can remove the clutch release housings by removing the four bolts on each housing on the front of the apron.Wiggle them off and inspect the thrust bearings. Mine were so rusty they had worn through the races into the grub screw.

The damage the others are talking about is like this:-



That happened on a machine that was run with water based coolant and with the carriage motor removed. I suspect that yours won't be anywhere neer as bad!

I ended up re-making all of the gears and shafts in the apron and replaced every single bearing in the lathe with the exception of the main spindle bearings, which were ok after a thorough clean.
Go figure...

You might find there is a film of corrosion/dirt over the serial number on the collet closer mounting lug, the stamping is quite light. This is what they look like:-




As to the motor, The field and armature are fed from separate selenium rectifiers in the electrical box at the headstock end. It's just possible that the field rectifier has given up the ghost and gone open circuit or short circuit. That would cause the motor to have no torque to speak of and to possibly burn the brushes, armature windings and the Variac in the tailstock end control box. If the motor is actually fried, you may have to make friends with a rewinding company. The motors are hard to get hold of but their construction isn't rocket surgery. If the control electrics are fried It is possible to replace them witha solid state DC motor controller at a very reasonable price. This may happen because selenium rectifiers decay when not used, they can be re-formed if not damaged though. The Variac is also a delicate beast.


Good luck with the project. They are well worth the effort if you can restore them to good conditon.

I've been trying to get an impeller for my HLV-H from Hardinge for a little while now. They respond to my emails saying they'll look into it and I never hear back. Can you post a picture of your finished impeller? I may make one myself.

Dweed144,
It's nice to get the coolant pump in shape. You should get a splash guard too.

I have a coolant pump that works. I have never used it cutting metal.

Ok, so I will get to the apron clutches and see how they look. Unless they look perfect I guess I should just disassemble the whole saddle and check it all over.

It was definitely a needless task getting the coolant pump up and running. I'm rarely, if ever, going to use it, I imagine, but otherwise I would have never faced up to the rusting goo back there.

I have had the compound and cross slide off and given them a clean up. There is some adjustment to do on the gibs to get them running nicely and without any slop. I can definitely see some movement in them when I start to take a big cut.

Thanks for the tips on the motor, Mark. I will start testing once I get a replacement multimeter.

Sean, I've attached a basic drawing of my impeller. Not sure if it's the most sensible/effective design, but it was certainly quick.

So I did as you said, Paul, and removed the clutch release housings. I've attached a photo.
They looked well lubricated in grease. The grease was red/brown in colour, which made me think it was rusty goo, but it didn't smell of rust at all and underneath the grease all the metal looked in good condition.
If that can be taken as a good sign for the condition of the carriage then maybe I won't take it apart at present...

They look great. Wish mine looked like that when I pulled them apart.

You should be able to access the grub screw in that thick collar by removing the hex screw cap in the side of the housing (when it's assembled). That's how you adjust the clutch-point on the lever. There's a procedure written somewhere here that covers the process.

Great, thanks for the drawing!