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New to milling buying a Bridgeport Round Ram J head questions about the motor

Meison

Plastic
Joined
May 13, 2020
Hello,

thanks in advance to all that share their knowledge in this forum, is a very practical place to find good info. I live waaaaaaaay south (Uruguay) to the US so it makes it really hard to get information and parts. I apologise in advance for my poor english as its my third language, how I can make myself understood well enough.

I'm buying the following bridgeport mill, the question I have is about the motor, my knowledge about electricy is basci I would say, usually I do 12v stuff on cars and ECU's, nothing like this. Here's some pictures of the plate on the side of the motor.

IMG-20200512-WA0003.jpg

IMG-20200512-WA0005.jpg

IMG-20200512-WA0004.jpg


Maybe I got it wrong but is it a single phase connected as a twophase at 220v? I will post pictures of the conections inside soon, but I believe I can run it with single phase connected as the left option on the plate?

IMG-20200511-WA0076.jpg


How it was when found
IMG-20200511-WA0006.jpg


After some disasembly
IMG-20200511-WA0012.jpg


Any input will be appreciated. Thanks
 

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Motor plate shows 220 2-Phase as shipped. It can be 440 2-Phase and the connections need to be checked. Get an electrician-some one with good electrical skills for machinery.

Some images from the manual:


J-head.jpg1.jpg2.jpg3.jpg4.jpg

The manual for the "Round Ram" Bridgeport is still available Here:
Bridgeport
Scroll down to : Round-Ram-Turret-Bridgeport-Mill-Manual.pdf
and clink on the link. The size of the manual is about 21M.
This should automatically down load a copy of the manual.
The manual will have information about the M-Head and the
milling head your machine has, the J-head.
The manual will not have information regarding electrical requirements for the motor.

John
 
Motor plate shows 220 2-Phase as shipped. It can be 440 2-Phase and the connections need to be checked. Get an electrician-some one with good electrical skills for machinery.

Some images from the manual:
View attachment 288493View attachment 288494View attachment 288495View attachment 288496View attachment 288497
John

Thanks for the images, is it a J head indeed? Or is it a series 1 M head? Soon it would be here, and I will have an electrical engineer look at it before plugging it
 
Two phase is not single phase.
Do you have two phase power to run it?
Link to wiki page on two phase power:
Two-phase electric power - Wikipedia

Another link asking about running a two phase motor on 1ph:
Can I run two phase motor single phase? - Quora

Excerpt from link:
"If you are fortunate enough to find a nigh obsolete, working two phase motor, trying to start it with single phase power will fail at best and burn it up at worse. Just like a single phase induction motor requires a capacitor and auxiliary windings to start, a two phase motor requires two phases of power with 90 electrical degrees phase difference. To achieve that phase shift with single phase AC would require a lot of capacitance.

So, I’ll say no, you can’t run a two phase motor on single phase without a lot of modifications."
 
Two phase is not single phase.
Do you have two phase power to run it?
Link to wiki page on two phase power:
Two-phase electric power - Wikipedia

Another link asking about running a two phase motor on 1ph:
Can I run two phase motor single phase? - Quora

Excerpt from link:
"If you are fortunate enough to find a nigh obsolete, working two phase motor, trying to start it with single phase power will fail at best and burn it up at worse. Just like a single phase induction motor requires a capacitor and auxiliary windings to start, a two phase motor requires two phases of power with 90 electrical degrees phase difference. To achieve that phase shift with single phase AC would require a lot of capacitance.

So, I’ll say no, you can’t run a two phase motor on single phase without a lot of modifications."

first of all thanks for the data, in the same quora link right below that answers
"A two phase motor is single phase motor, unless you mean 230 volt versus 115 Volts. it goes from single phase to three phase, Any two legs of three phase which is single phase 230. Running a 230 volt motor on 115 the power will be down to 1/4 rated power. May not start under load."

Maybe I should mention where I live we only have 230v 50hz, maybe using a VFD as I have seen others do it from threephase to singlephase using them, only using 2 of the 3 phase with 230v both, maybe I can set it up with the 90°?
 
Thanks for the images, is it a J head indeed? Or is it a series 1 M head?

J-head, better than the M-Head.
The J-Head accepts R-8 collets. Any hiding in the storage compartment on the side?
Missing the crank handle for the knee, quill down feed handle, little knob for the quill feed-left side of head, and the ball-crank handle for the left side of the table.

Machine dimensions and basic machine images:
Turret with M-Head.jpgBasic Machine-1.jpgBasic Machine-2.jpg
 
first of all thanks for the data, in the same quora link right below that answers
"A two phase motor is single phase motor, unless you mean 230 volt versus 115 Volts. it goes from single phase to three phase, Any two legs of three phase which is single phase 230. Running a 230 volt motor on 115 the power will be down to 1/4 rated power. May not start under load."

I am not sure the second guy on quora (you quoted) even knows what 2 phase power is, or thinks the original question was mistakenly calling a single phase (2 wire) motor a 2 phase motor. The first guy at least knows that 2 phase power is (or was) a real thing. It is NOT single phase like he is saying.
 
I am not sure the second guy on quora (you quoted) even knows what 2 phase power is, or thinks the original question was mistakenly calling a single phase (2 wire) motor a 2 phase motor. The first guy at least knows that 2 phase power is (or was) a real thing. It is NOT single phase like he is saying.

Ok, no worries I'm still not plugging it in. Yes its missing all handles, no R8 pieces, I will have to buy everything new with time, handles I will probably fabricate some for the meantime. There are some cast parts broken where the bolts attach to the base, so no circular movement going to happen, I wasn't planning on using it anyways, but to give accurate status of the machine.
 
Back with some updates, check the pics for the status of the machine, seems like it is pretty worn, no fish scale pattern in sight, some marks, etc. The first pic you can check the iron cast parts broken, this will take time to fix but its not the first time I have to weld cast iron, lucky me yay! (sarcasm just in case you missed)

I will upload a couple of videos showing how it looked before I gave it a scotchbrite pass with a bit of w80 just to get the surface crap out of the way to take this pictures

IMG-20200515-073303.jpg

IMG-20200515-073310.jpg

IMG-20200515-173244.jpg

IMG-20200515-173252.jpg

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Yesterday I called the two biggest machinist shops in Uruguay, asking for a straight edge camel back or anything like it to check the plane on the mill, place some blue dye and see the real situation of the wear.

Answer? Big nono, no straightedge or flat blank bars for sale, not even considering on selling them on the future, asked for the hand scrapper tool, they didn't have one either. Asked if they had any old parts for the bridgeport in stock maybe, also a big no.

I would love to hear some opinions on how to proceed, I will try to make a straightedge blank bar at the machine shop at my college, but everything is closed due to the pandemic so also a big no no there.
 
Appearance of the machine ways ......do not worry about it.
Get the mill functional first.
Does it drill & tap holes on location? Cut a straight keyway? Bore a circular non tapered hole to depth?
Can a flat surface be milled to a parallel width? + or - .001 is common if the vise and vise parallels are decent.
Forget a straight edge for now. Lack of scrapping marks could mean the machine left the factory that way.
Look for scrapping marks on the top and bottom of the saddle....underside of the table.
A good machinist will make good parts on a worn out machine.
The bottom of the turret is a problem. A used mill is the only part source.
John
 
Appearance of the machine ways ......do not worry about it.
Get the mill functional first.
Does it drill & tap holes on location? Cut a straight keyway? Bore a circular non tapered hole to depth?
Can a flat surface be milled to a parallel width? + or - .001 is common if the vise and vise parallels are decent.
Forget a straight edge for now. Lack of scrapping marks could mean the machine left the factory that way.
Look for scrapping marks on the top and bottom of the saddle....underside of the table.
A good machinist will make good parts on a worn out machine.
The bottom of the turret is a problem. A used mill is the only part source.
John

I still have to dissambly the top part to clean and re grease everything, it was functioning before sold, or that is the claim from the seller who's a friend of mine. I believe in what you say about making good parts on a worn out machine, one must adapt.

When you say "the bottom of the turret is a problem" means its that bad that you can notice from far? Could you exlpain to me why is it that bad?

Also even if I get it running after adapting a single phase motor, I still need to buy a R8 kit and some bits to get started, machine came empty, not a single accesorie or tool
 
Maybe it is the photo. To me it looks like sections of the circular T-slot missing.
See the circled area on the photo.
View attachment 288819

Yes its exactly what I mentioned above a few posts back, parts of the cast iron where the bolts go, where the circular movement of the head occurs isn't going to work. I can weld cast, but this will take some time to fix propperly. Both inside and outside parts of the T slot is missing, about 10 pieces total. Someone must have tightned the bolts WAAAAAAY to hard
 








 
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