Old Hardinge Turret Lathe; 1925

Hello, I just recently picked up an old Hardinge lathe that I'd like to restore/fix if possible. From the research I've done I think it's a quick change swing style lathe, date mark on the tail end of the bed reads 25. There is a stamped plate on the headstock that reads L1191. I've seen pictures and illustrations of similar lathes but I don't think this is a toolroom model with the threading gears on the headstock. It has a pretty sloppy paintjob, in some places where there probably shouldn't be paint. Spindle is smooth but very tight/difficult to turn. Came with a crossslide that I'm sure isn't original.

I'll try and have a link to the album with the pictures I took of it on this post. This is my first thread so please bear with me if I haven't done this correctly.

I've seen a few catalogues with similar models but i haven't seen mention of a turret setup. I'm hoping that someone with more knowledge about these old Hardinge lathes can shed some light on what parts are original, what's hacked together and maybe if it's even salvageable? Mostly I'm having trouble figuring out how to remove the spindle. With the little research I've done I guess these older headstocks are pretty complex inside? Only place I see that could receive a wrench for unscrewing the spindle is some notching on the back end, any better ideas?

Thanks for taking the time to read,
Xavier

XavierC57's Library | Photobucket

You seem to have a Hardinge Cataract "Turret Tool Post Lathe." It is missing parts and has been modified. This is what later was developed into the model HCT chucker.

It is not a quick change swing lathe, though a few of the parts may be similar or identical to those on a QC. QC owners might want to look into parting this thing out to help restore a QC.

The number plate is not from Hardinge. Businesses often added inventory number plates to their machines.

You do not need a wrench to take the headstock apart. A screwdriver is all you need to get the spindle out. Try not to wreck anything.

Picture from Catalog 15. Note that the turret is a flat plate with T-slots. Each T-slot has its own tool post of various types. That is the same system used on the modern chuckers.

Larry

Thanks for the reply.
So, it seems this is more of a parts machine then? I was hoping to get it running again but at the same time a turret setup isn't really what I'm after.

What's the technique for taking the headstock apart? Do you know of a good resource I can look at to do this properly?

About halfway down this page, you will see four nearly identical cross sectional drawings of Cataract bench lathe headstocks. As far as I know, the TTP lathes are very similar in construction. Note that the spindle is attached to the step pulley with dog point slotted set screws topped with short flat end slotted set screws. Once the lever collet closer serrated cap is pulled off the left end of the spindle, just remove the four set screws and slide the spindle to the right, out of the pulley and bearings. The bearings are fragile and it may be best to leave them alone. Once the bearings are broken, the head is only suited for parts.

Catarcat Lathes

The catalog page mentions that they would make these lathes with a choice of collet types. You should figure out what size you have. The one that takes 5C collets is probably most useful if the lathe is actually to be run.

Larry

I don't recognize the headstock on your lathe. It's different than the one that is shown for the Hardinge Cataract "Turret Tool Post Lathe" that Larry showed you. But assuming it's close to the Cataract quick change swing lathe, then I imagine the spindle nose was threaded like they had. And since it's set up for the lead-screw/follower type of threading, the aft end of the spindle may be like that of the Hardinge chucker lathes and may look like this:


You can see the entire spindle of the Cataract quick change swing lathe by scrolling about half way down this page:
Hardinge Cataract Screwcutting Toolroom Lathe

So what is on the front of your spindle should unscrew. And the back end stuff should unscrew also, since that end may have the threads for the lead screw retaining nut. Then you can follow Larry's comments about removing the spindle.

Irby

I unscrewed the chuck plate off the front of the spindle, which is threaded right up to the end of the nose? (I hope I'm using the right terminology)The toothed nut on the left of the spindle has not come off yet, it seems locked up but I don't want to break anything inside by torquing on it with a pipe wrench.
The threads on the right end of the spindle are pretty chewed up, repaired at some point.
The taper inside is also damaged.

I pulled the collet off and am currently trying to identify it. I think it's a 20c?
OD of collet head: 3"
OD of collet body: 2.3"
Length: 6"
The lathe came with four sets of four pads for the collet: 7/8", 1", 1 1/8", 1 5/16"
OD of collet draw tube: 2.7"
Length of draw tube: 14.25"

The distance from the top of the bed to center of spindle is 6", was this a common size?
It seems like there are some things on this lathe that aren't standard and I'm wandering
if this lathe has just been heavily modified or was purpose built from factory.

I've added pictures to this album, let me know if this is the best way to see the pictures.

Hardinge Turret Lathe by XavierC57 | Photobucket

I appreciate the links, interesting seeing original illustrations like those.

Xavier

XavierC, the nose end of that spindle suffered some major catastrophe at some point in its history. I have a hard time imagining exactly what happened, but a significant hole in the spindle, just inboard of the threads, has been welded shut and it looks like there is still a monstrous gouge in the shoulder just left of that repaired hole. Considering that damage, it's a minor miracle there's that much of the (presumably damaged at the same time) threads left on that side of the spindle.

Xavier

That's pretty rare lathe. It looks to be mostly complete with the exception of the headstock accessories for threading, and the turret itself looks home made.

As far as the spindle, that's a shame it was broken, but maybe it is still functional??? I have a feeling it was modified to fit larger collets because the wall thickness on the spindle nose looks VERY thin, and is probably why it broke. I think these were originally made to take up to 7c collets.

Were you able to get some kind of drive with the lathe? or maybe just a matching 2-step pulley to use?

Tyler

"I think these were originally made to take up to 7c collets."

The catalog page I posted earlier spoke in terms of bar capacity rather than collet type, but did say that the lathes could be ordered with what we would call 3C through 7C collet capacity. The practice of naming collets came later. When the lathe was built, Hardinge used the term wire chucks or draw back chucks for what we call collets. The Cataract No. 5 draw back chuck eventually became famous as the 5C collet.

Here are catalog pages that show pictures and dimensions of the 1C through 7C collets and some other old collets.

Larry

I added a couple photos to the same album, of the front of the headstock where I think is the serial number. The number "2" is stamped directly under the spindle. On the other end of the bed is stamped "No. 25". I'm assuming these are close enough to where this headstock is original to the bed, if so does someone know how old this lathe is?
Hardinge Turret Lathe by XavierC57 | Photobucket

I'm ordering the felt tonight to replace what was already in the bearings. Do you have a recommendation on oil to use for the spindle? Is it fine to use motor oil? I'm guessing thinner is better for this wick system.

Hopefully I can get this running within a couple weeks. When I bought the lathe included was the pedestal/gears and a 1 1/2hp motor. I haven't tested the motor yet and if I'm going to use the stand that was included I'll need to bolt it to my garage floor. Which I'm not opposed to but it's a lot of extra space, I might fabricate a more compact system.

Xavier