Hardinge HLV Power

TannerS. · Jan 23, 2021

Apologies if this has been covered before, but I haven't been able to find a straight forward answer to this problem.

I just acquired a Hardinge HLV (Predecessor to the HLV-H) and I am working on getting it powered up. However, I'm finding the wiring to be clear as mud. The machine tag on the lathe says 440V, but the motor says 220V, as does the big switch box on the back where the power comes in. I'd feel inclined to roll with this being a 220V machine had this not been the only machine running off the, allegedly, 440V panel at the shop I got it from. I'm confused. Does anyone have any insight into what I'm dealing with here? I have access to a 440v step-up transformer if it's needed.

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L Vanice · Jan 23, 2021

The electrical plate on the lathe shows it was sold with a 440 V motor. The motor is apparently the original motor, because Hardinge did use Diehl two-speed motors back then. The motor nameplate has the 440 stamp defaced and replaced with a new 220 stamp. So I would say the original motor was rewound to 220 V.

Larry

TannerS. · Jan 24, 2021

L Vanice said:
The electrical plate on the lathe shows it was sold with a 440 V motor. The motor is apparently the original motor, because Hardinge did use Diehl two-speed motors back then. The motor nameplate has the 440 stamp defaced and replaced with a new 220 stamp. So I would say the original motor was rewound to 220 V.

Larry

Thanks for the insight Larry. I was surprised to see the 220v on the plate after seeing so many threads going into detail about how much of a hassle converting these machines can be.

The part that makes me hesitant to try it on my 220v circuit is the shop I got it from was supposedly running it on a 440v circuit. I never saw this, that's just what I was told. With the motor converted, would there still be a need for 440v input? Or should it be safe to give it a try on my 220v vfd?

L Vanice · Jan 24, 2021

You will not harm a 440 V motor by trying to run it on 220 V from a VFD. You would use a VFD on this motor by only hooking it to the highspeed windings. If a 440 V motor starts on 220 V, it will have lower than design torque. If the motor runs well on 220 V and has the expected torque, then it is likely designed for 220 V. You can burn up the windings of a 220 V motor running it on 440 V, so I advise against trying it that way. It will be tricky to set the parameters on your VFD because the current ratings on the motor plate are for 440 V and you would double them for 220V.

Look at the lathe controls and examine any transformer or starter coils to see if they are marked with voltage ratings. If there are overloads, figure out what current the heaters are rated for. Is the power cord fitted with a male plug? If so, it should have a design voltage marked on it because 220 V plugs are physically different from 440 V plugs. In industry, plugs are seldom used for non-portable equipment but we don't know what sort of place last used the lathe.

Larry

Mark Rand · Jan 24, 2021

Also, the contactors and brake solenoid will probably chatter like buggery if they are suppplied with half the correct voltage. So if they are quiet at 220V then they've also been changed/modified to suit.

TannerS. · Jan 24, 2021

L Vanice said:
You will not harm a 440 V motor by trying to run it on 220 V from a VFD. You would use a VFD on this motor by only hooking it to the highspeed windings. If a 440 V motor starts on 220 V, it will have lower than design torque. If the motor runs well on 220 V and has the expected torque, then it is likely designed for 220 V. You can burn up the windings of a 220 V motor running it on 440 V, so I advise against trying it that way. It will be tricky to set the parameters on your VFD because the current ratings on the motor plate are for 440 V and you would double them for 220V.

Look at the lathe controls and examine any transformer or starter coils to see if they are marked with voltage ratings. If there are overloads, figure out what current the heaters are rated for. Is the power cord fitted with a male plug? If so, it should have a design voltage marked on it because 220 V plugs are physically different from 440 V plugs. In industry, plugs are seldom used for non-portable equipment but we don't know what sort of place last used the lathe.

Larry

I will give hardwiring it to my VFD a try this afternoon and see how the motor reacts. The machine was originally hardwired into a cable hung from the ceiling, though the shop was fairly large so it wouldn't surprise me if most machines had designated power inputs.

As for the transformer- it looks to me based on the schematic on the side access panel that the transformer steps 220v down to 150v. There is a pencil mark on it that says 150v which goes to the various controls on the control box. I don't see any markings on the transformer itself though.

Looking in the box, a lot of the components look to be original and have voltage ranges up to 600v. Not terribly helpful. I'm not very savy when it comes to electrical work, so I may be missing something.

I did notice there are a total of 7 leads going to the motor.

Mark Rand said:
Also, the contactors and brake solenoid will probably chatter like buggery if they are suppplied with half the correct voltage. So if they are quiet at 220V then they've also been changed/modified to suit.

I will keep an ear out when I get it wired up. Fingers crossed!

TannerS. · Jan 25, 2021

Quick update: I had a conversation with Paul over at Hardinge Repair and Precision Machine Tool Service. We determined the lathe is meant to run 220v. After hooking it up to the VFD I use for my mill, it started up and ran just fine. No clicking noises or issues once up and running.

The only notable thing was a brief droning sound upon start up. The spindle didn't jump right to speed, it took a couple seconds to wind up. Not sure if this is normal. I doubt it is an issue with the parameters on the VFD as I have an auxiliary on/off switch I turned on to let the VFD ramp up before turning on the knife switch at the back of the machine. As I'm writing this, that sounds like a bad idea and perhaps I should have turned on the VFD after switching on the knife switch.

To preserve the controls of the machine, is it possible to use a VFD? Or will I need a RPC to do so safely? I'd hate to blow up the VFD by not having any load on the circuit.

rons · Jan 25, 2021

TannerS. said:
To preserve the controls of the machine, is it possible to use a VFD? Or will I need a RPC to do so safely? I'd hate to blow up the VFD by not having any load on the circuit.

You should not connect a VFD to the outside of the stock electrical box.
Use a RPC for that. I use a RPC on two machines and VFD's for the others. The machines for the VFD is usually a drill press or air compressor. Unless you go one step further and alter the machine. If that is the case there is nothing wrong with it. But in my opinion it is better not to permanently alter the machine so that it
cannot be configured to it's original design.

Mark Rand · Jan 25, 2021

TannerS. said:
To preserve the controls of the machine, is it possible to use a VFD? Or will I need a RPC to do so safely? I'd hate to blow up the VFD by not having any load on the circuit.

That's what I've been doing for the last 10 years...

Some people say they wouldn't do that. Others do it.

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