5 axis cam package
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 53
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default 5 axis cam package

    Hey all, so we're looking at purchasing a solid cam package to do complex 5 axis work with, compressor wheels and such. from the research i've done, the top 3 candidates are Hypermill, Mastercam and Powermill. looking for pros and cons and personal experience with support from each one to help us make the decision. so far we got a quote for mastercam, just under 50k for 3d mill, multiaxis, port expert and blade expert with 5k of that being just annual maintenance. does that seem reasonable?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1227
    Likes (Received)
    3516

    Default

    Price sounds about right. I used MC for about 15 years, but went with Hypermill. By comparison, MC is a joke. Hypermill's impeller package blows blade expert away. No experience with powermill.

  3. Likes empwoer liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1462
    Likes (Received)
    1581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    Hey all, so we're looking at purchasing a solid cam package to do complex 5 axis work with, compressor wheels and such. from the research i've done, the top 3 candidates are Hypermill, Mastercam and Powermill. looking for pros and cons and personal experience with support from each one to help us make the decision. so far we got a quote for mastercam, just under 50k for 3d mill, multiaxis, port expert and blade expert with 5k of that being just annual maintenance. does that seem reasonable?
    NX has a pretty sweet package for impeller machining, stupid easy and straightforward once you see how to use it. Does is make good code, like real code that works in your machine, don't know that. Is the rest of the 5 axis machining as intuitive and straightforward, again don't know, but I would think NX would be up there for 5 axis cam packages?

  5. Likes empwoer liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    Price sounds about right. I used MC for about 15 years, but went with Hypermill. By comparison, MC is a joke. Hypermill's impeller package blows blade expert away. No experience with powermill.
    how did you learn to use it? training from hypermill? how difficult was it to get used to the interface/controls?

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    NX has a pretty sweet package for impeller machining, stupid easy and straightforward once you see how to use it. Does is make good code, like real code that works in your machine, don't know that. Is the rest of the 5 axis machining as intuitive and straightforward, again don't know, but I would think NX would be up there for 5 axis cam packages?
    i know NX makes great code and has fantastic simulation also. it could be a contender for sure, i dont know how good support is for it though.

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Temecula, Ca
    Posts
    2,684
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1227
    Likes (Received)
    3516

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    how did you learn to use it? training from hypermill? how difficult was it to get used to the interface/controls?
    I had a weeks training from Hypermill. Took a little getting used to, but not too hard. Another huge point. Whenever I run into a snag I can email my file to Hypermill, and they usually get back to me with an answer within a couple hours. MC's customer support is pathetic. Every time you call, everyone is out of the office and your lucky if you get a call back the same week.

  9. Likes empwoer liked this post
  10. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1462
    Likes (Received)
    1581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I had a weeks training from Hypermill. Took a little getting used to, but not too hard. Another huge point. Whenever I run into a snag I can email my file to Hypermill, and they usually get back to me with an answer within a couple hours. MC's customer support is pathetic. Every time you call, everyone is out of the office and your lucky if you get a call back the same week.
    Entirely dependant on location. In FL it sucked. In IN it was great! Same day for almost everything, and on the rare occasion they didn't have an answer or fix they could get you going with a work around.

  11. Likes empwoer, Mtndew liked this post
  12. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Dickman View Post
    I had a weeks training from Hypermill. Took a little getting used to, but not too hard. Another huge point. Whenever I run into a snag I can email my file to Hypermill, and they usually get back to me with an answer within a couple hours. MC's customer support is pathetic. Every time you call, everyone is out of the office and your lucky if you get a call back the same week.
    i'm really unhappy with our MC reseller, about 99% sure we wont go with them just because of how they treated us in the quoting process.

    its such bullshit that you're stuck with the reseller that deals in your area, we have another one thats just about as far away from us that i have experience with, great customer service, but we cant get it from them because we're just a few miles out of their service area. what a fucked system. definitely soured my taste for MC, as if i didnt have enough gripes about the software itself...

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    447
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    30
    Likes (Received)
    239

    Default

    Powermill seemed to have much better automation potential than Hypermill, but talking to a high end shop around here they use a ton of barrel cutters and Hypermill is supposedly much better at driving them. Hypermill is also three times the price... I think it depends on what you want to do which would come out on top. Obviously the price difference doesn't mean anything if you need something that only a more expensive software can get you!

    We went through demos of everything lately and "our" programmer that has spent years with MC said its 5-axis is a joke compared to PM or HM after seeing them.

  14. Likes empwoer liked this post
  15. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Finsta View Post
    Powermill seemed to have much better automation potential than Hypermill, but talking to a high end shop around here they use a ton of barrel cutters and Hypermill is supposedly much better at driving them. Hypermill is also three times the price... I think it depends on what you want to do which would come out on top. Obviously the price difference doesn't mean anything if you need something that only a more expensive software can get you!

    We went through demos of everything lately and "our" programmer that has spent years with MC said its 5-axis is a joke compared to PM or HM after seeing them.
    does anyone have concrete #'s for hypermill? i had a brief conversation with a hypermill rep, i guess they're all in germany this week for training so we didnt get to talk in much detail, but i think he mentioned something like 26k?

    i hate this shit SOOOOOOOOO much... having to go through a fucking ordeal just to get a price on a product, what an outdated methodology.

  16. #11
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    838
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    932
    Likes (Received)
    494

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    i'm really unhappy with our MC reseller, about 99% sure we wont go with them just because of how they treated us in the quoting process.
    I have been able to purchase Mastercam through an alternate dealer in the past. Call CNC Software and talk to them.

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    278
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    77
    Likes (Received)
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    i know NX makes great code and has fantastic simulation also. it could be a contender for sure, i dont know how good support is for it though.
    Support through Siemens is top notch but support through a VAR can be hit and miss unfortunately. I definitely recommend going through Siemens if possible but have heard small accounts are sometimes channeled through VAR's.

    I agree on NX's simulation. Of all the NX users I know from the PLM World RUG most of them use native simulation and the few who use Vericut were using it before they switched to NX. It's quite bizarre to me that some companies use/support multiple softwares.

  18. Likes AHUNT liked this post
  19. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1462
    Likes (Received)
    1581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by empwoer View Post
    does anyone have concrete #'s for hypermill? i had a brief conversation with a hypermill rep, i guess they're all in germany this week for training so we didnt get to talk in much detail, but i think he mentioned something like 26k?

    i hate this shit SOOOOOOOOO much... having to go through a fucking ordeal just to get a price on a product, what an outdated methodology.

    I hear you. I doubt you will get any numbers (at least that matter). Even if you went to a reseller and said "Hey, I got prices from xx guys for xx dollars" They will likely spin some BS on you anyways, because that salesman, or that office, needs to make their cut.

    Is it only 5 axis you need? Are you replacing a current cam system for better 5ax functionality? Just curious. Need to weight the pros and cons (duh LoL) of each system in regards to your product. Just thinking out loud here... You might love Hypermill or Powermill (for example, I have never used either) for your intended 5ax parts, but realize the workflow craps out for simple 3ax stuff. OR you realize all your parts are 'familiar' enough once you work thru a couple it becomes simple (to you) and you really wish you hadn't paid for all the glitz!

    Example- (obviously just my opinion )
    NX has some kickass tools that I barely got to play with so I am sure they get even better with experience! BUT.. it is not user friendly IMO. Lots and lots of things need to be set up, and to me they aren't clear where to go and even how to do it, even after using for a while and taking a class. I would hate to have to use it everyday for what I am programming now. Defining speeds and feeds for every op (with same tools), navigating to a seperate window (why the FUCK did they do that anyways?!?) EVERY SINGLE TIME to enable/turn on 'start events' (coolant) etc.* For what I do the MCX workflow is fantastic and NX would have me pulling my hair out.

    *I am sure there are better ways, but I never had a chance to learn them, and even using the online learning and submitting tickets we were met with alot of "that is how you do it, no that can't be done" etc

  20. Likes empwoer liked this post
  21. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Florida
    Posts
    3,337
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1462
    Likes (Received)
    1581

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Qwan View Post
    Support through Siemens is top notch but support through a VAR can be hit and miss unfortunately. I definitely recommend going through Siemens if possible but have heard small accounts are sometimes channeled through VAR's.

    I agree on NX's simulation. Of all the NX users I know from the PLM World RUG most of them use native simulation and the few who use Vericut were using it before they switched to NX. It's quite bizarre to me that some companies use/support multiple softwares.

    This has me stumped (sorry to derail your thread some OP). Maybe I am just used to something different. I thought the sim was not very good (visually) and missing a few easy buttons IMO. Sure, auto stock 'tracking' (or whatever you call it) could be nice, but hated how I had to regen ops if I moved them around (maybe not actually related to the sim function). Want to move that spot op below the next (spot, same tool) one, REGEN all!

    Is there a way to stop the sim on tool change, or op change (found the crash stop after some help form Siemens, why is that buried anyhow??)? If there is, someone needs to make a demo of it, and better yet, get it out there for public knowledge!!

  22. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    816
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    36
    Likes (Received)
    108

    Default

    There's WorkNC that you could consider too. We've been using it for 25 years, and although I can't speak specifically about impeller blades, I do know that it's got 3 specific paths just for impellers.

  23. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    I hear you. I doubt you will get any numbers (at least that matter). Even if you went to a reseller and said "Hey, I got prices from xx guys for xx dollars" They will likely spin some BS on you anyways, because that salesman, or that office, needs to make their cut.

    Is it only 5 axis you need? Are you replacing a current cam system for better 5ax functionality? Just curious. Need to weight the pros and cons (duh LoL) of each system in regards to your product. Just thinking out loud here... You might love Hypermill or Powermill (for example, I have never used either) for your intended 5ax parts, but realize the workflow craps out for simple 3ax stuff. OR you realize all your parts are 'familiar' enough once you work thru a couple it becomes simple (to you) and you really wish you hadn't paid for all the glitz!

    Example- (obviously just my opinion )
    NX has some kickass tools that I barely got to play with so I am sure they get even better with experience! BUT.. it is not user friendly IMO. Lots and lots of things need to be set up, and to me they aren't clear where to go and even how to do it, even after using for a while and taking a class. I would hate to have to use it everyday for what I am programming now. Defining speeds and feeds for every op (with same tools), navigating to a seperate window (why the FUCK did they do that anyways?!?) EVERY SINGLE TIME to enable/turn on 'start events' (coolant) etc.* For what I do the MCX workflow is fantastic and NX would have me pulling my hair out.

    *I am sure there are better ways, but I never had a chance to learn them, and even using the online learning and submitting tickets we were met with alot of "that is how you do it, no that can't be done" etc
    we currently use fusion, and its great for simple 3d stuff and i'm relatively happy with it for that. but the fact of the matter is, it blows donkey dick at 5 axis, so we mostly need a good system for complex 5 axis stuff like compressor wheels etc.
    i've played with the NX, catia, mastercam, solidcam, fusion, hypermill and powermill interfaces, out of all those fusion and solidcam are the easiest to use and navigate, i love them for that, but they just lack in control. all others SUCK as far as user friendliness/intuitiveness IMO. such a shame that we have to compromise

  24. Likes cameraman liked this post
  25. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,088
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    3430
    Likes (Received)
    2624

    Default

    Think support.....
    Used Powermill for a while.....it made difficult task' easy....made what should have been easy difficult. (just my opinion)
    Here their support was non existent. If you had a problem well....YOU had a problem.

  26. Likes empwoer liked this post
  27. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toolsteel View Post
    Think support.....
    Used Powermill for a while.....it made difficult task' easy....made what should have been easy difficult. (just my opinion)
    Here their support was non existent. If you had a problem well....YOU had a problem.
    yeah, i'm overall quite displeased with autodesk support in general. having to set an appointment to talk to someone is fucking absurd. i cannot put my business on hold to fix an issue with you fucking software.

  28. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Country
    PHILIPPINES
    Posts
    2,286
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    426
    Likes (Received)
    624

    Default

    The foreign owned shop I contract at in China is pretty much Delcam. I've put in 39 seats with Powershape, Powermill, Moldflow, and a few with Power inspect module and they run about 42K per seat with $7500 per seat maintenance yearly. We also have a few seats of Mastercam, NX, and Catia For the guys fresh out of school since NX is predominantly taught in the polytechnics. I really like the Powermill as well as the other programmers as it was easy to pick up on. The training was great, they came in with their projectors and 3 instructors and spent two days classroom with another three on the shop floor. After that most all the shop hasn't needed anymore support but when they do Delcam Knocks it out of the park. I try to hire five new people per month and even then Delcam will send out an instructor and give them one on one in the programming cafe as well as on the floor free of charge as long as we pick up the hotel.

    As one other poster said, "Location" Is key for most any software. Being in China depending on the time we can call USA during the night shift or Europe during day shift. That being said, Delcam is simple to pickup no matter if its basic 3 axis to full on 5 axis. After they get the training they wont even touch Mastercam anymore. NX and Catia seem to be much more powerful and also have really good support. My main concern is ever since Autodesk snatched up Delcam They keep mentioning they are considering going to a cloud licensing. Now, I don't know about anyone else in here but having introduced the possibility of depending on someones server being up somewhere else in the world just so we can write a program makes me a bit uneasy.

  29. Likes empwoer liked this post
  30. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    California
    Posts
    252
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    110

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by g-coder05 View Post
    The foreign owned shop I contract at in China is pretty much Delcam. I've put in 39 seats with Powershape, Powermill, Moldflow, and a few with Power inspect module and they run about 42K per seat with $7500 per seat maintenance yearly. We also have a few seats of Mastercam, NX, and Catia For the guys fresh out of school since NX is predominantly taught in the polytechnics. I really like the Powermill as well as the other programmers as it was easy to pick up on. The training was great, they came in with their projectors and 3 instructors and spent two days classroom with another three on the shop floor. After that most all the shop hasn't needed anymore support but when they do Delcam Knocks it out of the park. I try to hire five new people per month and even then Delcam will send out an instructor and give them one on one in the programming cafe as well as on the floor free of charge as long as we pick up the hotel.

    As one other poster said, "Location" Is key for most any software. Being in China depending on the time we can call USA during the night shift or Europe during day shift. That being said, Delcam is simple to pickup no matter if its basic 3 axis to full on 5 axis. After they get the training they wont even touch Mastercam anymore. NX and Catia seem to be much more powerful and also have really good support. My main concern is ever since Autodesk snatched up Delcam They keep mentioning they are considering going to a cloud licensing. Now, I don't know about anyone else in here but having introduced the possibility of depending on someones server being up somewhere else in the world just so we can write a program makes me a bit uneasy.
    yeah, autodesk is risking alienating a lot of customers by going all cloud based due to ITAR reasons. it does have some benefits, but they dont outweigh the negatives IMO.
    one of the reasons i'm not considering their products very seriously.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •