Advice for CAD software

Hi,

I recently took a local college course in Autocad 2010 in the hopes of getting rid of my mechanical pencils and napkins, and be able to document and archive my shop drawings.

Well the course was interesting, but it focused more on architecture than mechanical, in fact I was the only one in the class with machine shop background. The teacher said not to worry, CAD is CAD.

I have a license for Autocad 2010 Mechanical. The program looks cool but I am not finding it easy to create drawings. Its still way easier for me to draw on paper.

So does anyone have suggestions for a reasonably priced CAD program that is actually easy to use, and so I can retire the dividers, pencils, and straightedges??

Check out Alibre. Several versions from $200 to $2k or so, less if they are running a deal at the moment. Sort of a poor man's SolidWorks, from what I've heard - never tried SW.

Mike

Its always that way, when you are first starting out, it seems (actually is) easier to do on paper. especially for simple things you already know how they should be. But if you are designing something from scratch, CAD is a big help once you get over the hump. Although 2D still has its place and probably always will, 3D modeling is where its at.

PTC, the guys that make Pro-Engineer are going thru a complete rebranding of their products to Creo Elements, and are giving away a personal edition of their Direct Modeling package, Creo Elements Direct PE, for free. It has limitations, like only 60 components in an assembly, and requires an internet conection...etc. But it is free. Although I do use Pro-E at work, I dont like it and wish we could go back to Autodesk Inventor.

give this a try;
Creo Elements/Direct Modeling Personal Edition 3.0 - PTC.com

I'm not intimately familiar with the CAD market as a whole. Seem to be a LOT of lower priced packages out there that may fit the needs of most operations but if I were looking at something easy to learn, that I could grow with and is robust enough to create damned near anything, I'd probably settle on Solidworks.

The community support for it is HUGE; macros, tutorials, advice, you name it, it's out there. I don't think you'd be looking back.

Chuck

I know I'll catch hell for my comment, but since you've said this:

tonystoolroom said:

in the hopes of getting rid of my mechanical pencils and napkins, and be able to document and archive my shop drawings.

Click to expand...

I'm gonna say it anyway.
Keep at AutoCAD! No, it isn't the simplest CAD program from the outset, but one of - if not THE - most powerful you can ever use. There are an incredible amount of tools at your disposal to make your life easy - especially for detailed shop drawings - but those come at the cost of being rather complex looking at first.

As to a quick help to get started, here is an advise: Try to never ever enter a coordinate point. Avoid as much as possible to enter a specific length of a line or whatever. If you find yourself reaching for a calculator, stop and think it over as you're likely doing something wrong or not utilizing the software's capability.
Learn the use of object snaps and live by them.
Learn all the 10+ different ways ACAD provides to create circles and arcs.
Get very used to the offset, trim, extend, chamfer and fillet commands.
Learn how to create angled lines, but worry only about the angle itself, never the length.
Get familiar with the move, copy and rotate, linear array and polar array commands.
Get comfortable with the object selection methods ( left to right window, right to left window, pre-selection and object grips ). Also know how to add or remove entities from your selection and how to recall the previous selection.
Don't worry about borders and title blocks just yet, they will be important later but you can ignore them for now. Do however learn all there is to know about layers and layer controls.

Once you get those, your life will start looking better and will want to reach for a pencil less and less. As you go, you will find that some tasks are a little tedious. In those cases, start looking for different ways of getting it done, the likelyhood of ACAD having a better tool is good.


Oh, one more thing: Bunch of people hate the command line! My guess is that they do so because they don't know what it does or how to use it.
Always! Watch the command line! That is your view into the heart of ACAD and it is also ACAD's billboard to you telling you what it wants or what you can do.

Put the autocad down.

Pick up a free student edition for solidworks 2010

google solid works tutorial. If you are willing and eager you can be a decent cad guy in about a month. Solid works is a lot easier than autocad.


Leave autocad for the building construction groups.

I you haven't tried any solidmodelers look at SpaceClaim, no history, just push/pull type of direct modeler....but many to choose from.
spaceclaim.com

MBG said:

Solid works is a lot easier than autocad.

Click to expand...

And about as useful as tits on a bull for shop drawings.
That BTW goes for Inventor's drawing environment as well.

SeymourDumore said:

And about as useful as tits on a bull for shop drawings.
That BTW goes for Inventor's drawing environment as well.

Click to expand...

NOW NOW, I've made alot of money off of those tited bull's

may not work well for your type of work, but then again you are a AutoCad GURU!

Happy New Year Seymore

SeymourDumore said:

I know I'll catch hell for my comment, but since you've said this:

Keep at AutoCAD! No, it isn't the simplest CAD program from the outset, but one of - if not THE - most powerful you can ever use. There are an incredible amount of tools at your disposal to make your life easy - especially for detailed shop drawings - but those come at the cost of being rather complex looking at first.

As to a quick help to get started, here is an advise: Try to never ever enter a coordinate point. Avoid as much as possible to enter a specific length of a line or whatever. If you find yourself reaching for a calculator, stop and think it over as you're likely doing something wrong or not utilizing the software's capability.
Learn the use of object snaps and live by them.
Learn all the 10+ different ways ACAD provides to create circles and arcs.
Get very used to the offset, trim, extend, chamfer and fillet commands.
Learn how to create angled lines, but worry only about the angle itself, never the length.
Get familiar with the move, copy and rotate, linear array and polar array commands.
Get comfortable with the object selection methods ( left to right window, right to left window, pre-selection and object grips ). Also know how to add or remove entities from your selection and how to recall the previous selection.
Don't worry about borders and title blocks just yet, they will be important later but you can ignore them for now. Do however learn all there is to know about layers and layer controls.


Oh, one more thing: Bunch of people hate the command line! My guess is that they do so because they don't know what it does or how to use it.
Always! Watch the command line! That is your view into the heart of ACAD and it is also ACAD's billboard to you telling you what it wants or what you can do.

Click to expand...

yeah in the class the teacher made us do everything by command line. Only problem is that we did everything in architectural style, so we never got to chamfers, bolt/screws, fillets. Another thing I didn't like with Autocad is that each line is an object, and once created it can't be changed. For instance, lets say you make a line 2.5", you can't edit the properties and make it 3". You have to delete the line and create a new one. I think if you joined all the lines you are up a creek too, don't remember if that can be undone.

Autocad seems like a great program if you eat sleep and breathe it, but for those that need to design, draw, run the shop, do sales and administration, I need a Fisher-Price drawing program, if it exists, otherwise I have to outsource my drafting. But then if I need to change one dimension, it's back to the draftsman. And it's a lot of wasted time with the back & forth, what's this, what's that, correcting mistakes.

tonystoolroom said:

yeah in the class the teacher made us do everything by command line. Only problem is that we did everything in architectural style, so we never got to chamfers, bolt/screws, fillets. Another thing I didn't like with Autocad is that each line is an object, and once created it can't be changed. For instance, lets say you make a line 2.5", you can't edit the properties and make it 3". You have to delete the line and create a new one. I think if you joined all the lines you are up a creek too, don't remember if that can be undone.

Autocad seems like a great program if you eat sleep and breathe it, but for those that need to design, draw, run the shop, do sales and administration, I need a Fisher-Price drawing program, if it exists, otherwise I have to outsource my drafting. But then if I need to change one dimension, it's back to the draftsman. And it's a lot of wasted time with the back & forth, what's this, what's that, correcting mistakes.

Click to expand...

Exactly the reason I've said not to enter any lengths. The length of a line depends on a snap point. This may not make sense as it is, but just ask yourself the question: Why would you change the length of the line from 2.5 to 3" for example?
But if you must, there are 3 different and easy ways to change from 2.5 to 3".
One is CHPROP ( on the command line ) or the Properties icon. You get each and every single part of the entity you've selected, including it's length ( along with start, end point, angle, linetype etc etc )
The other is the "lengthen" command. Works but I hate it.
Lastly, my preferred method: Just extend the line to another entity which is
exactly as far as you want your line to be. That can be either a circle with the 3" rad from your line's start point, or an offset line @3".
This last one will guarantee one thing: Your line will not only be 3" ( or whatever you want ) but will be EXACTLY at the point wherever you NEED!!!

Now as far as the architectural, I see your point and it sucks.
I'd say keep at it and forget about the etch-a-sketch programs, specially if you already have ACAD MDT. You will appreciate it in the long term.
Oh BTW, I am the draftsman, programmer, secretary, janitor and resident whippin' boy of my shop. The better the tool, the easier that part of my job is.

len_1962 said:

NOW NOW, I've made alot of money off of those tited bull's

may not work well for your type of work, but then again you are a AutoCad GURU!

Happy New Year Seymore

Click to expand...

Happy New Year back at you Len!


I wouldn't call myself an ACAD guru by any stretch. I just learned to use it efficiently to make shopfloor drawings where a "sketch" may only be partially ( or barely ) related to the actual part but is a huge aid in the shop for manufacturing.
Also, fully detailing a drawing with all the mfg notes, doodles and geometrical information is much much easier in anything non-parametric CAD.

Not fighting, just stating my preference.

Try the free Solid Edge 2D - Free 2D: PLM?Product Lifecycle Management: Siemens PLM Software

If you want 3D, Solid Edge is a lot like Solid Works only better.

tonystoolroom said:

Another thing I didn't like with Autocad is that each line is an object, and once created it can't be changed. For instance, lets say you make a line 2.5", you can't edit the properties and make it 3". You have to delete the line and create a new one. I think if you joined all the lines you are up a creek too, don't remember if that can be undone.

Click to expand...

Ok, after re-reading my post I think I should have been a little more clear.
1:
Yes, Each and every entity is a single object, just as it is in each and every non true parametric CAD program.
As of ACAD 2010, Autocad CAN BE! a true parametric CAD program, but I do not think you want to use it that way. To do so you'd need to use a different dimension tool AND you'd need to use constraints. For now just forget that your teacher ever said anything about that.

2:
Not true, any and every object in AutoCAD can be changed through it's parameters. ACAD from the get-go ( early 80-s ) was and still remains to be a database driven program. That is, each and every "object" is stored as a vector, defined by geometric parameters. You have access to each and every single value that is used to define said object.

3:
Not true, in a non-parametric ACAD, you don't actually "join" the lines or any entities for that matter. If 2 lines meet at one point, that means that their start and end points do meet in a single and exact point in space, but that's about it. You can always at any time move a line and the intersection no longer exist. What's nice about ACAD is that if you have 2 lines that are dangling in space, you can always just click one of it's "grip" points and drag-snap it to the end of another line, which will make them meet exactly in one single point with neither having any excess portion in any way. This, you cannot do with most if not all etch-a-sketch CAD programs.


Honestly, it really sounds like you've had a class that either did not explain the absolute basics, or was thought by a teacher who was way too explicit about architectural drawing. The methods are not that different but they do use different tools that are not common or obvious to a newcomer or to a person who wants mechanical drawings.
My advise is to get an old(er) copy of Inside AutoCAD book. To start, just skip most of the portion about setting up limits, paper space, model space or extents and just focus on how to draw "objects" and get an idea of the tools ACAD provides.
And as I've said before, look at the command line and experiment with the myriad of options it shows you there.

I just finished an AutoCad 2011 class at Purdue. It was all mechanical drawing. I used this book: AUTOCAD 2008 A PROBLEM-SOLVING APPROACH by Sham Tickoo. It was the same book the instructor taught from. So rather than purchasing the $130 dollar 2011 book I purchased the AUTOCAD 2008 book for about $9.38 delivered!
The AUTOCAD 2011 book had some minor errors as it turned out.
The book is pretty good. Stay with AutoCad and do a drawing every night if you can.
Fillets and chamfers are easy.
Regards,
John

If you need just 2d Solidworks has a FREE 2d cad system avialable for download.

+1 for Alibre

In 2004 my business needed to start having real engineering drawings to get parts made by venders. Solid Works looked good but priced out of my reach. Alibre stepped in and still to this day does everything we ever would have done w/ SW just does it for less. The direct support they have is real time and right into your desk top. Also look at the maintenance costs with other programs, vs. Alibre!

Mark

Thanks guys for all the helpful suggestions. I will play around with some of the free 2D programs, and see if I have an easier time with them, will also check out alibre.

I am looking for something to do simple 2D drawings, like the proverbial Etch-A-Sketch connected to my computer, haha. I'll leave the 3D modeling and fancy stuff to the pros.

tonystoolroom said:

Thanks guys for all the helpful suggestions. I will play around with some of the free 2D programs, and see if I have an easier time with them, will also check out alibre.

I am looking for something to do simple 2D drawings, like the proverbial Etch-A-Sketch connected to my computer, haha. I'll leave the 3D modeling and fancy stuff to the pros.

Click to expand...

I found 3D modeling much easier to learn that 2D. 3D is how our minds work. Drawing views updated automatically. I just ran a job for a company that was done in autocad, some views were updated with revisions some were not, very confusing.

Free CAD software * for your DWG files: DraftSight - Dassault Systèmes
for free 2D

Creo Elements/Direct Modeling Personal Edition 3.0 - PTC.com
for free 3D. If you are not needing to export models for cam systems this may work.

I have a license for Autocad 2010 Mechanical. The program looks cool but I am not finding it easy to create drawings. Its still way easier for me to draw on paper. So does anyone have suggestions for a reasonably priced CAD program that is actually easy to use, and so I can retire the dividers, pencils, and straightedges??

Click to expand...

Hy Tony, stay with Autocad and try to find a few tutorials on the internet/youtube. There is a shipload of this stuff out there. It´s just getting used to it, nothing more.
You´ll always be faster on paper with a first sketch but you´ll never be as fast as autocad when you have to simply modify a drawing for a part to generate another similar part. Other shops (e.g. the laser guys) like DXFs far more than fax papers,they can derive G code directly.

Step back and think what you want to do. Did you model all this stuff in the course in 3D and you´re still thinking in 2D? If yes, do you really need the 3D solids? If not, use Autocad like a 2D programm and redraw all the parts you have on paper.
This leaves you with a clean and easy to administer part database. When you´re done, you won´t be intimidated by Autocad anymore.
When you need the 3D option in the future, you´ll find it is easy to use your 2D shapes to generate your 3D models.

Do you have any friends or colleagues that do the same? If two people start with a new programm both will get stuck but nearly never in the same place. A friend that is into autocad, too is worth it´s weight in gold.
Another thing architects don´t care about: you can give your parts material properties in Autocad. This will generate weight, outline length, center of gravity, surface area, etc. Good for ordering raw material, doing a rough cost calculation for lasercutting or powder coating, etc.

Cheers,
Johann