Anyone have an opensource Mazak 500a-5x post for Mastercam?
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    Default Anyone have an opensource Mazak 500a-5x post for Mastercam?

    I've got a Mazak VCU-500a-5x, (5 axis with y aligned trunion tilt axis, and 500mm rotary) and a programmer offered me a deal to write a post in trade for gap health coverage when he took a higher paid job and resigned, but he's been busy for a while, I guess the new job is kind of a slave camp so his work hours are way up.

    I figure if I had a post that was close it might save him some time and get him close enough to finish it.

    If anyone has one they could send let me know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    I've got a Mazak VCU-500a-5x, (5 axis with y aligned trunion tilt axis, and 500mm rotary) and a programmer offered me a deal to write a post in trade for gap health coverage when he took a higher paid job and resigned, but he's been busy for a while, I guess the new job is kind of a slave camp so his work hours are way up.

    I figure if I had a post that was close it might save him some time and get him close enough to finish it.

    If anyone has one they could send let me know.
    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    I've got a Mazak VCU-500a-5x, (5 axis with y aligned trunion tilt axis, and 500mm rotary) and a programmer offered me a deal to write a post
    ^^^ I understand this bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    a programmer offered me a deal to write a post in trade for gap health coverage when he took a higher paid job and resigned, but he's been busy for a while, I guess the new job is kind of a slave camp so his work hours are way up.
    ^^^ Lost me there (I have no idea how that all fits together / works / means ).

    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    I figure if I had a post that was close it might save him some time and get him close enough to finish it.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________

    @Green0
    Sorry I don't have a Mastercam post for VCU-500a-5x

    You could try the WestCoast aerospace center for MAZAK (Los Angeles), they have exhibited the VC(U) -500a - 5x and I know they use MasterCam.

    Also Mastercam should have a post for that machine.

    -Did you try the Mastercam Forum already ?

    The layout of the machine is not so unusual so a more generic post shouldn't be super difficult to tweak. (different for the Mazak UK's NEW CV5-500 ) (entry level 5 axis machine with a layout like a top drawer Okuma or Makino ~ Y oriented trunnion that moves through the bridge).

    [The VCU-500a 5ax is basically a ram style with a Y oriented knuckle-trunnion, HAAS UMC 500 has the same layout and nearly the same size, same with 2nd gen DMG-Mori DMU 50 (Ramstyle with knuckle table universal) and others besides.].

    ____________________

    @Green0 what vintage of VCU-500a-5x do you have ? What year was the machine ? And did you buy it new or second hand and do you like it ? (assuming you have the SmoothX control on that one ? ).

    Ta.

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    That first part just means a programmer who was leaving us offered a trade for a post he hasn't yet delivered in 6 weeks. I gather its a time problem not an ethics issue so if I could get a post that he could do prove out and code comparison on, he could do in a few hours the work to cover his end of the trade he made.


    The mazak is a 2015, i got it low hours used. Im glad I did because it has limited head z motion, like it was designed for nearly flat to 30deg tilted work on one piece turbine fan assemblies.

    Tilt it 90, and it needs 7inch or 8 in tools to reach centerline because it runs out of z. I have a matrix 2 i believe, not the new smooth control. It moves quick and smooth, the spindle quality is pretty good, but the long tools limit the rigidity a bit.

    At one point we lost a machine zero because the batteries died. We wished mazak had put switches in to find home. The mazak control is not like a fanuc where we call fanuc and solve issues remotely. Mazak phone support doesn't know answers, so we basically have to call techs in on paid service calls for simple stuff that we should be able to resolve with phone support. The service guys usually say they are 2 weeks out so its stressful to be in those situations when the machine has work. Sometimes they come out early but you're level of stress is based on the quoted time.

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    The guy we bought the vcu from was selling the mazak to get a haas umc 750 5 axis. I was surprised about that at the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    The guy we bought the vcu from was selling the mazak to get a haas umc 750 5 axis. I was surprised about that at the time.
    I'm not sure if the floating leg problem of the VCU -400 5ax and 500 5ax had been resolved then, later on they made a much more substantial casting for the far end bearing of the trunnion.

    It's a Kentucky "Home grown" machine made from MAZAK parts.

    Some of the Mazak machines (as you know) normally have the trunnion go side to side and have a very deep and long Y axis travel so that 90 degree tilt works as one would like it.* Even the trunnions in the Y orientations (larger Variaxis) have long Y travels with the overhead (modified) gantry arrangement... BUT can have a short x-travel , so the part needs to be swung into the narrower machining volume/ work envelope.

    I saw VCU 500 5ax at the West Coast Mazak open house (couple of years ago) and as you indicate good job with large impellers.

    Sorry I'm originally from the UK so my geography gets a bit wonky from time to time so YES what you are saying for things substantially "East" of the Rocky Mountain Region. Western Region seems better but still similar kind of issues can happen.


    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

    *

    YouTube

    ^^^ Shows Mazak UK's CV5-500 … So that would get around a lot of the physical problems of the VCU 500 5ax, be more rigid and more accurate. (smaller footprint).

    Not sure if it's possible to import these without Kentucky or Japan fixing to break one's legs. + provide actual tech support for an "Entry" level machine with an entry level price. + close the gaps on CAD/CAM side / posts and other gaps that you are describing here @Green0.

    (There seems to be a hole or gap that someone could fill if they can do the leg work/initiative.).

    MAZAK UK and MAZAK Singapore make several machines that are not offered in the USA.


    I think the HAAS UMC 500 has thrown the Cat amongst the pigeons …
    in terms of price performance /$, and to grab that repeat business.

    SolidCam have a good relationship with MAZAK in Europe also. Much more plug and play and willing to close gaps more directly as an opportunity rather than going "Meh" / "Too bad" or "Yessss, but it's gonna cost you" .

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    My machine is pre- resolution to that engineering flaw of not being super rigid with regard to the forward mount of the trunion just being a leg hanging out in space. I think the limited Z travel is another engineering flaw. They used a high clearance spindle nose with the machine and that gives the machine the impression of the ability to push the spindle face past the edge of the table at 90 degrees, but the spindle can't travel there. It seems like maybe changing the head design, and increasing the vertical way length both by about 6", would just totally eliminate the engineering flaws in the machine in combination with the new casting design which is really something to make guys like me with the older model casting envious of.

    Granted it's still a Mazak, so with regard to metal it is mechanically overbuilt enough to be as rigid as a Hurco VM10U or maybe a little more rigid than that. By that I mean a lot less rigid than you would expect for the construction, on account of the leg of the trunion, and the 6-8" holders to get to work, but not so flexible as to be un-usable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    My machine is pre- resolution to that engineering flaw of not being super rigid with regard to the forward mount of the trunion just being a leg hanging out in space. I think the limited Z travel is another engineering flaw. They used a high clearance spindle nose with the machine and that gives the machine the impression of the ability to push the spindle face past the edge of the table at 90 degrees, but the spindle can't travel there. It seems like maybe changing the head design, and increasing the vertical way length both by about 6", would just totally eliminate the engineering flaws in the machine in combination with the new casting design which is really something to make guys like me with the older model casting envious of.

    Granted it's still a Mazak, so with regard to metal it is mechanically overbuilt enough to be as rigid as a Hurco VM10U or maybe a little more rigid than that. By that I mean a lot less rigid than you would expect for the construction, on account of the leg of the trunion, and the 6-8" holders to get to work, but not so flexible as to be un-usable.
    That seems like a very accurate appraisal you have set out there / here ^^^ [Kind of about putting the "Iron" in the right places .].

    It is a real problem to get to the center of the table on a lot "Universal" types and if the spindle is not really narrow then it's hard to get a shorter tool to the center of the table.

    So it does become a paradoxical situation as you have to fixture a smaller part on the center of the table really far off the table. So the combination of long tools massive fixtures on a not super rigid machine become a pain.

    That's interesting what you are saying about the different variants (of machines) in terms of travels and clearance of the spindle through a narrow slice of time. (and also not being able to reach certain parts of the table especially with the knuckle -trunnion tilted.).

    That would make getting the right post for your specific vintage of machine very difficult indeed I would have thought ?

    That's one of the nice things about machines that have a wide but narrow cradle for the trunnion (and not too big of a table) is that when the trunnion is tilted in combination with a skinny long reaching spindle / head you don't need these massive fixtures to get to the center of a part. Hermle do that really well but also seems the layout of the HAAS UMC 500 has a long cradle but proportionately smaller table (even if it's in a fixed Y orientation).

    @Green0 I believe there is a poster here (can't remember his handle) that had an early VCU -5ax (can't remember if it was 400 or 500) but he really resented (understandably) being used by MAZAK Kentucky as a Guinea pig , and if memory serves me right he did buy a HAAS UMC 750 just to get on with things with the least amount of hassle.

    ______________________________________


    So if I am understanding things correctly you bought a second hand machine (behind the 8 ball on the software side of things with your second hand dealer) and are having trouble getting MAZAK phone support (Kentucky or eastern / central regions) and you having to pay lots of $ for simple support that should be solvable over the phone + extended delays. + an off the shelf post for MasterCam that probably doesn't exist for you specific machine ?

    That's a bummer.

    If you don't mind me asking how have you been programming the VCU up to now ?

    ______________________________________


    I hear you about Fanuc (in terms of answers and standardization) and from time to time these days seems some nice -ish Makino Horizontals and verticals come onto the market but usually at the exact moment the spindle needs to be 100% replaced.

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    Sounds like you should have paid buddy more to stay.

    You won't find anything close that is not locked to a license. An old 5x Fanuc post might at least have the logic you need but none of the machine goodies. There's a reason why posts cost money, the talented people who make them need to get paid for their work too.

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    @Green0

    Stumbled across this...



    ^^^ To your eye does this look like the tool / tool length and layout has better reach to more of the table / part / work than the VCU 500 5ax (in more general terms ) ?.

    Ta.

    [There's some really interesting moves and approaches to fixturing a part that one would not immediately think of (necessarily).].

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    The guy we bought the vcu from was selling the mazak to get a haas umc 750 5 axis. I was surprised about that at the time.
    that does not suprise me. We have two Mazak VC500 5x machines and they have been pieces of junk. We have service calls every other week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ez_DuzIt123 View Post
    that does not suprise me. We have two Mazak VC500 5x machines and they have been pieces of junk. We have service calls every other week.
    The VC500 5x is newer / newest -ish and is problematic ? or VCU 500 or VC 500A 5x ?

    [our local sales "peeps" tried to always steer me towards Variaxis j or I 500. ].

    If you could point at one core issue that causes the vc500 5x machine to be a piece of junk what would that be ? (If you don't mind me asking ?).

    Design / Bad design ?

    Poor build ?

    Bad use of components ?

    Bad install ?

    Things not being tight like bearings etc. ?

    Other air or coolant problems ?

    Control issues ?

    Or just a piece of junk ?

    Sorry to ask... But would be very good to know.

    Ta/appreciate it.

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    5axis Mastercam posts are locked to you license and are not free, call your reseller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cameraman View Post
    The VC500 5x is newer / newest -ish and is problematic ? or VCU 500 or VC 500A 5x ?

    [our local sales "peeps" tried to always steer me towards Variaxis j or I 500. ].

    If you could point at one core issue that causes the vc500 5x machine to be a piece of junk what would that be ? (If you don't mind me asking ?).

    Design / Bad design ?

    Poor build ?

    Bad use of components ?

    Bad install ?

    Things not being tight like bearings etc. ?

    Other air or coolant problems ?

    Control issues ?

    Or just a piece of junk ?

    Sorry to ask... But would be very good to know.

    Ta/appreciate it.
    Both of ours are the newer VC500a models. The last one we got was a terrible install. Took four weeks to get going. There was so many issues trying to get the machine level, shimming the spindle, sheet metal was rubbing, ect. Spindle o ring failed two weeks into running the machine. NC Unit went bad a few months after that. It just seems like both machines we recently purchased were all built very poorly. I am not sure if it's a design flaw or if they were both put together by the same dumbass at the factory in Kentucky. Other parts of the design i do not like are the travel limits and the door. There is harldy any X axis travel when you are trying to machine a part at 90 degrees. The door sucks to try and clean because you can only clean as far as your arm can reach while closing the door. otherwise the glass is contained of reach when the door is fully opened. The viewing window is very small too. Only going to have one person peeping into the machine at a time.

    The part i do like is the control. The smooth control is very user friendly and the touch screen is surprisingly easier to work with than all our other traditional controls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    5axis Mastercam posts are locked to you license and are not free, call your reseller.
    Not to mention you would be pretty brave IMO to "just" get a 5ax post without some type of simulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ez_DuzIt123 View Post
    Both of ours are the newer VC500a models. The last one we got was a terrible install. Took four weeks to get going. There was so many issues trying to get the machine level, shimming the spindle, sheet metal was rubbing, ect. Spindle o ring failed two weeks into running the machine. NC Unit went bad a few months after that. It just seems like both machines we recently purchased were all built very poorly. I am not sure if it's a design flaw or if they were both put together by the same dumbass at the factory in Kentucky. Other parts of the design i do not like are the travel limits and the door. There is harldy any X axis travel when you are trying to machine a part at 90 degrees. The door sucks to try and clean because you can only clean as far as your arm can reach while closing the door. otherwise the glass is contained of reach when the door is fully opened. The viewing window is very small too. Only going to have one person peeping into the machine at a time.

    The part i do like is the control. The smooth control is very user friendly and the touch screen is surprisingly easier to work with than all our other traditional controls.
    @Ez-DuzIt123 Thanks so very much for making that crystal clear. (really appreciate that| Thumbs up big time.).

    Over the years there have been some real horror stories that have come out of "Kentucky" - human related "Can't get there from here " / kind of thing staggering indifference (that boggles the mind). It's just so random. Western region seems to fare somewhat better on Japanese built (different) machines.


    That really sucks sorry you are having to wade through all of that.

    Indeed that sucks with limited x travel + 90 degree tilted table.

    Really sucks with bad install and bad build in the first instance. + other failures that absolutely should not be.

    + weird ergonomic issues that have not been thought through or tested.

    Smooth X is nice (for sure).

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Sounds like you should have paid buddy more to stay.

    You won't find anything close that is not locked to a license. An old 5x Fanuc post might at least have the logic you need but none of the machine goodies. There's a reason why posts cost money, the talented people who make them need to get paid for their work too.
    He's worth good money, but for us, he was getting paid for a whole year, working half the year. At the new employer, he's working more hours every day, and working all year, so they are getting at least twice the work, for 10 or 15% more pay. They happen to be 15 minutes from his home in his state and we were not in his state.

    When a guy tells you something like that, "Hey I get 10% more working twice as much." I think, geez, that doesn't sound good. I'm not a career counselor. I think I said, "congratulations- that sounds like a good opportunity.", because I couldn't pay any more for half a working year.

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    So if I am understanding things correctly you bought a second hand machine (behind the 8 ball on the software side of things with your second hand dealer) and are having trouble getting MAZAK phone support (Kentucky or eastern / central regions) and you having to pay lots of $ for simple support that should be solvable over the phone + extended delays. + an off the shelf post for MasterCam that probably doesn't exist for you specific machine ?
    The mazak phone support is like asking my kid to talk to strangers on the phone. He's 5. It's not functional, but they pick up. In their defense, Mazak makes too many versions of machines for their people to really know the machines.

    When basic posts get edited by end users, they are open source so there probably is an open source post for this machine. I have one for a 4th axis Doosan I paid a guy to develop. I have one for a 4th Axis Mazak. I prefer open source. Then I don't have to be angry I can't get someone to edit the post. I know I have a post that specifically was only supported through consultants for pay, but that I can get serviced through any knowledgable post editor in the country. It's good to have an open post. It also doesn't add to your maintenance if you have one half assed machine of a type you just want to run for a while until you inevitably flip it again. The VCU500A-5X is kind of on the fence for that. It's not great enough to be something we're obviously going to keep long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    5axis Mastercam posts are locked to you license and are not free, call your reseller.
    The old employee had a dealer dongle for his work supporting a dealer for onsite training when he wasn't working for us (that other half of the year), and he made a deal with me to exchange his post work for health care, so I exchanged money with a Dealer dongle holder for a post. I realize how that isn't the same as paying a reseller for a post, but I didn't want to have to argue for an edit either so it had perceivable advantages. I had paid him before. He had worked for us to develop me a 4th axis Doosan post that we bought, and he did like 10 edits quick and that was a great post.

    I was hoping to see if anyone has a post developed off an open basic post to support a Mazak 5 axis with a Y aligned tilt axis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    The mazak phone support is like asking my kid to talk to strangers on the phone. He's 5. It's not functional, but they pick up. In their defense, Mazak makes too many versions of machines for their people to really know the machines.

    <snip for clarity>
    That's funny,

    And indeed the MAZAK techs / employees that (I've spoken to) East of our region do complain that they don't get enough time to specialize on a particular type or line of machines , that somehow they have to do them all and not spend that much time on each type and model/line of machine. [That makes no sense to me .].

    Not sure what the market is like for X-Mazak techs ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green0 View Post
    The old employee had a dealer dongle for his work supporting a dealer for onsite training when he wasn't working for us (that other half of the year), and he made a deal with me to exchange his post work for health care, so I exchanged money with a Dealer dongle holder for a post. I realize how that isn't the same as paying a reseller for a post, but I didn't want to have to argue for an edit either so it had perceivable advantages. I had paid him before. He had worked for us to develop me a 4th axis Doosan post that we bought, and he did like 10 edits quick and that was a great post.

    I was hoping to see if anyone has a post developed off an open basic post to support a Mazak 5 axis with a Y aligned tilt axis.
    ^^^ (Just to put things back on track (sorry for the detour , but thanks for the answers).


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