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Autodesk's version of the FeatureCAM end user license agreement

wheelieking71

Diamond
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Has anybody actually read it?
Has anybody with a perpetual license actually upgraded to FeatureCAM 2017-18?

My small mind interprets the end user license agreement to state that you basically forfeit your perpetual license.
And it gives autodicks the right to force you to send them back your install disk, and dongle.

To which I say: Fuck you right the fuck off Autodesk!!!!!!!!!!!!:angry:
 
No, but I do still have a seat of PowerInspect on perpetual/maintenance. I should probably go and read that shit, but I don't really need anything else to get pissed off about today.
 
Here, let me make it easy for you to find:

1.2 Upgrades and Previous Versions.

1.2.1 Effect of Upgrades. If Autodesk or a Reseller provides Licensee with an Upgrade to other Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee, the Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee and any other Autodesk Materials relating thereto will thereafter be deemed to be a “Previous Version.” Except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), the license grant and other rights with respect to any Previous Version will terminate one hundred twenty (120) days after Installation of the Upgrade. Within such one hundred twenty (120) day period, except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), (a) Licensee must cease all use of any Previous Version and Uninstall all copies of the Previous Version, and (b) upon expiration of such period, such Previous Version will no longer constitute Licensed Materials but rather will be deemed to be Excluded Materials and Licensee will no longer have a license for any such Previous Version. At Autodesk’s request, Licensee agrees to destroy or return to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired all copies of the Previous Version. Autodesk reserves the right to require Licensee to show satisfactory proof that all copies of any Previous Version have been Uninstalled and, if so requested by Autodesk, destroyed or returned to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired.

1.2.2 Exception for Relationship Program Licensees. The termination of rights as to Previous Versions described in Section 1.2.1 (Effect of Upgrades) may not apply to Licensee if and to the extent (a) Licensee participates in a Relationship Program and the Relationship Program Terms authorize Licensee to retain such Previous Versions or (b) otherwise authorized in writing by Autodesk.

1.7 Relationship Programs. Autodesk may offer to Licensee, and (if so) Licensee may participate in one (1) or more Relationship Programs applicable to the Licensed Materials licensed to Licensee under this Agreement (and such Relationship Programs may include rights in addition to or different from those set forth in this Agreement). Any Relationship Programs are subject to Autodesk’s terms therefor, which terms are set forth in the applicable Relationship Program Terms. Licensee agrees that if it requests, accepts, or makes use of any Relationship Program, Licensee will be bound by such terms, as they may be modified from time to time in accordance with the applicable Relationship Program Terms (and such terms, as so modified from time to time, are a part of and incorporated by reference into this Agreement), and Licensee agrees to comply with such terms. Licensee acknowledges that Autodesk may require a further acceptance of such terms as a condition to participation in a Relationship Program.


Section 1.7 looks to me to give Autodicks the right to make up the rules as they see fit.
I am still trying to find more info on "Relationship Programs".
 
It gets better:

9.13 Entire Agreement. This Agreement and any other terms referenced in this Agreement (such as the Relationship Program Terms and the Services Terms) constitute the entire agreement between the parties (and merge and supersede any prior or contemporaneous agreements, discussions, communications, agreements, representations, warranties, advertising or understandings) with respect to the subject matter hereof, except that particular Autodesk Materials may be subject to additional or different terms associated with such Autodesk Materials. The parties acknowledge that, in entering into this Agreement, they are not relying on any agreements, discussions, communications, agreements, representations, warranties, advertising or understandings other than as expressly set forth in this Agreement. Licensee acknowledges and agrees that Autodesk may add to or change the Relationship Program Terms and the Services Terms from time to time, provided that Autodesk will provide written notice of the additions or changes (and may allow Licensee not to renew, may permit Licensee to terminate, and may offer other options with respect to Relationship Programs or Services) before the additions or changes are effective as to Licensee. In the event of a conflict between this Agreement and any other terms of Autodesk (including, without limitation, the Relationship Program Terms, the Services Terms, or such additional or different terms), the other terms will apply. Terms stipulated by Licensee in any communication by Licensee which purport to vary this Agreement or such other terms will be void and of no effect unless agreed in a writing signed by an authorized representative of Autodesk. Any other modifications to this Agreement will also be invalid unless agreed to in a writing signed by an authorized representative of Autodesk.
 
No, but I do still have a seat of PowerInspect on perpetual/maintenance. I should probably go and read that shit, but I don't really need anything else to get pissed off about today.

I would immediately make sure the machine it is installed on does not have internet access. This is some shady shit going down.
I am getting ready to call a lawyer.
 
Wheelie

A quick scan of it suggests its an upgrade not a new licence, unless I scanned the wrong section.
If its an upgrade it replaces the previous arrangement hence the tactic of offering a cheap upgrade.

Im with you. I would be pretty p1ssed

Sent from my SM-T355Y using Tapatalk
 
While we no longer have to worry about that one, specific issue this writing has been on the wall for years now. In fact, even I wrote about this specifically, a few years ago now. ( the day of and following their purchase of Delcam )

Frankly, we have not bought or upgraded a single Delcam product since. And I don't see any reason to, moving forward. I have made the decision to stick with the few things we have at our disposal for the foreseeable future and until the landscape changes.

Speaking strictly personally, I believe that the current environment will continue for about another year or two. Then, we will see one or two novel/bold developments that will become fresh offerings. They will likely take a fair market share of people that have been looking to purchase but have been putting it off for lack of any choices that suit them presently. Too, ( and I said this back then ) I believe there will be a split off or mutiny of key individuals from the original core of Delcam people ( "the Boys in Birmingham" as I've always referred to them ) and they will start fresh with some new ideas, on their own.

I just don't see AD being able to keep their mitts off of FC and PM for too long. And part of the ingredients that made Delcam stuff SO good is that they approached things in ways completely differently than others did. They thought differently. ( especially PM ) I simply do not see that as continuing under AD.

I honestly hope that I am wrong. But so far, I have not been. From then, and up until now... :(:wrong:
 
I got so angry after reading 1.2.1 that I had to stop. I get a real bad feeling about this but I don't know contract law so maybe it's all no big deal...right.
 
Wheelie

A quick scan of it suggests its an upgrade not a new licence, unless I scanned the wrong section.
If its an upgrade it replaces the previous arrangement hence the tactic of offering a cheap upgrade.

Im with you. I would be pretty p1ssed

Sent from my SM-T355Y using Tapatalk

Exactly, it clearly states that 120 days after you "upgrade" you will have to forfeit your "previous version" (install disk and dongle).
It is right there in black & white. I am not super smart. But, I can read.

The caveat is this "relationship program", which they have hidden the details of in piles of other B.S.

I asked Maryann Beaver flat out: "what do I do with my dongle if I no longer need it after I install FeatureCAM 2018?"
Her reply: "You can keep it"
I do not believe that for a second. I see a registered letter in my future if I click "I accept".
 
I got so angry after reading 1.2.1 that I had to stop. I get a real bad feeling about this but I don't know contract law so maybe it's all no big deal...right.

Ohh, it is a huge deal. A $20k plus deal for me right now. And, the future of my business.

The subscription model is the single stupidest thing I have ever seen in my entire manufacturing career!
And, I have worked next to some dumb mother-effers. This easily takes the cake.
 
So you are expecting to pay for an upgrade and basically run 2 copies after that? Is that the gist of what you are saying you should be allowed to do and are upset that the license agreement says otherwise?
 
One more reason to never connect online to the software company, at least not with the computer your dongle is plugged into. I'd be a little nervous about doing a Go To Meeting for tech support with Mastercam, except that after dropping the maintenance that option has, for better or worse, been removed. If I need help I hire a freelancer to come here for the day. I keep up the maintenance for Solid Works, so they still have to help me with the 2014 version I have installed. But they're on thinner ice with me all the time. Tried to activate the "home use" installation the other day on a backup computer but was told that option had been discontinued. Now it would cost $6400 for a spare chair, plus $1400 a year for that. And, of course, if you let it lapse you have to either make up all the missed years or buy it all over again. You can still transfer an activation in case of a crash, which is all I would need—but I wouldn't be surprised to see them refuse to do that at some future time when I need it. Tough luck, kid, buy a new seat. They obviously wish they had never offered perpetual licenses in the first place.

I often wonder if the reason they prevent backward compatibility of file formats is that they are afraid of the expiration of their original patents and potential guerrilla marketing of, say, generic Solid Works 2001. Or is code covered by copyright rather than patent?

Anyway, I am in total solidarity with the OP. Software companies are the scum of industry, on a par with the payday loan people.
 
So you are expecting to pay for an upgrade and basically run 2 copies after that? Is that the gist of what you are saying you should be allowed to do and are upset that the license agreement says otherwise?

Previously it was recommended practice to do a standalone installation rather than an upgrade installation in case of bugs. Of course that meant that if it didn't use a dongle you had an outdated but still functional copy of the program available. It seems they don't want you to have any recourse that doesn't involve paying them what is basically rent. As a business owner and entrepreneur I just don't see that as advantageous. You better believe that if you have to download your shit from their cloud every day and a Stuxnet comes along, they're not going to compensate you for loss of use (actually, it's be more like Loss of Consortium since they're fucking you).
 
With the amount of hours you guys waste on bitching about autodesk and their subs you could have created new CAM software and sold it as a stand alone product. :D
 
So you are expecting to pay for an upgrade and basically run 2 copies after that? Is that the gist of what you are saying you should be allowed to do and are upset that the license agreement says otherwise?

Do your research as to what is actually happening here before piping up.
Autodesk has made it no secret that they want nothing more than all perpetual licenses abolished. Did you read what I copy/pasted? What Autodesk is telling me says one thing. What the end user license agreement says is a totally different thing. What do you think will hold water in court? An email? Or an electronically signed contract? What I want is for my $20k software to continue working, exactly as I was promised it would when I purchased it 4 years ago. With the same maintenance costs I signed up for. That, is no longer available to me! Autodicks have basically redefined perpetual as very temporary, and expensive. And, they have it structured so that they have your business by the balls after you click "I accept".
 
So you are expecting to pay for an upgrade and basically run 2 copies after that? Is that the gist of what you are saying you should be allowed to do and are upset that the license agreement says otherwise?



Well, I can partially see your point there because there is nothing stopping you to have one standalone computer loaded with the old version using a dongle as the licensing agent,
all the while you can have a second machine, on which the fully legal current version resides which is licensed through the web.

Now, a few caveats:
ADSK-s prior licensing agreement allowed a valid license holder to:
a: Have the current version, and up-to three prior releases installed on the same computer
b: In addition to the primary license, you were allowed to have a "home" seat activated under the same license.

Also.
Up-to the acquisition of Delcam, FC was either licensed through a hardware dongle, OR a license server.
So, for those who had a dongle based version, it was in fact their De-Facto license. Period, The End.
Now that ADSK switched FC to a web based licensing method, current and future versions no longer care about, nor can possibly check for a valid dongle.

So, as a result with the current licensing agreement, ADSK is:
a: Revoking your previous right to install, run, use, have-at-hand etc. any versions that are not current.
b: They are attempting to confiscate all otherwise "your" property by demanding the return or destruction of a dongle.
( dongle being a piece of hardware, and as previously stated, license )

Tell me how is this different than say going to lease a new Ford truck, pay the lease price as asked, and then be forced to return or run off the cliff the one you have within 90 days?


As a secondary caveat.
If you choose to be on maintenance for the purposes of having the latest, most complete, up-to-date version of the software to have at your disposal at all times, it means
that you need or want those features offered, AND that you also plan to support further developments.
In the process, you also accept the fact that none of your older versions be able to read, use, access or modify the data created by the upgraded, current versions.
Which means - that for all intents and purposes - having an older version side-by-side the current one is useless for anything other than finding out what they've
fucked up in the upgraded "new and improved" version, OR ( as it's often the case with ADSK ) what piece of software you no longer have access, or the right to use.



version
 
Thanks Seymour! That is the exact reality! And, it is complete bullshit.
That end user license agreement strips you of all your previous rights (that you paid dearly for! ALREADY!).
And gives Autodicks the right to do whatever they want. I don't even need a lawyer to see that.
And, I am sure after I have a lawyer read it, it will be even worse!

You forgot to mention however that, because the new FeatureCAM is web based, they also will have full control over your intellectual property.
(that I am sure will definitely not be backwards compatible like you mentioned)

My Dongle will never again be exposed to the internet! I can assure everybody of that!

If I ever find myself in need of more functionality than I already have, I will be looking for a different product that has absolutely NOTHING! to do with Autodicks.
 
A lot of damn good reasons to go with Mastercam.

Yep! For all the bitching about Mastercam, I have X9 with no maintenance, BUT I will always and forever have X9 unless I choose to upgrade. Yes, it would be super expensive to upgrade since you have to pay the back maintenance fees, but if I never upgrade, it is paid for and I (company) OWN the software and hasp key.

edit; I also have X8 installed "just in case" I can't do something in X9 the way I want... Mastercam has no say so in me having an older version since it is not a sub service.
 








 
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