Which CAD/CAM software for the beginner?

I didn't want to hijack the student edition thread, so I started a new one.

Background: I was an auto-body mechanic for 15 years, and quit six years ago to run my food business full-time. My wife took over the food business about three months ago, so I am starting a new career. I have been building things forever, and always admired machinists, so.......

I am taking my first machinist class at the local college. The pace is pretty slow though. I'm also re-learning my algebra, geometry and trig. In addition to that, I'm taking an online CNC programming course.

I have some free time in between that stuff and the "family" thing for another course, and I was considering learning CAD/CAM software on my own. I already have some product ideas, but I'm not sure about the path I might be taking in the field if I end up working for someone else.

Is there a CAD/CAM software that has a very STRONG tutorial element or "ease of learning"? Or, should I be focusing on another skill/software?

Thanks very much.

Roy

What does the community college offer in their CAD lab?

There is no such thing as a "beginner" CAD system. Human beings have the remarkable ability to adapt to their environment. CAD systems are just a tool of the trade, and circumstance dictates which tool is learned, and what level of proficiency in gained. Some people learn on AutoCAD, and some people learn on Unigraphics.

Pick what's relevant. CAD/CAM is nothing more than a set of concepts. All programs do the same thing with varying degrees of capability. Learn the "basics" of any CAD system, and you'll just have to learn the names of the functions in the next program that you use. And if you end up in a better CAD system, you can pick up those "advanced" concepts at that time.

Here's a post I wrote a while ago to a similar inquiry-

These days a good machinist needs to know his way around both manual and CNC machines and needs to understand the design flow of CAD/CAM. If you are not working with CNC machines yet you can still learn a lot about them from your PC.

To get an idea how a CNC machine tool controller works, download Mach3 from www.machsupport.com .
It will run on your machine as though its really controlling a machine, allowing you to run, write and play with G code. The concept of using it is similar to commercial machine tool controllers.

To get a feeling for the CAD/CAM side of CNC, download and go through the tutorials for demo versions of the following programs:

CAD:
Alibre from www.alibre.com
Rhino from www.rhino3d.com

CAM:
VisualMill from www.mecsoft.com
SheetCAM from www.sheetcam.com

You'll be able the run the G code you create with the programs above on Mach3.

Good luck-

Paul T.

Well there was a couple run-around replies

Solidworks...because it's powerful modeler, more intuitive than the "big guys" (i.e. Unigraphics/ProE), it's cost is affordable (and I know that's a relative term), and more and more companies are using Solidworks (especially small businesses).

Start with a good CAD foundation (parametric modelers). CAM isn't entirely necessary to know, especially since you're just begining...your CAD education should be first and foremost in importance. If you don't have any machines to program, then you don't need CAM.

College courses available:

COMPUTER-AIDED DRAFTING AND DESIGN

CADD 101 – 3 Credits
Introduction to CADD

Introduces basic two-dimensional drafting principles, practices utilizing Computer-Aided Drafting/Design (CADD) techniques, and covers CADD software structure and features. Discusses creation of CADD drawings using standard techniques and uses AutoCAD© software.


CADD 102 – 3 Credits
Intermediate AutoCAD©

Includes advanced editing techniques, manipulations of dimensioning variables, creating template drawings, and drawing strategies. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 101 or permission of program coordinator


CADD 103 – 3 Credits
CAD Engineering Drawing

Teaches vocabulary, construction techniques, standards, conventions, and visualization techniques to create and read engineering drawings with computer-aided design (CAD) software. Includes technical sketching and interpreting various types of engineering drawing. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 101 or permission of program coordinator


CADD 106 – 1 Credit
Self-Paced Computer Aided Design

Emphasizes the generic use of the microcomputer as a CAD tool. Introduces students to the user interface and basic commands of the system. 3 laboratory hours per week


CADD 111 – 3 Credits
Computer-Aided Design Applications

Exposes students to applications in CAD and provides opportunities to broaden knowledge of graphics manipulation to create fully developed 3-D designs and output using MicroStation software in a variety of design disciplines. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 101 or permission of program coordinator.


CADD 121 – 3 Credits
Customizing AutoCAD©

Emphasizes custom designing software for individual user needs and applications; includes file management functions, ascribing and editing of blocks, writing macros, editing on-screen menus, customizing user menus, and writing script files. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 101 or permission of program coordinator


CADD 131 – 3 Credits
PC CAD Management

Provides the basic skills necessary to manage a PC CAD-based operation emphasizing assembly of components for a PC system, including hardware and software configurations and organizing and maintaining the CAD filing system. Provides overview of various types of PC operating systems. 3 lecture hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 101 or permission of program coordinator


CADD 141 – 3 Credits
AutoCAD© 3D

Studies three-dimensional (3D) CAD techniques and applications with emphasis on increasing productivity in the creation and editing of 3D models using AutoCAD© software. Includes wireframe modeling, surfacing, shading, 3D primitives of solids, plotting 3D models, generating solids, and AutoLISP routines that aid in 3D construction. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 101 or permission of program coordinator


CADD 151 – 3 Credits
Technical Animation

Introduces computer graphics to produce maximum impact animated presentations for business, engineering, scientific, architectural, educational, training, or sales purposes. Includes modeling, 3D editing, animating, rendering, texture mapping, cameras, and lighting. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week


CADD 152 – 3 Credits
Intermediate Rendering and Technical Animation

Teaches the production of engineering and architectural renderings and animated presentations for business, educational, and sales purposes. Includes creating the illusion of detail; animating and rendering AutoCAD© files; scanning images; using clip models, bitmaps, and animations; applying sound to animations; and transferring animations to VHS tape. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 151


CADD 154/GEOG 154 – 3 Credits
GIS Applications

Surveys the Geographical Information Systems (GIS) discipline. Applications of GIS in the fields of marketing, environmental management, and governmental planning will be studied; laboratory component introduces procedures to capture, analyze, and display spatially linked data. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week


CADD 181-184 – (1-4 Credits)
Cooperative Education

Provides opportunity for application of measurable learning objectives and evaluation of paid practical field experience; provides credit on the basis of total hours worked and the attainment of objectives. 1-4 credits: 0-4 lecture hours and 0-40 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite (if any) will be determined for each course


CADD 191-194 – (1-6 Credits)
Special Topics in Computer-Aided Design

Provides opportunity to explore subjects outside the traditional areas of Computer-Aided Design; includes topics of importance to individuals in the Computer-Aided Design field that are not addressed in other CAD courses. Students should consult with an advisor or program coordinator to determine transferability and/or applicability to curriculum requirements. Information is available through the School of Applied and Information Technology office and Counseling Center. 1-6 credits; 0-6 lecture hours and 0-12 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite (if any) will be determined for each course


CADD 201 – 3 Credits
Computer-Aided Design Specialization

Increases knowledge and facility using MicroStation© software to reinforce the concepts of reference files, cells, and level symbology. Explores customizing techniques used to increase productivity and the software’s modeling and rendering tools. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 111. Offered spring semester only


CADD 202 – 3 Credits
Introduction to Architectural

Computer-Aided Design/Drafting

Introduces production of 2D architectural drawings on a CAD system. Includes basic CAD terminology, concepts, and system principles and examines storage, retrieval, data extraction, and plotting procedures. Architectural Desktop© is used in this course. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisites: CADD 101 (conc.) and CONT 101 (conc.)


CADD 226 – 3 Credits
Architectural Computer-Aided Design Applications

Continues topics studied in CADD 202 and extends to three-dimensional design studies and preparation of presentation drawings. Discusses creation of new designs by modeling existing database drawings and “part-libraries” using the same software package used in CADD 202. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisite: CADD 202 or equivalent experience. Offered fall semester only


CADD 231 – 3 Credits
AutoLISP©

Introduces a programming language used to develop advanced drawing and customizing techniques designed to increase productivity in AutoCAD©. Discusses basic principles of AutoLISP© programming. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisites: CADD 101 and CADD 121. Offered fall semester only.


CADD 241 – 3 Credits
CAD Engineering Drawing II

Explores advanced vocabulary, construction techniques, standards, conventions and visualization techniques needed to create and read engineering drawings. Includes theories of various types of pictorial, auxiliary, and developmental drawings. 2 lecture hours and 3 laboratory hours per week.

Prerequisites: CADD 101 and CADD 103


CADD 242 – 3 Credits
Solid Modeling

Focuses on the nature of solid modeling as contrasted with traditional two-dimensional techniques emphasizing mechanical applications. Includes development and editing of solid entities, importing and exporting models, and use of solid models in manufacturing situations.

Prerequisite: Current experience with two-dimensional CAD software, CADD 141, or permission of program coordinator


CADD 243 – 3 Credits
Intermediate Solid Modeling

Continues practices and techniques developed in CADD 242, Solid Modeling. Covers advanced modeling techniques, parametric dimensioning, complex geometry ,and assemblies.

Prerequisite: CADD 242 or permission of program coordinator

Are you going into business for yourself? If you are, then you will be purchasing with your own money right.

But if you're not. And you plan on finding a job to apply your new knowledge. You might want to go out and find what employers around your area are using.

small shops usually have gibbs, mastercam. BIG companies have unigraphics, catia. Real small shops have the less expensive like onecnc, visualmill...

I would say it depends on a lot of variables. Budget and application being the most important.

Roy,

Their course offerings seem on par with what my college offered about 10 years ago for CAD. That's not a putdown, but it seems to be a curriculum geared more towards architectural, and not towards mechanical drafting. Plus, AutoDesk must give them a good deal on software.

I come from a 3D AutoCAD background, and it's safe to say it's a waste of time for 3D mechanical work. But, there's no hurt in getting some basic education in 2D CAD drafting and getting familiarized with a CAD system of any sort. But I wouldn't spend more than 1 or 2 classes in it.

Like Izzoe said...it's all depending on what you're looking to pursue.

Well there was a couple run-around replies

Click to expand...

Right. Just before you gave the SolidWorks sales pitch, and he posted the course curricula, which reveals what, as the obvious answer? You guessed it, AutoCAD.

Like I said, go with what your college offers. You will get FULL support in the practice lab, with little or no cost to yourself.

I'll most likely be working for myself. I'm already window-shopping equipment. It will again, most likely, automotive related. I love my cars.

So, yes, I'll be buying this type of software at some point.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Roy

Failsafe,

That wasn't a sales pitch...it's just smart advice. If it's not Solidworks he goes with, then he should pick Pro/E (and more technical colleges with Mechanical degrees are offer one or the other).

If you have to pay for courses, then I'd say take a course or two with what your college offers...then spend the ~$1500 to get direct training from whatever software product you end up going with.

There's not much point in my book in doing advance courses with AutoLISP or having the professor make you hand-draw 3D projections...it would be money wiser spent just to dive into the platform you're going to use.

I use Solid Edge for automotive products, works very well for us, I learned it on my own, SE now has very nice and complete tutorials built in. SE is a head to head competitor to Solid Works, SW has a much larger installed base and more 3rd party software, I think SE is a better product and definitely has a better drafting module. Alibre is reported to be a nice alternative. You'll eventually want solid modeling of some sort, so you may as well head in that direction from the start.

Solid Edge now has a downloadable FREE 2D drafting module you might find educational to play with - http://www.theleadingedgenews.com/default.htm#productSupport


Autocad is the 600 lb gorilla in CAD, seems like everyone uses or used it, also seems like everyone wants something better. Most current CAD systems can read and write Autocad DXF and/or DWG drawing files so you can interchange 2D drawings.


Training definitely helps speed up your learning curve, my preference is to plunge in and play with the program for a while until I know my way around them go to an advanced course so I'm not spending classroom time on the basics.

There's not much point in my book in doing advance courses with AutoLISP or having the professor make you hand-draw 3D projections...it would be money wiser spent just to dive into the platform you're going to use.

Click to expand...

For the guy who has never used CAD, you are talking a distant world. SolidWorks is not necessarily (or not) the absolute answer. I'm just saying that you made it sound an awful lot like that was what you were inferring.

The basics of CAD are found in WIREFRAME - NOT solid modelling. Learning how to throw down points, lines, planes, etc, are the basis, just as you don't jump into trigonometry without some geometry. From there, you learn to EXTRUDE, REVOLVE, etc.

These are the same principles you find in ANY CAD system, from the lowest to the highest order. And, logically, you always begin learning with the most basic concepts first. Couple that with the fact that AutoCAD is a staple in community colleges, and you have a natural choice.

I went from AutoCAD directly to Catia. There were new concepts introduced, to be sure - but like I keep saying, basics is basics - one thing at a time.

Rather Diesel - there is no reason in the world that you shouldn't start with AutoCAD. From what it sounds like, you have no guarantee of going on to use CAD full time, so any other software is a pretty substantial risk.

One more point - AutoCAD DOES do 3D design. It is limited on functionality, and there are no real export options. But make no mistake - you can design in 3D with AutoCAD.

Failsafe,

For 3D work, I went from a AutoCAD to SW and there's a world of difference in design and assemblies from a Boolean Modeler (AutoCAD) to a parametric modeler (SW, etc.). You're right that there's similar functionalities (extrude, revolve, polylines etc.)...but the similarities end there.

The fact that once you make a part there's no modifications to features that can be done, renders AutoCAD I'd say 5X slower than a parametric modeler (and with only 1/10 it's capability). Because you have to get it right the first time drawn, otherwise you have to start over. It's a slow process that can very much limit you're willingness to change design paths. And lets not talk about assemblies...

There's not a week that doesn't go by that I don't use AutoCAD. AutoCAD is vastly superior at 2D work, and very easy to use. But I'd recommend staying away from it if this is his initial dive into solid-model mechanical drafting. Find a school locally that offers different CAD packages.

And my rationale behind either learning SW or Pro/E is because they are now becoming standardized platforms. That doesn't mean they are the best, but that's what will make you marketable if you're applying for a job or running a shop...and what his potential customers will most likely be using.

appliedproto:

I thought this topic was about learning. You said yourself you jumped from AutoCAD to SW. Most all of us get our start in AutoCAD.

The amount of support for a college with AutoDesk staff on-site is more than sufficient. Once the software is learned, business needs take over...

but I'm not sure about the path I might be taking in the field if I end up working for someone else.

Click to expand...

Doesn't that pretty much say it all?

Get Alibre for a free parametric modeller, if you think that's an all important thing, so early in the path to enlightenment.

I recommend SolidWorks too. It's easy to learn.

Don't "waste" your time learning AutoCAD. Start straight with SolidWorks (or other 3D modeler).

Well, that's the first time I've heard that 2D drafting, Autocad or else, is a waste of time.
Considering that all 3D models are based on 2D geometry drawn on 2D planes extracted from the 3D realm, I'd say a good knowledge of 2D drafting is essential. And since SW was mentioned talk to anyone, and they'll all tell you that a properly laid out 2D sketch is in fact essential to efficient 3D modeling.
Not to even mention that no 3D blueprint exist or accepted for manufacturing purposes.

Thank you, Seymour.

Everyone keeps missing the point that cutting one's teeth on AutoCAD means (most likely) free use of the lab an the training materials - whereas all other given recommnedations probably mean purchasing something.

Free, or expensive? hmm....

Anyone can get free 2D CAD on the internet legally. Look at www.progecad.com for example. That is just one example of an AutoCad clone that can introduce you to the CAD world without spending anything.

And as already mentioned, Alibre has an Xpress product that will introduce you to parametric solid modelling for free.

Dan

Not to even mention that no 3D blueprint exist or accepted for manufacturing purposes.

Click to expand...

I think those of us here that are machinists realize that even the most educated CAD draftsman can't dimension worth a sh*t. It's not easy creating crystal clear prints, that comes with experience.

I wasn't against someone getting some 2D background, but wireframe and wireframe editing you can get down pat within hours if you get some good training.

One semester course in Beginner AutoCAD would suite Roy fine. But anything more than that I think wouldn't be beneficial...that's my opinion.