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CAM for Live Tool / Y-axis Lathe and 5-axis Milling

Rick Finsta

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Joined
Sep 27, 2017
I am shopping for an integrated CAD/CAM package for the shop I'm running now. Just want to make sure I don't miss anything looking over proposals from a few different companies. We have a new live tooling, y-axis, subspindle lathe coming in the next few weeks and we want to alleviate some pressure off our aging Mazak SQT-18MYS. The parts have always been programmed conversationally on that but we're moving to a more modern CAD/CAM workflow with the turning and milling work. Otherwise most of our VMC work is 2.5/3 axis, with some parts I will be moving to 4th axis indexing for fixtures. We are adding full 5-axis later this year for a specific 3+2 part, but we will also be trying to bring in some full 5-axis work (and will also eventually be doing some mold cavity work once a non-compete runs out).

I come from Fusion 360 (and will still use that for my small home business) but it appears the shop is going to standardize on Solidworks for CAD. It looks like HSMworks, FeatureCAM, and Powermill will integrate, and I've also looked into Hypermill options. Esprit and NX have been mentioned but I have no frame of reference for them.

We're realistically going to have two people (including me) doing CAD/CAM work as well as a shop computer, so three seats until we expand. I'm supportive of the cloud-based subscription model, and understand the potential pitfalls of that. Since we're going to be an educational shop in the long-term, I'd love something that has a good training infrastructure. We have a local Autodesk reseller (three miles away) that does a lot of training.

Is there one solution for this turning and milling work, that will integrate with Solidworks? If nothing else I know the Matsuura 5-axis that has my attention comes with a seat of CAMplete so perhaps I really need to just find something that will handle the multi-axis lathe and simple milling with indexing?

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the questions I need to be asking.
 
I am shopping for an integrated CAD/CAM package for the shop I'm running now. Just want to make sure I don't miss anything looking over proposals from a few different companies. We have a new live tooling, y-axis, subspindle lathe coming in the next few weeks and we want to alleviate some pressure off our aging Mazak SQT-18MYS. The parts have always been programmed conversationally on that but we're moving to a more modern CAD/CAM workflow with the turning and milling work. Otherwise most of our VMC work is 2.5/3 axis, with some parts I will be moving to 4th axis indexing for fixtures. We are adding full 5-axis later this year for a specific 3+2 part, but we will also be trying to bring in some full 5-axis work (and will also eventually be doing some mold cavity work once a non-compete runs out).

I come from Fusion 360 (and will still use that for my small home business) but it appears the shop is going to standardize on Solidworks for CAD. It looks like HSMworks, FeatureCAM, and Powermill will integrate, and I've also looked into Hypermill options. Esprit and NX have been mentioned but I have no frame of reference for them.

We're realistically going to have two people (including me) doing CAD/CAM work as well as a shop computer, so three seats until we expand. I'm supportive of the cloud-based subscription model, and understand the potential pitfalls of that. Since we're going to be an educational shop in the long-term, I'd love something that has a good training infrastructure. We have a local Autodesk reseller (three miles away) that does a lot of training.

Is there one solution for this turning and milling work, that will integrate with Solidworks? If nothing else I know the Matsuura 5-axis that has my attention comes with a seat of CAMplete so perhaps I really need to just find something that will handle the multi-axis lathe and simple milling with indexing?

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the questions I need to be asking.

I'm an Autodesk guy. So Fusion 360 and InventorHSM is what I like to use and both have an educational infrastructure. You can have the three paid seats and you can have educational seats which are free for 3 years. I'm sure there are others like Solid works which have mentioned but as I've said, I'm an Autodesk guy. Lol


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I am shopping for an integrated CAD/CAM package for the shop I'm running now. Just want to make sure I don't miss anything looking over proposals from a few different companies. We have a new live tooling, y-axis, subspindle lathe coming in the next few weeks and we want to alleviate some pressure off our aging Mazak SQT-18MYS. The parts have always been programmed conversationally on that but we're moving to a more modern CAD/CAM workflow with the turning and milling work. Otherwise most of our VMC work is 2.5/3 axis, with some parts I will be moving to 4th axis indexing for fixtures. We are adding full 5-axis later this year for a specific 3+2 part, but we will also be trying to bring in some full 5-axis work (and will also eventually be doing some mold cavity work once a non-compete runs out).

I come from Fusion 360 (and will still use that for my small home business) but it appears the shop is going to standardize on Solidworks for CAD. It looks like HSMworks, FeatureCAM, and Powermill will integrate, and I've also looked into Hypermill options. Esprit and NX have been mentioned but I have no frame of reference for them.

We're realistically going to have two people (including me) doing CAD/CAM work as well as a shop computer, so three seats until we expand. I'm supportive of the cloud-based subscription model, and understand the potential pitfalls of that. Since we're going to be an educational shop in the long-term, I'd love something that has a good training infrastructure. We have a local Autodesk reseller (three miles away) that does a lot of training.

Is there one solution for this turning and milling work, that will integrate with Solidworks? If nothing else I know the Matsuura 5-axis that has my attention comes with a seat of CAMplete so perhaps I really need to just find something that will handle the multi-axis lathe and simple milling with indexing?

I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the questions I need to be asking.


Why look for separate software? If you can find a single, truly integrated software solution that fits your needs, I strongly recommend going that route. If you do indeed want integrated then I recommend to drop looking at separate software immediately.

NX11
NX12
NX EAP and BETA
 
Mastercam works well for those applications. I'm using it for 3+2 machining of orthopedic plates and surgical implements, and have found it to work well for Y-axis live-tooling lathe in the past. I also know many who are doing great full-5 with it. If you ever need to hire a programmer, a Mastercam programmer is probably the easiest to find qualified and experienced. It also plays well with Solidworks, and can even be run within it.
 
One thing many overlook when shopping integrated cam is that when you are cam programming you are using up a cad seat. You still have to pay the same price for integrated vs standalone but when using the integrated that seat of cad can no longer be used by someone else. Also, pretty much every single major cam software can flawlessly handle any cad data. There is no real reason to shop only integrated.
Esprit is amazing software, you should look at it. Like mentioned previous, finding Mastercam programmers should be easy but if a programmer is worth his salt in Mastercam they can switch to anything else with little issue.
 
Thanks for the input, guys.

I sat down with a local Autodesk and other software reseller and it looks like we are going to do this (unless something changes my mind when I talk to NX or Esprit):

Autodesk Product Design and Manufacturing Collection for integrated CAD/CAM which will also integrate with existing Solidworks seat that we own. We'll do this for every normal user - only two of us at first but that will expand. This gets us Inventor and HSM Works, in addition to Fusion and a few other goodies (like FEA).

Then we'll get a single seat of the FeatureCAM/PartMaker bundle. This is going to be HUGE for all the legacy parts we need to get into the system. We'll probably be subcontracting the CAD work and then this will seriously streamline our few thousand part numbers going onto the machines. The demo I got on this today was pretty amazing. It isn't going to be foolproof, but it'll sure beat templates since the software learns your preferences over time.

Apprentices and other folks that are learning will get Fusion 360 licenses (the reseller thinks Autodesk may actually be alright with educational licenses for part of this process so we're not buying seats for guys that don't make the cut). This will also aid in collaboration on projects, I think.

Fusion 360 will get guys into the basics of parametric design and thinking about CAM. Then the real work will be done in Inventor/HSM and FeatureCAM/PartMaker for the Mill/Turn and 5-Axis stuff. We may keep Solidworks around just because it is so ubiquitous and I'm sure there are some issues moving parts and assemblies from one software to another that I don't even know about yet.

The other huge benefit is having the guys that are helping us with training and things like machine models and post processors being three miles away, and right next door to my favorite pub.
 
Talking to the NX folks now and reached out to MasterCAM as well. The local school uses Solidworks and MasterCAM so that would integrate nicely with our teaching program. We'll have to see what kind of flexibility they will offer us on the educational license stuff...
 
Glad you're taking your time to shop around.

Y-axis lathe CAM is no joke. The fanciest CAM package will be useless to you if the supplier can't provide a working postprocessor for your specific machine from day one. Do not buy into the "we can make one for you" promise. I've seen these things drag on for months.

Good luck.
 
Yeah the local guys specialize in modeling and post processors, and we're guaranteed a working post for the lathe and any 2/3D mills up to three total with the software purchase, and then it is $2k each to develop a post for any other mill/turn or 5 axis stuff. That seemed quite reasonable to me?

Luckily the Brothers are pretty ubiquitous and I don't think a FANUC 0i-TF post for the Tsugami will be difficult for them, though that machine modeling is super important to me for collision detection offline.
 
Wow, not expecting this. Mastercam reseller gave me a "pass" on the project. Looks like Autodesk wins. Not sure if I'll commit to a three year lease setup or just stick with an annual subscription. I'm looking forward to having the (extremely) local support, though.
 
Autodesk and great support in the same sentence...lol thats funny.


edit...I guess technically you didn't say great and it wasn't all in the same sentence but you get the point
As much as you should shit test what they tell you about posts, you should do the same for tech support
 
Whatever software you choose can I suggest that you look closely at the rendering of the verification of the toolpath, the quality of the rendering whilst playing the toolpath verification. Can you spin the model on the screen whilst the toolpath is being played back in simulation? What is the "spun" section like? Very important for turn milling.
Does the software support user defined tooling?
How much do they charge for machine tool configurations of your machine tools?
How easy is it to add new machine tool configurations into your library?
I would suggest you have a demo on all your shortlist software using the same standard parts Y axis turning and 5 axis milling and see for yourself. Get them to add a machine configuration whilst you are getting the demo.
Me I swear by SprutCam
 
Autodesk and great support in the same sentence...lol thats funny.

edit...I guess technically you didn't say great and it wasn't all in the same sentence but you get the point
As much as you should shit test what they tell you about posts, you should do the same for tech support

It's funny, though. The latest Fusion 360 update broke something weird - the tool library wouldn't work if you had a document open with a slash "/" in the name. The forums had it licked in hours. I understand that a lot of folks have the attitude that open source or crowd sourced stuff is "using the customer as a beta tester" but I run products that were developed this way in other areas that are industry-leading simply because of that. No one can afford to hire 100k development and support staff to run their software on thousands of operating systems and in thousands of environments posting to thousands of machines. But a crowd source model works great for it.

It also isn't for everybody and I may end up figuring out the hard way that it certainly isn't for a production environment like the one I'm jumping into, with thousands of legacy part numbers and a lot of new development on the horizon using complex techniques that I have yet to learn.

Here's a question, though. Why is it that I had no idea Mastercam was still around until the tech school instructor mentioned them? Not coming from this industry I figured they died off or hadn't kept up and that's why no one was talking about them on the forums or Youtube. To me, that's is an indication that they have not engaged their users to a degree that they are out their singing the software's praises. I don't get that about Autodesk stuff, or NX, or Esprit, or...

This is going to be a hard decision made on a very tight timeline, but I'm not one to fear making mistakes. Rest assured when learning occurs I'll be back with an AAR.
 
I think it is a real bad idea to choose an Autodesk CAM product to use with Solidworks. You are expecting two mortal enemies to play well together. Crazy! All you need to do is to look around this site to see how this has gone for many of the guys who have gotten forced into this because Autodesk as bought the CAM they were using. If you want to use CAM with Solidworks you should look at one of the Solidworks partners.
 
Curiosity - Are you dealing with Programming Plus? And, what Turning Center with Y and Sub did you get? I ask because we are right now dealing with four MTBs, engineering, pricing, & evaluating a turn key. So your experiences might be of interest/value. As for CAM, since you are already in AD products, you should definitely look into PowerMill. My bias for it is well documented within this and other forums.
 
I think it is a real bad idea to choose an Autodesk CAM product to use with Solidworks. You are expecting two mortal enemies to play well together. Crazy! All you need to do is to look around this site to see how this has gone for many of the guys who have gotten forced into this because Autodesk as bought the CAM they were using. If you want to use CAM with Solidworks you should look at one of the Solidworks partners.

Pete, if we go with Autodesk we'll get the collection with Inventor/HSM Works plus Partmaker/FeatureCAM. I am currently using Solidworks because that is what was used at the owners' last shop and they just got a few licenses for R&D on a project for another company they own (LOL). They gave me freedom to choose whatever seemed the best fit for the new shop.
 
Curiosity - Are you dealing with Programming Plus? And, what Turning Center with Y and Sub did you get? I ask because we are right now dealing with four MTBs, engineering, pricing, & evaluating a turn key. So your experiences might be of interest/value. As for CAM, since you are already in AD products, you should definitely look into PowerMill. My bias for it is well documented within this and other forums.

Zahnrad I bought a Tsugami M08SY form Morris Midwest, who are doing the turnkey. They are both subsidiaries of the same company (MM and REM Sales, the Tsugami importer). Morris has been fantastic so far - really responsive through a few curveballs.

I'm working with NexGenCAM in Port Washington for the Autdesk products and post-processing/modeling. I guess they do robot applications as well but we didn't get into that since we've got no robot/gantry plans for now.
 
I'm working with NexGenCAM in Port Washington for the Autdesk products and post-processing/modeling. I guess they do robot applications as well but we didn't get into that since we've got no robot/gantry plans for now.

I guessed that you weren't dealing with AD directly when you mentioned partmaker. I don't know what your vendor told you, but be aware that partmaker is now apparently deprecated - just in case that was influencing your decision. Also, that line about FC learning your preferences over time is bullshit, it has no such intelligence. It has good configurable defaults, but nothing that "learns". Be wary of salesman bullshit.

That said, and since you don't seem to be phased about going with AD, featurecam is actually very strong for turning and mill-turn, on of the best for that kind of work. Good multi turret / multi path and multi axis support, good toolpath control, part transfer etc., and the xbuild post editor is really excellent, so you won't find yourself hopelessly dependant on your vendor when you have post issues, if you take the time to learn the (very simple) scripting language it uses.
 
Here's a question, though. Why is it that I had no idea Mastercam was still around until the tech school instructor mentioned them? Not coming from this industry I figured they died off or hadn't kept up and that's why no one was talking about them on the forums or Youtube. To me, that's is an indication that they have not engaged their users to a degree that they are out their singing the software's praises. I don't get that about Autodesk stuff, or NX, or Esprit, or...

Just end the thread. You've already drank the koolaid.

By the sounds of things you must spend all you internet time on Titans youtube channel. If you honestly think Mastercam is going anywhere as far as #1 in CAM in the next 5 years your crazy. Crawl out from under your crowd sourced rock and get in touch with what's going on in this industry.
 








 
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