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CAM software

n2ihp

Plastic
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Location
Winooski, Vt. 05404
I am considering purchasing CAM software to reduce programing time in my shop. I currently am using HELIX design system as my CAD package. Helix is the follow on product developed from CADAM and it has 2D and 3D modules. I can output in various formats inclung DWG and DXF files. I have looked at the Gibbs Cam web site but have never seen the product in person. I have tried the demo for BobCad but not enough yet to make a decision. I searched this site for messages regarding CAM packages but did't find answers to the questions that I have.

I will be using the CAM package for programing an Omniturn lathe. Maybe a mill in the future, so turning is what I am most interested in right now. Does anyone know how much Gibbs Cam cost's? Has anyone done this comparison already? What should I be looking for or looking to avoid? Suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
John in Burlington, VT, @ -15 deg.F and dropping.
 
You might be interested in looking at Dolphin if you are into a turning package.
http://www.dolphin.gb.com/
Bill Griffin is the US agent for it and they do demo disks.
It's a full mill and turn package with a vast amount of features on lathe that even Mastercam lathe cannot match and at a far greater cost saving.
You can even define irregular work shape for working with castings and forgings so you cut down to amount of air time.

It comes with 31 posts for lathes and 81 posts for mills.
Any special posts are free from Dolhin or you can write your own with the supplied post software, all in at the price.
No idea what US pricing is but I'm ceratain it's less than $1K and there are no annual maintance contracts.

Programs like Bobcad and Vector although being advertised as lathe programs are nothing short of two axis mill programs. Neither program can support threading, grooving, parting off etc.

John S.
 
Gibbs will empty your wallet to the tune of about $13,000 US. Plus if you want unlimmited support there is another $1300 a year maintanance fee. I use Gibbs at work. It is a very powerful program that will do just about anything you can throw at it. It will also open almost any file type directly. That said I am shopping for a Cam package for my home shop and I am looking at OneCNC right now ($3500.00)

Hope that helps

Take Care

ARB
 
might want to consider looking at EGS "feature cam" http://www.featurecam.com/. Like many software companies, they have several packages to cover the machining spectrum so you can target a specific requirement. We have their 2.5D feature mill program and may in the future purchase "feature turn". We struggled with less expensive software (read BC) and found out the limitations very quickly. One CNC? have their demo pkg and do not think it nearly as nicely done as the EGS products.(or others) Might work good for you.
Nation wide,MasterCam is probably the most popular and we would have gone that way had we not been able to download and play with the feature cam program and get a feel for its capabilities. For us at least, it was a good decision and we are happy with the program. One of the things we like most about the feature mill program is the ability to render the part in 3D and machine it graphically in any position and really fine tune the machining program before we cut metal. One of our suppliers manufactures jet pumps for outboards and uses Gibbs and "G-Zero and they tell us that of the two they prefer the latter,which by the way is much less expensive. regards, and hope this is helpful

sas
 
Like John S.we use Dolphin.It is that easy that my son who is not a machinist to trade
was writing reasonable sized programmes for a lathe within a few hours of first starting to use it.In Scotland at least they are just a normal phone call away and are very helpful.
Not expensive either.
Regards,Mark.
 
What about BobCAD/CAM ? Seems reasonably priced. Supposed to do 95% of what most machine shops want ? Anybody have any experience with this one ?
 
I am a BOBCAM user, it works, BUT it is no master cam! It can do most of the things that I need to do but it is slow and clumsy. I find that there are errors in the programs that it generates, you should have no problem if you are already programming without a software package. Some of the features included have never worked for me. I realize the shortcommings and work around them. My machine allows me to plot toolpaths before commiting carbide and steel to the output of BOBCAD. The program tries to be a complete CAD and CAM package and that can be a big job for expensive packages. I get an offer to become a dealer for the software about every 6 months. I think that the cost is about 2000.00 for 5 seats to be retailed for 995.00 per seat. Don't qoute those prices, but that is the general idea. If there was any interest on this I would follow up and consider a "group buy" Visit their web site and check it out. I think I have version 17 there have been updates since I got mine about 2 years ago. It works but it is not a brainless thing, few things really are though....
 
I'm also a BobCad user. I'm a newbie to CNC. I've had my mill for about a year, and my lathe for about 8 months. I learned to program w/o cam software. I needed to build some fixtures that needed 3d profiling, and bobcad worked fine for that. I'm sure you not getting the optimal tool path compaired to Mcam or VG, but the program is much simpler and easier to learn. I went through the tutorial one weekend and learned what I needed to know. If your not going to use it everyday BC will get you by. I'm using V17 but have the upgraded V18 on order. I wouldn't recommend BC for any Lathe applications. It's geared more towards Milling, and it seems like the Lathe section was an afterthought.
 
I used to use Bobcad at one stage before Dolphin changed over to Windows and they had a 9 island limit in DOS.
I had no end of problems with this program, the main one being that I had to manually edit much of the program as I had no control over the output.
The lack of an editing facility was a backwards move for me. Having to go thru the whole selection again just to alter one part or cutting and pasting is an accident looking to happen.
V18 *STILL* has problems with spurious Z moves. I did a die mould once and it left a nice 1 mm deep pocket right in the middle of the bottom surface after a 5 hour job on the machine.

John S.
 
I agree totally with sasbenson, I also use FeatureCAM both the 2-1/2D milling and the wire e.d.m. module. Great product, very easy to learn. I have used Mastercam in the past and I think FeatureCAM is far superior due to it's "feature based" machining stategies. Good luck.
 
What kind of cabbage are we talking about for the full monte Feature Cam? Well enough for 3D stuff.
biggrin.gif


Take Care

ARB
 
Ok, well as long we are out in the open about Bob Cad v17,18, I suppose it might be ok for the home shop or "tinkerer" who just likes to fool around with this kind of stuff OR someone who knows G code extremely well and can visually scan the lines of code and edit out the bad stuff. But if you are serious about making parts and want a low frustration level you need something better. The price and sales pitch by the BobCad people hooked us the first time and believe me the people that sold us this stuff made it sound like we could do everything the higher priced programs would do for thousands less.(dumb me I fell for it) NOT SO! With Feature cam, when we go to the machine and down load a floppy we know damn well its going to work because we can sit at the computer and simulate every single detail about tooling,feeds and speed and virtually every other aspect needed to machine the part FIRST. IMHO, and with all due respect for the BobCad people,comparing EGS FeatureCam with BobCad v17,18 is like comparing a 71 pinto with a new Lincoln Town Car. Yeah, you can do the job allright but it sure ain,t as easy or comfortable. Hey, there are people out there that don,'t need no stinkin' software, they can program right off the damn print and crank out line after line of flawless code but I ain't one of em, I need a program that actually Helps me make the part as quickly and easly as possible. Start screwing around with circular interpolations and and you can see right away why a computer is needed. I dont,t work for EGS nor do I have anything personal against BobCad just Our opinion.

sas

[This message has been edited by sasbenson (edited 02-20-2003).]
 
I,m not exactly sure, but I think FeatureCAM 2-1/2D is about $3500.00, and to add 3D is about $3500.00?
 
Well, Sasbenson
I think you hit the nail on the head, Bobcad works for me ,about like it worked for you. I feel better to hear that others have to edit all code in order to insure that the tool goes where you want it to. I paid about 400.00 for my copy, I would have a hard time springing for 7000.00 for a better package. It has helped me to be a better programmer because it is not too dependable. I guess that is a good thing?
 
ok, well is there a cad/cam package out there that produces more reliable G code than bobcam and you don't have to sell your first born to buy it? I mean, really, $3500 for a cadcam package! How about something in the $1500 max range ? I'm not a production machinist so time to complete a project doesn't bend me out of shape ..ie extra NON-CUTTING movements by the tool or inefficient coding are ok but i really don't want to see a workpiece ruined by a cutting tool doing something to the work piece that's not in the plan and with my luck that would happen right at the end of a big project.
 
Sorry to keep harping on but Dolphin is definitely worth a look for a low cost program.
I can't give a firm price as I don't sell it, I'm just a well satisfied user, but I believe it's around $700

Where this scores over the write the code on the fly programs such as Bobcad and Vector is that it has a genuine post processor.
For those that are not sure what this is a Post Processor is the part of the program that writes the code to suit your machine.
Bobcad etc has no post processor but configuration files. These when selected write the code in blocks between the profiles to be machined. So in Bobcad you select start program and it writes the code to initialise the machine. You then select the tool and it writes the tool change code. You then select speed and it writes the speed section code. You then tell it to lower the tool and select the first part to be cut and tell it which way to cut.
And so on until the program is done.
If you make any mistakes you have to delete that block from the code and redo that part.

In Dolphin when you define a contour you are asked it's depth. In the CAM side you first off have a setup screen where you define tool change positions and name the program. Next you get a tool definition window where you define the tool. In this window you define size, depth of cut per pass and tool number. Next screen gives you tool select. In this one you specify speed and feed for XY and Z.
Next screen will be the command needed for the operation, Goround, Pocket, Area Clear etc.
Take Goround as an option, you get to select the contour and this then automatically takes the previous defined depth, tool size and automatically works out the tool offset and number of passes to cut this to full depth and even gives you a time.
Hit the post button and your code is completly written, NO manaul editing at all.
If say you decide that the 3/8" cutter you selected isn't correct for the job after seeing the graphical display on the screen, you can double click on the tool, change it to 1/4" and hit post again and you will get the amended file. ANY operations can be edited this way.

All you ever get to see on the screen is the 2D work profile. No need to draw offsets and follow them. No need to define the direction, all this is user selectable in the various display boxes as they appear and don't worry if one is wrong, just reselect it and change it.

There is a screen shot at:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson-engineers/files/Area%20clear1.jpg
That shows the simply layout. You can see that only four commands are entered.
Tool define, tool select, area clear the 'O' ring groove and area clear the slot. Because the slots are all defined in the same group I have selected the option 'machine all contours with same group number'
This then goes on the machine the other three slots without having to select them.

It truely is a user defined program. If say I wanted to machine the slots before the groove I would just drag the operation up a line, hit post and the new file would be produced. No redrawing, no manually editing the code and perfect code every time.

John S.
 
John,

Don't mind your harping about dolphin but I did check out the dolphin site that you listed in one of you previous posts. Sounds like a great package but the price listed in U.K. pounds looks to be between $1800 to $4000 US dollars, definitely not $900. I could stretch for the $1800 package if i knew what i was getting. Would you be willing to post a telephone number, address, email for the US dealer of dolphin so that i can get a demo copy and figure out what the costs actually are for the differnet versions of dolphin ?

thanks
noahjlb
 
Noarjlb,
The US agent for Dolphin is Bill Griffin.
His web site is:-
http://www.grifftek.com

The details and some good screen shots of Dolphin are at :-
http://www.grifftek.com/dolphincadcam/

Prices are at:-
http://www.grifftek.com/dolphincadcam/new_page_2.htm

Bill lists the hobby version at $395 which compared to the like of Blobcad and Vector make this very affordable.
The hobby version only differs from the full version in that it's limited to use two post processors only.
The full commercial version users have a choice of over 80 post to choose from.
This is just Dolphins way of limiting commercial users from taking advantage of the offers made to home shop guys who struggle to justify spending $1,000's on software.
 








 
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