Can anyone tell me why Surfcam or Mastercam is better? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Z View Post
    Our support is very good also.
    +1

    regardless of who, if you can get support when you need that defines it by itself as a better package. Support such as toolpath mods, pp, even having the possibility to send out a part out for example request is what makes a better software than another. These days anyway...

    Find out who charge less for this added value and this should answer your question pretty well

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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Z View Post
    I have been a Surfcam user since 1994 and it has never let me down. I import files from Solidworks from engineering with no problems. Our support is very good also. We do a lot of multi surface machining. I am going to check out the lathe package sometime.
    Surfcam 'traditional' user?

    Although I'm fairly new to turning, the lathe stuff is pretty pathetic in my opinion and doesn't work nearly as well as the milling side. It does weird stuff at times. Like "face-off" seems to add extra spring passes depending what you enter for how much to remove + finish doc.

    I agree support has been decent, but then again I have nothing to compare to as I've only used this so far.

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidetalker View Post
    Surfcam 'traditional' user?

    Although I'm fairly new to turning, the lathe stuff is pretty pathetic in my opinion and doesn't work nearly as well as the milling side. It does weird stuff at times. Like "face-off" seems to add extra spring passes depending what you enter for how much to remove + finish doc.

    I agree support has been decent, but then again I have nothing to compare to as I've only used this so far.
    So your new to turning, you think the Surfcam lathe package is pathetic, and it's the only package you've used so far, ok........

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    Mirror toolpath has been in SurfCam as long as I can remember. Don't tell people something is 'nowhere to be found' when your too lazy to look for it.


    Edit, len beat me too it, I hadn't refreshed before quoting
    Well done! Then let me say, the mirror toolpath sucked in surfcam, AND the local help could not support us. It does have a mirror toolpath (I should have stated that instead of implying...) but it does not autocorrect for climb milling the way Mastercam does... or maybe it does but is buried and even our local support couldn't find it...humm.

    Anyways, to Len's point, I don't know the difference between verisons. Is there an "ok" version and completely terrible version? If so, we got the latter. I will say, and take it for what you want, I tried Mastercam before it was windows based and that sucked too. It is vastly improved from what they had, maybe Surfcam just went backwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1974 View Post
    Well done! Then let me say, the mirror toolpath sucked in surfcam, AND the local help could not support us. It does have a mirror toolpath (I should have stated that instead of implying...) but it does not autocorrect for climb milling the way Mastercam does... or maybe it does but is buried and even our local support couldn't find it...humm.
    If you look at the pic I put up you will see there is a button called "REVERSE" may not be automatic like MasterCam but can be done. first MIRROR the path then REVERSE it.


    Anyways, to Len's point, I don't know the difference between verisons. Is there an "ok" version and completely terrible version? If so, we got the latter. I will say, and take it for what you want, I tried Mastercam before it was windows based and that sucked too. It is vastly improved from what they had, maybe Surfcam just went backwards.
    If you check out VERO's website you'll see the 2 versions Surfcam Traditional is basically the same as the 2012 version you ran, Surfcam is now based on EdgeCam, very confusing to the old user base, they first were calling it EVO then did the name switch, just complained again to them yesterday how people get the two mixed up.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails surfcam-traditional-inc-transform.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    So your new to turning, you think the Surfcam lathe package is pathetic, and it's the only package you've used so far, ok........
    Geez some of you on here are so grumpy and up tight. What are you confused about? Point is, you don't have to actually step in dog shit to realize it is in fact, dog shit.

    Do you think people would actually buy surfcam for it's lathe package alone? LOL.

    Yes new, like 6 months give or take. I guess in some people's opinions here that would make them an expert, but to me that's still relatively new. Having used the mill side for 3 years, I have a pretty good sense of how surfcam works, it's shortcomings, bugs, etc.. I can use the Lathe stuff and it is a joke.

    It's all 2D. Unless you live under a rock, you might realize some of the other softwares are capable of using 3D geometry for turning, without having to draw parting lines first. And guess what? you don't have to actually USE them yourself - there's a thing called youtube. You should check it out.

    How about displaying toolholders in verify? Na, not for turning. That's if you can even get it to verify correctly. In milling, I can add my stock, then make cviews where ever the hell on the part I want to, and it verifies correctly. In lathe its a crapshoot to get an op2 to verify correctly, and most of the time it seems it wont place the stock in the correct position.

    Like I mentioned before, "face-off" is terrible and adds wrong number of finish passes, compare to milling operations where you specify stock to remove, rough and finish depth of cuts. Face-off doesn't work quite right. Resulted to just using face now instead.

    I stick with it because many of the lathe parts we do are fairly simple, but may also require milling. I'd rather keep them all in one file, than use two different cam systems to program different operations of the same part. Some I do as mill/turn for the ST10Y, some go in the verticals for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, whatever ops. I'm somewhat satisfied with the milling stuff for now, so I'm not in a big hurry to drop another 20 or 30k on a new cam system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by len_1962 View Post
    If you look at the pic I put up you will see there is a button called "REVERSE" may not be automatic like MasterCam but can be done. first MIRROR the path then REVERSE it.
    I held off from posting about this but I thought Mike1974 was right. I need to make a left/right of a simple part today and gave this a shot. Sure enough, no dice.

    Mirroring creates a nice mirrored path, but conventional cutting like previously posted. I tried "reversing" that mirrored path, and it does now climb cut... however the path is reversed and starts from the wall and moves outwards.



    Once again, back to mirroring geometry, copy/paste setup, then re-select all the geometry for mirrored part. Oh and adjust all the leads if they aren't the same for in/out. Fun stuff...

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    Is there a rotate option? I've done this in HSMWorks when I have two mirrored parts in a vise using a center point between them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thesidetalker View Post
    I held off from posting about this but I thought Mike1974 was right. I need to make a left/right of a simple part today and gave this a shot. Sure enough, no dice.

    Mirroring creates a nice mirrored path, but conventional cutting like previously posted. I tried "reversing" that mirrored path, and it does now climb cut... however the path is reversed and starts from the wall and moves outwards.



    Once again, back to mirroring geometry, copy/paste setup, then re-select all the geometry for mirrored part. Oh and adjust all the leads if they aren't the same for in/out. Fun stuff...
    @side,

    my bad I haven't used the reverse in a long time, spoke out of turn.

    i have SW and do all my setup there, put the parts into an an assembly so I have the left and right setup with material and locations for my zeros then when I open in surfcam traditional all hive to bo is go to the layers of each part and material, set a cview and start programming, do one setup section then copy that and then just repick the stuff on the other. Depending on the complexity 5 min to an hour for multi sided after the copy setup section. SolidWorks is the time saver and if you change the SW file surfcam trad warns you of the change and asks if you want to reload the new data.

    @atom

    yes look at the pic I post earlier has all the functions HSMWORKS has and a few more.

    to all currently using HSMWORKS Every day, ASU has 3000 seats, but when it cannot do something SW already has my setup, open in surfcam, same bat time same bat location same bat channel, no money farting around just start applying toolpath and go.

    i just had a part that I had to do this for HSMWORKS cannot do a 3D undercut with a form tool, surfcam could.

    Lenny

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by len_1962 View Post
    @side,

    my bad I haven't used the reverse in a long time, spoke out of turn.

    i have SW and do all my setup there, put the parts into an an assembly so I have the left and right setup with material and locations for my zeros then when I open in surfcam traditional all hive to bo is go to the layers of each part and material, set a cview and start programming, do one setup section then copy that and then just repick the stuff on the other. Depending on the complexity 5 min to an hour for multi sided after the copy setup section. SolidWorks is the time saver and if you change the SW file surfcam trad warns you of the change and asks if you want to reload the new data.
    I see. I was actually hoping I thought wrong and maybe it would work. I could really use a better way for mirrored parts. I haven't tried reverse before. Sucks it doesn't work out so well.

    I do exactly that as well. Normally on left/right parts I model (or import) one in SW, then mirror in there first. Then in Surfcam program both parts in the same file. Although they don't necessarily have to be the same file - I'm glad you can at least copy/paste toolpaths or even whole setup sections from one .scprt file to another.

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    I have been using Surfcam Traditional since 1995 we have six licensed copy’s and use Surfcam Traditional to run our CNC Mills and Laths. The past few years there have been a lot of bugs and some errors that are significant. We do what we can to report the bugs for corrections because fixing bugs is part of and included with our fee of $ 6,500+ for annual maintenance. We are not happy with Surfcam resolving the bugs and related problems. There are all kinds of bugs and continued loss of functionality. With every new version it becomes more difficult to use Surfcam and along with more difficulty they keep adding mouse clicks to get the same work completed. When I say mouse clicks I’m talking about how many times I need to select a button or feature to get something accomplished. We just recently upgraded to version 2019 R1 in part because version 2018 R2 required six mouse clicks just to print anything. If we needed to print 3 drawings this resulted in 18 or more mouse clicks. In the past version 2017 and earlier we could print with 1 or 2 mouse clicks. This is only one sample of how Surfcam Traditional has lost functionality and become full of program bugs. In the last week Surfcam has crashed fifteen times on three different computers. I remember back in 2002 when I had to constantly save my file due to program crashes well now we are in mid-2019 and we are right back to 17 years ago program bugs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WENO View Post
    I have been using Surfcam Traditional since 1995 we have six licensed copy’s and use Surfcam Traditional to run our CNC Mills and Laths. The past few years there have been a lot of bugs and some errors that are significant. We do what we can to report the bugs for corrections because fixing bugs is part of and included with our fee of $ 6,500+ for annual maintenance. We are not happy with Surfcam resolving the bugs and related problems. There are all kinds of bugs and continued loss of functionality. With every new version it becomes more difficult to use Surfcam and along with more difficulty they keep adding mouse clicks to get the same work completed. When I say mouse clicks I’m talking about how many times I need to select a button or feature to get something accomplished. We just recently upgraded to version 2019 R1 in part because version 2018 R2 required six mouse clicks just to print anything. If we needed to print 3 drawings this resulted in 18 or more mouse clicks. In the past version 2017 and earlier we could print with 1 or 2 mouse clicks. This is only one sample of how Surfcam Traditional has lost functionality and become full of program bugs. In the last week Surfcam has crashed fifteen times on three different computers. I remember back in 2002 when I had to constantly save my file due to program crashes well now we are in mid-2019 and we are right back to 17 years ago program bugs.
    This post really sounds like a I-didn't-save-and-lost-a-day's-worth-of-work kind of post. What's your process? Import a model, program it, then only save when you're trying to post code (cause it asks you to save first)

    As much as I also like complaining about surfcam (for me, their maintenance costs and their updates which add nothing of value to me) this doesn't seem like a worthy complaint. (ok maybe the crashing, but you should be saving your shit more often. OR USE AUTOSAVE too)

    What are all these clicks to get to print? File, print, OK. Same as any other program...

    What is forcing you to use the newest version? IMO, the last several "updates" were crap. I'm still using 2017, before that I stuck with 2014. Nothing in the newer ones I need. Can you not use a more stable (lol) version?

    I've learned to just save every couple toolpaths I add. Don't have to think about it anymore. It doesn't bother me either. Weird since I only do this in Surfcam. Any modeling I do in solidworks or autocad I usually dont' save nearly as often. Kind of sucks, but I do enjoy the the software's capability.

  17. #33
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    This thread is a couple years old and it doesn't appear anything has changed with Surfcam. I started using Surfcam in the mid '90s after about 5 years using Mastercam. In the mid '90s I'd say both were pretty equal. I can't say anything else about Mastercam but Surfcam has worked will for me even though I stopped paying the maintenance fees after 2012. Surfware, the company that developed Surfcam, is not around anymore and I thought that would be a good thing but after reading the comments here it sounds like the things haven't changed much. About a year ago I inquired about upgrading to the latest version but the cost to do so wasn't cost effective for me. I'm sure glade I didn't. Vero shot themselves in the foot by not waiving upgrade fees when they took over and deprived themselves the needed cash to further develop Surfcam and clean it up.


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