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Comparison of measure tools in 3D cad systems

gregormarwick

Diamond
Joined
Feb 7, 2007
Location
Aberdeen, UK
I'm hoping to get some opinions on the functionality of the measurement tools in everyone's cad software.

I am familiar with Solidworks and NX, so I want to know about the rest.

Our workflow is that one of us creates a manufacturing solid model from the customer's drawing. Someone else checks that model, then we use it for everything from CAM to inspection. The checking part is easy in NX because the measurement tools are great. It sucks in Solidworks because the measurement tool (singular) is pathetic. As you might have guessed, for a number of reasons we are all using Solidworks here right now, and I am growing desperately sick of it.

The projected distance function in NX effectively projects the distance along a vector, this is in contrast to SW (and some others) that can only project onto a plane. The latter requires many more steps in most cases to get the result. The deltas in SW only function if one of the entities is planar. This is something that I seem to need to do frequently at various stages of the workflow, and the inadequacy of the SW method is infuriating.

Before I push for (and attempt to budget) a wholesale shift to NX, are there others that have actually good measurement tools?
 
What more do you want? :confused:


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What more do you want? :confused:

That's a very simple example. I'll give you one that is typical for me.

Say I have a hole at an arbitrary angle to a surface. The hole intersects another feature at the bottom. I need to know the length of the hole from the intersection with the surface, to the deepest point of it's intersection with faces of the other feature.

In NX, you can use Projected Distance, select the axis or even just the surface of the hole as the projection vector, infer the centre point of the surface intersection, select the edge of the intersection at the bottom, select "maximum clearance", and have your answer. Mouse clicks to perform = number of commas in the sentence.

In SW, you have to "show temporary axis", construct a plane on the axis of the hole, somehow constrain it to be coincident with the max extent of intersection of the second feature, create a sketch on that plane, create an intersection curve of the surface you want to measure, dimension that curve, THEN you have your answer. This is the only functional method of obtaining such a measurement that I have found in SW. Even if you were to construct a plane to project onto, it won't work because SW measure tool can only min-max a radii.
 
Do you have a picture? I'm having a hard time figuring exactly what you are looking for.

It sounds like you have a hole connecting two surfaces, none of which are orthogonal to each other. On the first surface, is your point of interest at the intersection of the hole axis and surface 1, or the edge of the hole that is furthest from surface 2 (measured along the hole axis)?

While not as quick as the NX option sounds like, I think you may be able to do this relatively easily with a 3D sketch. I've used it for what sounds to be similar problems in the past.
 
Do you have a picture? I'm having a hard time figuring exactly what you are looking for.

It sounds like you have a hole connecting two surfaces, none of which are orthogonal to each other. On the first surface, is your point of interest at the intersection of the hole axis and surface 1, or the edge of the hole that is furthest from surface 2 (measured along the hole axis)?

While not as quick as the NX option sounds like, I think you may be able to do this relatively easily with a 3D sketch. I've used it for what sounds to be similar problems in the past.

No picture, it's just a typical example. You're on the right track anyway. POI could be either, again just an example.

You could use a 3D sketch instead of projected one, but it would only be a very minor benefit, still have to intersect with something to create a vertex to measure, otherwise SW will only ever give you the spatial minimum.

Really just trying to determine what other systems might be viable options - I have a number of other issues with SW besides this one. The only thing tying me to SW right now is other users here who don't want to switch, but I can mandate it if there is value in doing so.
 
I can't help you with other systems. I used to use CATIA, but it's been so long I don't remember much about the measurement functionality.

The trick I've found to using 3D sketches for measuring is to set up a line that you want to measure along and then drop perpendiculars from it to the controlling geometry to set the length of the line. I'll use this a fair amount in the design phase, so I can make a change to the design and see at a glance how it changes some of the overall measurements that I care about.
 
The trick I've found to using 3D sketches for measuring is to set up a line that you want to measure along and then drop perpendiculars from it to the controlling geometry to set the length of the line. I'll use this a fair amount in the design phase, so I can make a change to the design and see at a glance how it changes some of the overall measurements that I care about.

Yeah, that's what I understood from your previous reply. It's a nice trick, but still requires an explicit vertex or point to constrain the perpendicular line to, and you don't always/usually have that, so it still becomes a lot of busywork for a trivial query.
 
I agree that the solidworks measure tool is a freaking joke. My assumption was that there is better functionality in the software, and I just haven't discovered it.

When the SW tools can't get what I need, I bring parts into hyperCAD for measurement, which is actually pretty good. Perhaps your CAM software has a CAD package that can actually inspect worth a damn?

Keep us updated when/if you make the switch. With the absurd cost of maintenance on our two seats of Solidworks, I have been seriously tempted to switch to a better CAD package. They know the pain of learning and implementing a new software will keep us mid level users hooked - and are pricing accordingly.
 
I agree that the solidworks measure tool is a freaking joke. My assumption was that there is better functionality in the software, and I just haven't discovered it.

When the SW tools can't get what I need, I bring parts into hyperCAD for measurement, which is actually pretty good. Perhaps your CAM software has a CAD package that can actually inspect worth a damn?

Keep us updated when/if you make the switch. With the absurd cost of maintenance on our two seats of Solidworks, I have been seriously tempted to switch to a better CAD package. They know the pain of learning and implementing a new software will keep us mid level users hooked - and are pricing accordingly.

Serious question: how hard is it to migrate SW files to Catia? You'd think it wouldn't be too bad because they're from the same company, buuuuut...........
 
Serious question: how hard is it to migrate SW files to Catia?

IMHO CATIA is a more powerful CAD package, but not necessarily a better one. It has all of the power, tools, and flexibility to design an airplane, but it takes 5X longer to model a pair of soft jaws. The last time I used CATIA was about five years ago, and I don't think there was any cross-compatibility at that time. I doubt they will ever give CATIA the ability to bring in SW parts as anything other than dumb solids.

NX CAD looks promising, though I suspect it might be very similar to CATIA in practice. TopSolid has a lot of similar functionality, but is clearly leaps-and-bounds better than SW. I'm sure there are others, but I'd much rather spend my time improving any other part of our workflow instead of looking into CAD which always feels like a chore.
 
I'm pretty sure I don't understand what you are describing, but is this close? This is Solid Edge.

That's the right idea, but I'm not sure it's doing what I'd want it to. Kind of hard to tell from the photo but it still looks like it's just measuring the shortest distance between two points.

I mocked up the below in SW to show my point. The hoops I had to jump through to get that measurement is absurd. Three constructed planes and three constructed sketches just to create the points required to take a measurement. I could have taken the dimension in the sketch, but the point is to show how useless the measure tool is, and even that is still a lot more work than the NX method. I don't have access to NX any more to do a comparison, but it would just have been a case of selecting the hole or the axis of the hole, selecting the edges at either end, and selecting maximum clearance.

3H1ehiv.png
 
I've been busy with remodeling for the last few days but was intrigued by the original post. I should state that I am in no way an expert with SW nor will I offer any excuses for the limitation of Solid Quirks. Surfacing, measuring, and several other modules are rather limited in capability but it does most of what I need it to do with a minimum of fuss. Perhaps larger, more capable programs can be a bit cumbersome with the added capability. Don't know, haven't become proficient enough with CATIA (or NX) to make a qualified comment.

On to your example, I tried to recreate/resemble your model as best I could without having your dimensions. If the entry/exit hole/cut is symmetric on both ends (centered about a reference plane) then it was just inserting two "reference" point on the ellipse and checking distance, no other sketch or planes needed. The location of these point can be constrained several ways.

For asymmetric shapes I needed to create one 3D sketch to "convert" the asymmetric exit geometry to place a reference point before taking a measurement. This may be more steps to take than NX, SW may just be the wrong tool for what you need to do. Some times I want a jig borer, sometimes a cordless drill is what I want. It was an interesting exercise for me and I enjoyed exploring something I wasn't sure how to do. Thanks. Screen shots below.

PM.JPG
PM-2.jpg
PM-3.jpg
PM-4.JPG
 
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Center to center of hole from the cylinder surface or long point to long point at surface tangential to hole? One should just be the tape measure tool (center to center).
The long point to long point would be the length of a pin that just clears the hole. Draw a pin (cylinder) the same diameter as the hole, but along the x axis. using align tool align part, with hole as surface to align and pin as surface to align to. Delete the pin, and then explode a spline on each hole end. Now the tape tool should pick up the long point vertices of the splines.
Trying to draw multiple planes and lines perpendicular to a pipe saddle shape is an exercise I would prefer not to do when I can just rotate the part in computer and have it magically know min and max vertices.
Oops, snap to work plane or xy before using tape tool or your delta z will be confusing, you want that to be zero.

I use a cheap fork of Catia, or Catia is the knockoff corporate fork of what I use. No cam add ons tho.
 
I use a cheap fork of Catia, or Catia is the knockoff corporate fork of what I use. No cam add ons tho.
What software are you talking about? Catia has always been owned by Dassault, I don't think there are any forks of it.

Catia can easily do the measurements you're talking about here.
 
Probably already moved on, but this is in mastercam -

TEST MEASURE.JPG

Is that what you are looking for, center to center distance? (yes I know the bottom isn't quite through, but I would measure the same way if it was)
 
In T-Flex, you click measure, press [2], click the entry and exit. The max distance is shown, as well as other measurements.T-FLEX mesurement.jpg
 
Ummmmm....

SW can measure point to point, plane to point, edge to edge, center to center, center to plane, center to point, center to line, origin to anything......etc, etc, etc.

What version of SW are you using that doesn't have this?
 
Didn't notice this had been picked up again, thanks for the additional replies.

Probably already moved on, but this is in mastercam -

Is that what you are looking for, center to center distance? (yes I know the bottom isn't quite through, but I would measure the same way if it was)

Not exactly, but still more useful than SW. Extents are what I'm interested in.

In T-Flex, you click measure, press [2], click the entry and exit. The max distance is shown, as well as other measurements.View attachment 299073

Yes, that's what I'm looking for, I think...

Does ( / can) T-Flex use an explicitly defined vector, or is it picking up the centreline of the hole automatically? Being able to explicitly define a vector and then measure the projected extents of two geometric entities (faces, vertices, points) is what I'm interested in - the angled hole thing was just an example of this rather than a specific geometry that I need to measure.

I'm actually surprised to encounter somebody using T-Flex! I did notice it when researching all the possible alternatives, but being Russian software it seems to be non-existent in the UK and Europe. Do many people use it in the US?

How do you like it?

Ummmmm....

SW can measure point to point, plane to point, edge to edge, center to center, center to plane, center to point, center to line, origin to anything......etc, etc, etc.

What version of SW are you using that doesn't have this?

I am using 2020, and many previous versions. In no version of SW does the measuring tool have the ability to quickly and easily measure max/min extents of arbitrary geometry projected along an explicit vector.
 
Yes, that's what I'm looking for, I think...

Does ( / can) T-Flex use an explicitly defined vector, or is it picking up the centreline of the hole automatically? Being able to explicitly define a vector and then measure the projected extents of two geometric entities (faces, vertices, points) is what I'm interested in - the angled hole thing was just an example of this rather than a specific geometry that I need to measure.

I'm actually surprised to encounter somebody using T-Flex! I did notice it when researching all the possible alternatives, but being Russian software it seems to be non-existent in the UK and Europe. Do many people use it in the US?

How do you like it?

I don't believe T-Flex has such a feature. Though you can easily create a 3D path (vector) and place 3D nodes (points) where it intersects geometry and use those for a measurement.

I like T-Flex quite a bit. I'm not aware of any one else using it here in the states. It fits my needs and the price was right; about half that of Solidworks. I actually like it more than Solidworks and it includes some nice features and capabilities standard that you'd either get nickel and dimed for or just aren't available in other mid tiered packages. The only area I felt it was lacking in was it's surface modeling, which was just updated in v17. I'm off maintenance so I haven't tried it yet, but I plan to trial it when I have the time and will probably renew my maintenance if it's as good as it looks.
 








 
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