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  1. #21
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    Single thread performance chart:
    PassMark CPU Benchmarks - Single Thread Performance

    AMD has the crown now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    Advice on what?
    Expert advice on what components to choose for the intended use of the computer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Expert advice on what components to choose for the intended use of the computer.
    You paid an "expert" $125 for advice on what components to buy to build a computer?
    You sir,got robbed for a completely unnecessary "sevice".

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    You paid an "expert" $125 for advice on what components to buy to build a computer?
    You sir,got robbed for a completely unnecessary "sevice".
    Yes. Why do you think professional advice was unnecessary?

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    Here is my bit of advice... STAY AWAY FROM A LAPTOP! Personal preference but people overpay for laptops!

    I have a POS workshop PC that takes forever to generate 3D profiles but it cost me the equivalent of ummmm... $280, used from an office that closed down. Old school one of the pre-build desktops and it will still kick a $350 laptop all day long.

    Then for more complex things I had a, roughly, $1400 desktop built for me that has kicked butt for the last 4 years. That is excluding the monitor but it has yet to face a complex program that it cannot manage. I did upgrade to an SSD about a year ago which was a great upgrade but not really needed. Don't let anyone convince you that you need a graphics card meant for CAD/CAM... You will find a gaming GPU that is half the price that will outperform it.

    Before I had my current shop PC i ran a Pentium celeron to edit programs quickly. So it takes a bit longer to process but it got the job done. I am tech savvy and it was a proper POS but got things done. Look for a serious beast that will last you 10 years, in my area you would have to lay out about $1 000. but you will not have to worry for a LONG time.

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    So to run over a certain amount of RAM you need to run 64bit. I suggest matched 16GB RAM, running on nothing lower than a I5 (I7 is a gimmick, it overclocks on it's own but you wont have to worry about that) 6500 running no less than 3.2 GHz. Then a graphics card whatever your flavor (look for a gaming one as said above) go for the highest that you can afford (I run a GTX 750 from so long ago and it still copes with anything that I throw at it). This is where people don't realise that a decent card takes the load off of your on board RAM.

    Then a decent sound card to play whatever music you are into, thats a cheap upgrade but it helps when you want to punch the keyboard/screen because peed you off YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yan Wo View Post
    Yes. Why do you think professional advice was unnecessary?
    Paying for it was. You can do online searches and see what you need, or just ask here like the OP did...

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAST555 View Post
    So to run over a certain amount of RAM you need to run 64bit. I suggest matched 16GB RAM, running on nothing lower than a I5 (I7 is a gimmick, it overclocks on it's own but you wont have to worry about that) 6500 running no less than 3.2 GHz. Then a graphics card whatever your flavor (look for a gaming one as said above) go for the highest that you can afford (I run a GTX 750 from so long ago and it still copes with anything that I throw at it). This is where people don't realise that a decent card takes the load off of your on board RAM.

    Then a decent sound card to play whatever music you are into, thats a cheap upgrade but it helps when you want to punch the keyboard/screen because peed you off YouTube
    i7 cpu's are not a gimmick, they can multitask better for one.
    And a sound card? This is 2019, sound cards haven't been necessary for 20 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    i7 cpu's are not a gimmick, they can multitask better for one.
    And a sound card? This is 2019, sound cards haven't been necessary for 20 years.

    He's in South Africa.... He's just listening to that new hit, "Sandstorm" by Darude on his 1st gen iPod with HDD.


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    Get as much as you can afford. At least an i7 cpu, a decent video card, and as much ram as you can cram in. As for the rest of it, just spend some time studying your own needs. A good place to start is what software you are going to run. Any reputable CAD/CAM software will have recommendations as to what you need to run it. But beware of what minimum recommendations are and what optimal is.

    Someone said to stay away from a laptop, but my last computer (the one I am writing this post on) is a refurbished MSI laptop and it is a hard, pipe hitting sumbitch. I did a little work on it when I got it. I added RAM; I am running 32 GB which is pretty reasonable for CAD work. RAM is cheap and worth it. Modest 2.60 GZ i7 and a decent Quadro K2200M card. I swapped out the dinky 125 GB SSD for a 500 GB SSD for the OS; and I have a big secondary HD that came with it. I still use Win 7 Pro and I intend to ride that OS into the ground. I have a second monitor for when I am using CAD. I have an old 3Dconnexion Spacemouse Pro which is handy, and a plain jane wireless MS mouse. This is kind of a hotrod machine, at least for what I use it for. It runs Inventor, AutoCAD, and Solid Works very well with absolutely no issues. Since I'm retired, I don't think I will ever get another unless this one crashes and burns. And because it is a laptop, I can work with it in my recliner and take it with me on trips. It works well for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanermo View Post
    Use the biggest monitor You can afford, or 2.
    At least somebody said it .... I don't know about the biggest, but I'll go along with the best you can afford. The monitor is what you look at. Doesn't matter if the computer is faster than greased lightning, if the display is crap so is your experience.

    I also like a spaceball, a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtndew View Post
    i7 cpu's are not a gimmick, they can multitask better for one.
    And a sound card? This is 2019, sound cards haven't been necessary for 20 years.
    So, this is all kind of debateable.

    An i7 is just an i5 with SMT, otherwise they are identical, and SMT is of pretty negligible value to cad/cam work where real, sustained parallelisation is pretty rare.

    Next, in intel's implementation of SMT (similar to just about every other implementation of it), there are a minimum of two logical cores sharing one bank of L2 cache. In working set heavy loads, this means that the two logical cores fight against each other for cache space, termed cache pollution. On modern i7's, the memory access controller / prefetcher contain optimizations to govern which logical core gets cache priority and allocation - this incurs a single thread performance penalty. Hence why in most benchmarks you will see a single thread performance uplift when hyperthreading is disabled.

    I used i7's for years and subjectively, it's very difficult to tell the difference between HT on and HT off. Games benefit from it, everything else not so much.

    IPC and clock speed aside, physical core count always beats logical core count, by which metric AMD blow Intel out of the water anyway.

    I have used Xeon workstations for years for cad/cam. Next one will be a Ryzen with ECC memory. Intel don't support ECC memory on consumer platforms, and I have had enough bad experiences with DDR4 on both Intel and AMD to know that I'm not prepared to use non-ECC DDR4 on a workstation build. Fast DDR4 is great for a gaming pc, for anything else it's a fuck up waiting to happen.

    Regarding sound cards, even on high end motherboards the audio subsystem, while present, is almost always horrible. They practically all use some variation of the same ultra cheap Realtek ALC, with the bare minimum functional analogue circuitry. Audio on windows is pretty rough no matter what - there's a reason why almost everyone who actually works with audio uses a Mac.

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    This re-seller has some interesting benchmarks. Recommended Workstations for SOLIDWORKS - Puget Systems

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    This re-seller has some interesting benchmarks. Recommended Workstations for SOLIDWORKS - Puget Systems
    I agree with most of the statements on that page, but I will add the following:

    They recommend i7/i9 over xeon - yes, but doing so precludes the use of ECC memory. As I stated above, I've found DDR4 to be generally poor in terms of stability, and increasingly so as you stray further from the base frequency (which many people don't realise is only 2400Mhz for DDR4). Since AMD allow ECC memory on their consumer class cpus, that is what I will use on my next workstation.

    Low end quadro outperforms high end geforce on hybrid rendering modes - yes, rendering modes that impose occluded wireframes over shaded polys tend to fall back to software rendering on consumer class gpus. However, if you're shopping for a low end quadro, you should really look at Radeon Pro / FirePro instead as they offer much better price/performance at the low/mid end vs. quadro. The low end quadro cards (2000 and down) really are painfully slow.

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    I know the computer specs needed for my application.

    I would gladly pay an "expert" to tell which online suppliers are reliable and have the best prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Low end quadro outperforms high end geforce on hybrid rendering modes - yes, rendering modes that impose occluded wireframes over shaded polys tend to fall back to software rendering on consumer class gpus. However, if you're shopping for a low end quadro, you should really look at Radeon Pro / FirePro instead as they offer much better price/performance at the low/mid end vs. quadro. The low end quadro cards (2000 and down) really are painfully slow.
    Gamer video cards are terrible for "shaded with edges" which I use all the time. I agree with ecc memory, I just had a stick of ddr4 fail

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    there's a reason why almost everyone who actually works with audio uses a Mac.
    Or an Onyx2 with Infinite Reality graphics

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    I run an old HP 8740W laptop on the road, and an old HP Z800 desktop at home. I can run UG while doing multi component FEA in SWX in the background without any noticeable loss in performance.

    The 8740W was $250 of ebay, and the Z800 was $500 off of CL.

    It hasn't occured to me to look for something newer. Their more than adequate. All the talk of the latest cpu and videocard etc is a waste of time and money.

    Maxing out memery and running SSD drives isn't a waste of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I know the computer specs needed for my application.

    I would gladly pay an "expert" to tell which online suppliers are reliable and have the best prices.
    Newegg.com

    That'll be $20.

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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    I run an old HP 8740W laptop on the road, and an old HP Z800 desktop at home. I can run UG while doing multi component FEA in SWX in the background without any noticeable loss in performance.

    The 8740W was $250 of ebay, and the Z800 was $500 off of CL.

    It hasn't occured to me to look for something newer. Their more than adequate. All the talk of the latest cpu and videocard etc is a waste of time and money.

    Maxing out memery and running SSD drives isn't a waste of money.
    I disagree.

    Actually, the workstation I'm typing this on right now is a Z800 with dual X5667 3.1Ghz xeons.

    It's generally fine for cad, but it's really really showing it's age for cam. My Ryzen 1800x at home is effectively two times as fast per core, at base clock.

    That can add up to a hell of a lot of time spent waiting for the computer.


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