Convince me not to buy TopSolid.

mhajicek · Aug 5, 2021

I've been using Mastercam since '95, and it's been pretty good to me. I'm still using version X9, because I detest how slow and cumbersome the new interface is in comparison. There are enough improvements by now however, that it would warrant biting the bullet and forcing myself to acclimate. But! I'm going off on my own and have a fledgling business going, and I need to buy my own seat for 3/4/5 axis milling. So I'm gong to have to pony up $20k+ for a new seat and learn a new interface whatever system I go with, which makes it the perfect time to reconsider which system I'm using.

I did some research and asking around, and liked what I heard about TopSolid. It's main weakness from what I've heard seems to be support and community, but I've never leaned heavily on support in the past. I know I wouldn't be able to hire a backup programmer who already knows it, but my wife is likely to be my first backup programmer (she's already been swapping parts and such), and we can get her trained on whichever system we want.

I had a demo, and really liked what I saw; it seems one can get most parts programmed much faster than with Mastercam. Since my main focus is rapid turn-around prototypes and short runs, this would be money in the bank. There also seems to be the level of control I'm used to for dialing things in if you want to take a little more time. It's also much more machine agnostic; it'll handle Swiss, millturn, whatever I might want to get into in the future; things that Mastercam struggles with.

So what am I missing? What's the catch?

Thanks

Volitan · Aug 5, 2021

How much is it?

Larry Dickman · Aug 5, 2021

last I heard, Johnny B was in love with it. Thats a huge bummer right there

mhajicek · Aug 5, 2021

Volitan said:
How much is it?

Almost exactly the same price as Mastercam for the capabilities I need. A little more if I add some nice-to-haves.

Mtndew · Aug 5, 2021

X9 can't hold a candle to what V2022 is. So if you're used to how Mastercam does things, I'd advise sticking with it purely out of familiarity so you're more efficient, especially if the price is the same.

Support is probably the main reason. Forums, etc. How is TopSolid's support and do they have as large of a forum community if you get stuck?

As far as the new interface is concered, I fucking hated it when it changed from X9's style. But after creating my own tabs with damn near everything on 1 tab that I use 95% of the time, it's much better.
As you know, the default stuff sucks in Mastercam.

goooose · Aug 5, 2021

Learning the interface going from X9 to 2022 will take you 2hrs. Basically, everything works the same in 2022 as X9, there are improvements but basically you will be able to make the exact program you want in 2022 right now....not a month from now which is probably how long it will take you to get comfortable with a brand new piece of software.

There are users out there who have customized their 2022 interfaces to mimic the X style. If you hate the new ribbons that much, this is always an option.

mhajicek · Aug 5, 2021

goooose said:
Learning the interface going from X9 to 2022 will take you 2hrs. Basically, everything works the same in 2022 as X9, there are improvements but basically you will be able to make the exact program you want in 2022 right now....not a month from now which is probably how long it will take you to get comfortable with a brand new piece of software.

There are users out there who have customized their 2022 interfaces to mimic the X style. If you hate the new ribbons that much, this is always an option.

Each release since 2017 I've forced myself to do one project in the new version. Each time it took me ten times as long as it should have, and was a very painful and difficult process. Maybe I'm just the old dog that can't learn new tricks, but for everything I found that was better, I found ten things that were so much worse it's like they were trying to make it as slow and difficult as possible. And despite getting rid of everything that was lean and fast about the old versions, they still have legacy problems that are multiple decades old.

goooose · Aug 5, 2021

mhajicek said:
I found ten things that were so much worse it's like they were trying to make it as slow and difficult as possible. And despite getting rid of everything that was lean and fast about the old versions, they still have legacy problems that are multiple decades old.

examples....

Volitan · Aug 5, 2021

mhajicek said:
Almost exactly the same price as Mastercam for the capabilities I need. A little more if I add some nice-to-haves.

Do they charge a lot for maintenance/support?

It sounds like you want to be done with Mastercam for whatever reason, that's a message board holy war I'm not getting involved in. I've heard nothing but good things about Esprit, if you're starting with a clean slate don't overlook that one.

I tried to look at Topsolid, it's hard to get an idea of the workflow for something basic, like milling a square and drilling/tapping a hole. The only things I found were milling impellers and stuff like that. Everybody shows that off in their software. Billet impeller making must be a huge industry lol.

Rstewart · Aug 5, 2021

Matt

If you're planning on branching out to swiss or other smaller mill-turn then I would say TS all the way (from what I hear anyways). You know MC better than 90% of the others around. You just need to hop on the newest version to get more fluid with it (if your just looking at 5 axis milling). Will you have decent support with TS when you get stuck with a problem?

empower · Aug 5, 2021

any reason you're not looking at NX?

mhajicek · Aug 5, 2021

Rstewart said:
Will you have decent support with TS when you get stuck with a problem?

There is a TopSolid users forum, and I've already been contacted by a couple forum members offering help when I need it.

empwoer said:
any reason you're not looking at NX?

From what I've read about it, NX can be great for dialing in a complicated production process, but if you just want to bang something out fast it's not the right tool.

empower · Aug 5, 2021

mhajicek said:
There is a TopSolid users forum, and I've already been contacted by a couple forum members offering help when I need it.

From what I've read about it, NX can be great for dialing in a complicated production process, but if you just want to bang something out fast it's not the right tool.

out the box, ya. but with well set up templates its not bad at all

Macturn · Aug 7, 2021

TopSolid looks like a very capable package, the inbuilt PLM could be very useful too.

Would love to hear back from the OP about his journey with TS if he ends up going ahead with it.

Mud · Aug 7, 2021

empwoer said:
out the box, ya. but with well set up templates its not bad at all

Are sample templates for popular usages available anywhere or does everything need to be created from scratch? I hear about setting up templates frequently, but never what the process is. From here, it sounds like building your own post processor from scratch.

munruh · Aug 7, 2021

Have you checked out Fusion 360 at all? I'm serious

mhajicek · Aug 7, 2021

munruh said:
Have you checked out Fusion 360 at all? I'm serious

Using cloud based software would violate my nondisclosure agreements. Plus I don't want software that holds my data hostage and forces me to use the latest, unproven version.

Emma99 · Aug 12, 2021

Macturn said:
TopSolid looks like a very capable package, the inbuilt PLM could be very useful too.

Would love to hear back from the OP about his journey with TS if he ends up going ahead with it.

My re-name for Mastercam is Mastercan't. There are so many things Mastercam fails at, but does some things really, really well. I have used MC for almost 20-years. I just got thru reviewing TopSolid's latest release and my thoughts are...

Mastercam imports solids and fixtures really easily, drag in wire-frame in almost any config, drop it onto a layer on any WCS, and bang you got it all. Their Viewtabs are a must to quickly know what machine axis you are viewing and executing. Their 5x posts need experienced help getting them dialed in. Their simulation software is atrocious.

Topsolid is really slick, fantastic full kinematic simulation to prevent all crashes, there is a huge learning curve. Importing and setting up a new file is very challenging for first time users, even getting to know the icons and use takes time. Wireframe and custom tool geometry is also challenging. I have computer that can run Mastercam but chokes out in TS, its very resource intensive. That aside, there are some really cool features, and just like Mastercam they all come with a pricetag... Want a custom post, extra, need a custom kinematic set-up to your exact machine specs, extra, but just as MC the maintenance is expensive, but without it you are left without support on challenging parts.

empower · Aug 12, 2021

Mud said:
Are sample templates for popular usages available anywhere or does everything need to be created from scratch? I hear about setting up templates frequently, but never what the process is. From here, it sounds like building your own post processor from scratch.

that will depend on your VAR. they all have/create their own templates, which can of course be tailored even more to individual liking

SD&amp;M · Aug 17, 2021

Emma99 said:
Topsolid is really slick, fantastic full kinematic simulation to prevent all crashes, there is a huge learning curve. Importing and setting up a new file is very challenging for first time users, even getting to know the icons and use takes time. Wireframe and custom tool geometry is also challenging. I have computer that can run Mastercam but chokes out in TS, its very resource intensive. That aside, there are some really cool features, and just like Mastercam they all come with a pricetag... Want a custom post, extra, need a custom kinematic set-up to your exact machine specs, extra, but just as MC the maintenance is expensive, but without it you are left without support on challenging parts.

Hi Emma99:

I'll shoot you my contact info via PM here in a minute. I'm a long-time TS user here, and generally a "fan" of the program (with the occasional gripe, too). I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on TS so far.

If there are particular issues you're having I will try my best to help....don't be shy.

There is also a users group on Slack that I find helpful (send me a PM and I'll generate a link to join this). The "official" TS forum doesn't really have enough traffic to be useful, unfortunately. The French-language forum gets heavy use, however-not that most US folks will care.

Cheers, Brian

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