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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamm View Post
    That isn't correct. It supports other file formats. STL is probably the worst format to use for machining precise shapes, as it is all a pile of triangles. I wonder how many of your problems are stemming from using that format.
    No, not for the machining. Your tool models, and machine simulation models all must be in STL's. This means chucks, jaws, toolholders etc. And STL's as you just said really suck to work with. And the software is awful at loading them once you start getting too many triangles (read less than 500kb of file and it starts to choke and I'm using an M.2 SSD, Threadripper processor, 64GB of ram and a Quadro P4000)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    Fairly typical "wah my new cam system doesn't work the same way as my old one and I can't be bothered to learn it wah" post.

    I am not an esprit user but your entire post is OBVIOUS bullshit. Why come here and post that nonsense?
    How do you figure that? I bought a full seat of Mill-Turn 5-axis last month. I took their training, I have worked with their support. I am still working with their support. It straight up does not do what I have posted. If you want proof I'm happy to show you the emails where I've asked support these questions and they confirmed everything I posted here.

    There's things that are great as it works much more like fusion with feature based machining and the recognition is pretty good. but it gives you much more control vs fusion which is awesome. Doesn't remove a bunch of the caveats of the software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    I realize this is an old post, but if you google search for esprit this comes up.

    Esprit is leagues behind Mastercam in a lot of ways. Even from X7.

    Esprit cannot do HEM (profitmilling in esprit vs dynamic milling in mastercam) for anything other than a pocketing operation. Fusion 360 does this for a tiny, tiny fraction of the cost. It wont even remotely touch it for rotary axis interpolation while doing HEM.

    Esprit requires really finicky custom tools. And will not support anything fancy like Sandvik's prime turning. Nothing for 3D tools at all.

    Esprit requires everything to be STL files, which are horrific to work with and really slow loading.

    The simulation is horrible to set up if you have a B-axis. It is so finicky and not very accurate and supports solution to tools not ending up where they should be is just to fudge the numbers to get it "close".

    Esprit v2021 still works like the original version from 1997ish. It is still 32 bit, it still lacks any kind of hardware acceleration. Simulating is very slow even with an extremely good computer.

    Esprit TNG still does not support multi-channel machines as of April 2021. Some of the above may be fixed but I cannot touch it because I have a multi-channel machine.

    I will say that the feature system is pretty handy, but it definitely seems to lack the control the wireframe gives. It is very finicky to get right until you're extremely comfortable with what it wants.

    I have around 30 more days before I can ask for a refund and I'm learning towards it.
    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    How do you figure that? I bought a full seat of Mill-Turn 5-axis last month. I took their training, I have worked with their support. I am still working with their support. It straight up does not do what I have posted. If you want proof I'm happy to show you the emails where I've asked support these questions and they confirmed everything I posted here.

    There's things that are great as it works much more like fusion with feature based machining and the recognition is pretty good. but it gives you much more control vs fusion which is awesome. Doesn't remove a bunch of the caveats of the software.
    I've never read a more uneducated post about Esprit than this. You've had the software for a month and are trying to come across as an expert, that's funny. Saying Esprit works like Fusion is showing how completely clueless you are about this software you claim to have bought. In fact, if that's the comparison you make I really doubt you even have Esprit.

    Esprit requires STL? Maybe for machine simulation and thats pretty standard across the board. Yes, Mastercam uses STLs for machine sim too.

    ...I could pick apart every point you've made but I think your post is more of a troll or a way to try and bash Esprit so I'm not going to bother. Seems you only came here because this was a search result in google and you want your negative comments to be associated with those results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    I've never read a more uneducated post about Esprit than this. You've had the software for a month and are trying to come across as an expert, that's funny. Saying Esprit works like Fusion is showing how completely clueless you are about this software you claim to have bought. In fact, if that's the comparison you make I really doubt you even have Esprit.

    Esprit requires STL? Maybe for machine simulation and thats pretty standard across the board. Yes, Mastercam uses STLs for machine sim too.

    ...I could pick apart every point you've made but I think your post is more of a troll or a way to try and bash Esprit so I'm not going to bother. Seems you only came here because this was a search result in google and you want your negative comments to be associated with those results.



    Na man, please if you can help that would be awesome. Their support just tells me it cannot be done.



    I'll go point by point here.

    Esprit cannot do HEM (profitmilling in esprit vs dynamic milling in mastercam) for anything other than a pocketing operation. Fusion 360 does this for a tiny, tiny fraction of the cost. It wont even remotely touch it for rotary axis interpolation while doing HEM.

    Just yesterday I asked about profit milling out a pocket with C-Axis interpolation.

    Answer I was given:
    If you want to rotate the C-Axis, you will want to use a Wrap Pocketing operation; however, this will not give you an option for ProfitMilling.

    (Image of what I am getting when trying this in esprit: Esprit 2021
    (Image of what I want in mastercam: Mastercam 2018

    Esprit requires really finicky custom tools. And will not support anything fancy like Sandvik's prime turning. Nothing for 3D tools at all.

    You must use wireframe geometry saved in an ECT file that will be "revolved" into 3D. I cannot find any way to do this just using the simulation solid from the tool manufacturer without manipulation.

    I asked support and was given an outdated PDF of drawing the wireframe geometry of the tool then told to use the tool manager to add the body of the tool.
    Which also brings up that lathe inserts must be created with the tools menu and they don't get given the correct inclination angle so they look funny in the holder. Not that important but it's not "right"


    Esprit requires everything to be STL files, which are horrific to work with and really slow loading.

    Yes, I meant the machine simulation stuff Jaws, Chucks, Toolholders. Starting in 2021ish mastercam now uses STP files which are way better, but even for STL's it uses hardware acceleration so it doesn't take forever to load with a good computer. Esprit chokes with an STL that is relatively small and forced me to really simplify the geometry of things. And if it gets to large the simulation just totally crashes and I end up with a blank background. They don't know why and are looking into it.

    The simulation is horrible to set up if you have a B-axis. It is so finicky and not very accurate and supports solution to tools not ending up where they should be is just to fudge the numbers to get it "close".

    I can get some to work, but then randomly an STL will just end up in the wrong place on the spindle. I contacted support and they looked at it and confirmed my datum is in the right place.

    I got told this:

    Tool Model Setting can be a bit squarely at times. When it does stuff like this I just guess and check to get the holder in the correct spot. Holder location does not effect posted code, it only make collision detection more accurate.
    The first thing I did was zeroed out all the shifts in the tool then changed the values little by little till the tool was in the correct spot. Here is an updated file.

    Tool collision detection is the entire point. If it's not accurate it's not useful. Also its way off, like it was embedded into the spindle several inches off center

    Esprit v2021 still works like the original version from 1997ish. It is still 32 bit, it still lacks any kind of hardware acceleration. Simulating is very slow even with an extremely good computer.

    I'm running this for hardware:
    Threadripper 2950X
    64 GB of DDR4
    Samsung 970 Pro 1tb M.2 SSD
    Quadro P4000

    There is nothing for hardware acceleration. The graphics are terrible, the interface is hilariously low DPI
    Just take a look at the images from my first point the model quality in mastercam vs esprit is night and day. And I am using an outdated version of mastercam and the latest version from esprit.

    Esprit TNG still does not support multi-channel machines as of April 2021. Some of the above may be fixed but I cannot touch it because I have a multi-channel machine.

    Not sure how you will pick this one apart. It just doesn't.

    I did manage to get them to unlock it for my license but they just warned it it's not finished and does not work. Even in my machine center I have this warning:

    Notes

    *** The TNG Multichannel solution is still under active development and there may be functionality missing please carefully review all code ****

    This also reminded me of the threading.

    Threading is a mess. You literally have to draw a custom insert for every different thread form if you want it to simulate correctly (important if I want to use an endmill to "higbee" the thread.)

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    My company first started using Esprit. It was okay but insanely expensive and if you wanted any support or updates you had to keep paying a maintenance contract. I found programing very time consuming. The UI is really outdated, simulation is lacking, and working with models is a pain. I made the switch to HSM works at the time (2012 ish) and now to Fusion 360. I do a ton of 3+2 machining and Fusion really gets the job done and for the cost its a no brainer. Its constantly improved, updated, and new features are added. There's now support for on machine inspection using the probe as part of a manufacturing extension that comes with a few advanced tools, but even then the cost is well worth it. I'm sure Esprit has better 5ax stuff at the moment but honestly the amount of time it takes to setup and get going I would have already drawn/programed the part. Going from Print to CAD/CAM is just so effortless and quick. Its also very well documented and you can find videos on just about anything. The only thing I wish it supported was EDM but I can live without that.

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    Esprit cannot do HEM (profitmilling in esprit vs dynamic milling in mastercam) for anything other than a pocketing operation. Fusion 360 does this for a tiny, tiny fraction of the cost. It wont even remotely touch it for rotary axis interpolation while doing HEM.

    Multi Axis profit milling...
    https://youtu.be/jtgKtVsakhU

    Esprit requires really finicky custom tools. And will not support anything fancy like Sandvik's prime turning. Nothing for 3D tools at all.

    Import using Machining Cloud
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsK4p0kIb0w

    won't support anything fancy????
    multitasking-sync-multichannel.jpg

    Esprit requires everything to be STL files, which are horrific to work with and really slow loading.

    Yes, I meant the machine simulation stuff Jaws, Chucks, Toolholders. Starting in 2021ish mastercam now uses STP files which are way better, but even for STL's it uses hardware acceleration so it doesn't take forever to load with a good computer. Esprit chokes with an STL that is relatively small and forced me to really simplify the geometry of things. And if it gets to large the simulation just totally crashes and I end up with a blank background. They don't know why and are looking into it.

    Mastercam does not use STP for machine sim. You can start with any model type you want but it must be converted to STL for machsim to use. You are doing something wrong or your model files are bad.

    The simulation is horrible to set up if you have a B-axis. It is so finicky and not very accurate and supports solution to tools not ending up where they should be is just to fudge the numbers to get it "close".

    I can get some to work, but then randomly an STL will just end up in the wrong place on the spindle. I contacted support and they looked at it and confirmed my datum is in the right place.

    I got told this:

    Tool Model Setting can be a bit squarely at times. When it does stuff like this I just guess and check to get the holder in the correct spot. Holder location does not effect posted code, it only make collision detection more accurate.
    The first thing I did was zeroed out all the shifts in the tool then changed the values little by little till the tool was in the correct spot. Here is an updated file.

    Tool collision detection is the entire point. If it's not accurate it's not useful. Also its way off, like it was embedded into the spindle several inches off center

    Again, you are doing something wrong or your model files are bad. Are you dealing directly with support in California, if not, do it. I really doubt that reply came from Cali. I also suspect you are jerry rigging your own concoction without knowing what you're doing yet blaming the software.


    Esprit v2021 still works like the original version from 1997ish. It is still 32 bit, it still lacks any kind of hardware acceleration. Simulating is very slow even with an extremely good computer.

    There is nothing for hardware acceleration. The graphics are terrible, the interface is hilariously low DPI
    Just take a look at the images from my first point the model quality in mastercam vs esprit is night and day. And I am using an outdated version of mastercam and the latest version from esprit.

    There have been many upgrades to Esprit 20XX, the same as 1997? wow, get a clue man! Again, I think you need to talk with someone from Cali, you are very misinformed.

    Esprit TNG still does not support multi-channel machines as of April 2021. Some of the above may be fixed but I cannot touch it because I have a multi-channel machine.

    Not sure how you will pick this one apart. It just doesn't.

    Sure it does...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjfcXSss0uY

    This also reminded me of the threading.

    Threading is a mess. You literally have to draw a custom insert for every different thread form if you want it to simulate correctly (important if I want to use an endmill to "higbee" the thread.)

    What are you trying to do? This...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHG1svSDnKs

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Esprit cannot do HEM (profitmilling in esprit vs dynamic milling in mastercam) for anything other than a pocketing operation. Fusion 360 does this for a tiny, tiny fraction of the cost. It wont even remotely touch it for rotary axis interpolation while doing HEM.

    Multi Axis profit milling...
    https://youtu.be/jtgKtVsakhU

    Esprit requires really finicky custom tools. And will not support anything fancy like Sandvik's prime turning. Nothing for 3D tools at all.

    Import using Machining Cloud
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsK4p0kIb0w

    won't support anything fancy????
    multitasking-sync-multichannel.jpg

    Esprit requires everything to be STL files, which are horrific to work with and really slow loading.

    Yes, I meant the machine simulation stuff Jaws, Chucks, Toolholders. Starting in 2021ish mastercam now uses STP files which are way better, but even for STL's it uses hardware acceleration so it doesn't take forever to load with a good computer. Esprit chokes with an STL that is relatively small and forced me to really simplify the geometry of things. And if it gets to large the simulation just totally crashes and I end up with a blank background. They don't know why and are looking into it.

    Mastercam does not use STP for machine sim. You can start with any model type you want but it must be converted to STL for machsim to use. You are doing something wrong or your model files are bad.

    The simulation is horrible to set up if you have a B-axis. It is so finicky and not very accurate and supports solution to tools not ending up where they should be is just to fudge the numbers to get it "close".

    I can get some to work, but then randomly an STL will just end up in the wrong place on the spindle. I contacted support and they looked at it and confirmed my datum is in the right place.

    I got told this:

    Tool Model Setting can be a bit squarely at times. When it does stuff like this I just guess and check to get the holder in the correct spot. Holder location does not effect posted code, it only make collision detection more accurate.
    The first thing I did was zeroed out all the shifts in the tool then changed the values little by little till the tool was in the correct spot. Here is an updated file.

    Tool collision detection is the entire point. If it's not accurate it's not useful. Also its way off, like it was embedded into the spindle several inches off center

    Again, you are doing something wrong or your model files are bad. Are you dealing directly with support in California, if not, do it. I really doubt that reply came from Cali. I also suspect you are jerry rigging your own concoction without knowing what you're doing yet blaming the software.


    Esprit v2021 still works like the original version from 1997ish. It is still 32 bit, it still lacks any kind of hardware acceleration. Simulating is very slow even with an extremely good computer.

    There is nothing for hardware acceleration. The graphics are terrible, the interface is hilariously low DPI
    Just take a look at the images from my first point the model quality in mastercam vs esprit is night and day. And I am using an outdated version of mastercam and the latest version from esprit.

    There have been many upgrades to Esprit 20XX, the same as 1997? wow, get a clue man! Again, I think you need to talk with someone from Cali, you are very misinformed.

    Esprit TNG still does not support multi-channel machines as of April 2021. Some of the above may be fixed but I cannot touch it because I have a multi-channel machine.

    Not sure how you will pick this one apart. It just doesn't.

    Sure it does...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjfcXSss0uY

    This also reminded me of the threading.

    Threading is a mess. You literally have to draw a custom insert for every different thread form if you want it to simulate correctly (important if I want to use an endmill to "higbee" the thread.)

    What are you trying to do? This...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHG1svSDnKs


    1) That's a video on youtube for what appears to be 5 axis channel milling which requires a channel with two walls, what if I don't have two walls like the impeller they are showing? Their support says it wont work for my application. look at my pictures I posted to see what I mean.

    2) I haven't tried the machining cloud add-in. I have been importing directly from manufacturer and converting to STL. I'll give this method a try.

    3) Mastercam does use step files for toolholders. Which is what is causing my simulation to slow right down. The models are directly from the manufacturer. (Schunk, Walter, SECO. Whether from machining cloud export for esprit or direct from their website) The machine itself isn't that much of a bother because once I got the chucks set they don't change but the toolholders do. But it wasn't great that I had to redraw and overly simplify the geometry so it wouldnt take a long time to load. (Again models directly from the kitagawa website)

    4) I am not jerry rigging my own concoction. And support literally gave me that exact answer I copy and pasted that answer directly from the email reply, I don't get to pick who I deal with for support. I make a ticket on the website and they give me who they give me. Not sure how I wouldn't blame the software when its their own support telling me I've done it correctly and this is just the way it is?

    5) I didn't say there weren't upgrades from 1997. It was obviously hyperbole. But the fact of the matter is the base engine is extremely outdated. This isn't what one would expect for $50k in 2021. I opened the copy of 2013 that came with the machine, and when I updated to 2020, and now 2021 they are visually identical. So while some things surely did improve a lot stagnated.

    6) Again a video from youtube doesn't tell the whole story. This is my direct reply from their sales engineer:

    "Although we have formally released TNG for many applications there has been no formal release for multi-channel support. We do have some customers testing it and using it though for the NTSZ model machine with success. There is still some high end functionality that we do have in E2020 both at the post and product level that is still under development in TNG. For your application it is in development. We have people testing it so we are clearly close but today, this month, this quarter, in 2021 NTX programmers should still be using ESPRIT."

    And here's a screenshot telling me the above: capture.jpg

    7) Yes, that is what I am trying to do for the threading, but I don't want to do it with a grooving tool, I want to use an endmill and side mill it.

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    Too many 'ya buts' for me...like you didn't even watch the videos I linked. They use an endmill to do the higbee. You've obviously already made up your mind on Esprit. Contact your reseller they are the one getting the sales commission here, not me.

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    Legacy Esprit is looong in the tooth, and way overdue to get completely replaced.

    That said, I have tried everything under the sun, and (sometimes to my dismay) the legacy Esprit product continues to be the most solid and predictable tool for programming multi channel or complex turning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Too many 'ya buts' for me...like you didn't even watch the videos I linked. They use an endmill to do the higbee. You've obviously already made up your mind on Esprit. Contact your reseller they are the one getting the sales commission here, not me.
    What do you mean "ya, buts" you're literally telling "us" it does these things. But it doesn't. You're all over this forum praising the software but clearly must have a very simple application which it excels at.

    Your video for the higbee linked to some third party resellers add-in. Not a built in function.

    Esprit natively only supports this method: https://ew.dptechnology.com/ew/Bulle...350A261D5F0335

    If there's another way without me having to deal with an outdated and likely unsupported add-in that's made by a reseller that's shown in a youtube video from 2012 I'd love to see it.

    I haven't "made up my mind" about anything. I'm looking for real answers. And this is a post about "Esprit User Thoughts" I am a user. And these are my thoughts. You're just upset that you are being questioned on your infinite praise of the software the supposed functions you say it supports when you clearly don't actually know. I.E. Multi-Channel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Legacy Esprit is looong in the tooth, and way overdue to get completely replaced.

    That said, I have tried everything under the sun, and (sometimes to my dismay) the legacy Esprit product continues to be the most solid and predictable tool for programming multi channel or complex turning.
    Are you doing multi-channel B-Axis programming? I'd love to know if my application problem is a "me" problem or if support is correct and it genuinely doesn't support these things. I have had the same issues with Mastercam support telling me it can't do things when it actually could and it was just a gamble on what support technician you got and if they knew how to do it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    What do you mean "ya, buts" you're literally telling "us" it does these things. But it doesn't. You're all over this forum praising the software but clearly must have a very simple application which it excels at.

    Your video for the higbee linked to some third party resellers add-in. Not a built in function.

    Esprit natively only supports this method: https://ew.dptechnology.com/ew/Bulle...350A261D5F0335

    If there's another way without me having to deal with an outdated and likely unsupported add-in that's made by a reseller that's shown in a youtube video from 2012 I'd love to see it.

    I haven't "made up my mind" about anything. I'm looking for real answers. And this is a post about "Esprit User Thoughts" I am a user. And these are my thoughts. You're just upset that you are being questioned on your infinite praise of the software the supposed functions you say it supports when you clearly don't actually know. I.E. Multi-Channel.
    I can see why the resellers have stopped replying to you. They prob would rather lose the sale than have to deal with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    I can see why the resellers have stopped replying to you. They prob would rather lose the sale than have to deal with you.
    Where did you get they aren't replying to me? And I'm not working with any reseller. I bought direct from Esprit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    Are you doing multi-channel B-Axis programming? I'd love to know if my application problem is a "me" problem or if support is correct and it genuinely doesn't support these things. I have had the same issues with Mastercam support telling me it can't do things when it actually could and it was just a gamble on what support technician you got and if they knew how to do it or not.
    Yes, I have done a fair amount of NT2000 programming in Esprit, and a metric ton of mill programming in Esprit.

    Some of your issues are valid, but I think a lot of it is training. I also think that you have to make concessions with every software. Each one has strengths and weaknesses.

    I am a very happy hyperMILL user (for five axis milling), but there are tools in Esprit that I miss almost every day. Sure, Fusion has great roughing, but the turning and simulation are garbage. CAMWorks has amazing CAD integration, but the lack of control is infuriating. The list goes on... No software is going to be the best at everything - just pick the best tool for the job at hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by boosted View Post
    Yes, I have done a fair amount of NT2000 programming in Esprit, and a metric ton of mill programming in Esprit.

    Some of your issues are valid, but I think a lot of it is training. I also think that you have to make concessions with every software. Each one has strengths and weaknesses.

    I am a very happy hyperMILL user (for five axis milling), but there are tools in Esprit that I miss almost every day. Sure, Fusion has great roughing, but the turning and simulation are garbage. CAMWorks has amazing CAD integration, but the lack of control is infuriating. The list goes on... No software is going to be the best at everything - just pick the best tool for the job at hand.
    Nice, I am using Esprit to program my NTX2000/1500SZ.

    I totally agree with you, no one software is going to do everything perfectly. This is why I have several different CAM systems. Fusions turning is by far it's biggest weakness. There's no custom tools for turning, until very recently all internal tools were still square. I could go on. There's a lot of work to make this usable in my opinion for a production environment. Mastercam is super finicky to get the filtering right to make visually nice 3D surfaces, and working off wireframe can often be cumbersome.

    Never used Hypermill, nor Powermill but I've heard great things about both for their 5 axis capabilities.

    I also agree a lot of my issues are training. I did take the week long esprit course and that gave me a lot to work with. I actually was surprised at how easy it does 3+2 positioning. It's way less work than Mastercam and it's planes. The course didn't touch anything in the Solid Mill-Turn Freeform, Mold, or Mold 5-Axis menus so naturally I have nothing to go on for that and so far the help file hasn't been much to go off of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    Nice, I am using Esprit to program my NTX2000/1500SZ.

    I totally agree with you, no one software is going to do everything perfectly. This is why I have several different CAM systems. Fusions turning is by far it's biggest weakness. There's no custom tools for turning, until very recently all internal tools were still square. I could go on. There's a lot of work to make this usable in my opinion for a production environment. Mastercam is super finicky to get the filtering right to make visually nice 3D surfaces, and working off wireframe can often be cumbersome.

    Never used Hypermill, nor Powermill but I've heard great things about both for their 5 axis capabilities.

    I also agree a lot of my issues are training. I did take the week long esprit course and that gave me a lot to work with. I actually was surprised at how easy it does 3+2 positioning. It's way less work than Mastercam and it's planes. The course didn't touch anything in the Solid Mill-Turn Freeform, Mold, or Mold 5-Axis menus so naturally I have nothing to go on for that and so far the help file hasn't been much to go off of.
    FWIW, I am using FeatureCAM to program our NTX2500 with great results, but I DO know the software like the back of my hand. That said, while FC does have multi channel support I have never used it as all of our machines are single path. It's supposedly good, but it's just not my area of expertise so I can't say for sure. FC is super fast for 3+2 work when working from a solid model. It's simultaneous and surfacing paths can be a bit tricky, but work well if you know what you are doing.

    Notable shortcomings of FC include no trochoidal/adaptive turning support, and weak 5ax roughing (although it's the only cam I've ever done full 5ax in, so I don't have much frame of reference there).

    Also FWIW, I actually wanted to go Esprit for the NTX, but they wouldn't return my phone calls, so fuck them. I already knew FC, AD were responsive and had a post ready to go, so it was an easy decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    FWIW, I am using FeatureCAM to program our NTX2500 with great results, but I DO know the software like the back of my hand. That said, while FC does have multi channel support I have never used it as all of our machines are single path. It's supposedly good, but it's just not my area of expertise so I can't say for sure. FC is super fast for 3+2 work when working from a solid model. It's simultaneous and surfacing paths can be a bit tricky, but work well if you know what you are doing.

    Notable shortcomings of FC include no trochoidal/adaptive turning support, and weak 5ax roughing (although it's the only cam I've ever done full 5ax in, so I don't have much frame of reference there).

    Also FWIW, I actually wanted to go Esprit for the NTX, but they wouldn't return my phone calls, so fuck them. I already knew FC, AD were responsive and had a post ready to go, so it was an easy decision.
    Thanks for the feedback. I actually have access to featurecam ultimate 2021 but have never touched it. Did you buy your post or modify one of the base autodesk ones?

    I will say I have had little issues with responsiveness on the sales side from D.P. Technology. I have generally good things to say about the support side of D.P. Tech as well. Hard to say if this will improve or decline with hexagon at the helm now though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I actually have access to featurecam ultimate 2021 but have never touched it. Did you buy your post or modify one of the base autodesk ones?

    I will say I have had little issues with responsiveness on the sales side from D.P. Technology. I have generally good things to say about the support side of D.P. Tech as well. Hard to say if this will improve or decline with hexagon at the helm now though.
    Step 1: Throw away Esprit and buy Mastercam
    Step 2: Stop using MachSim and buy Vericut
    Step 2.5: Buy a post-processor from Postability
    Step 3: Learn how to use them
    Step 4: Pay off your $85,000 software loan
    Step 5: Profit

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregormarwick View Post
    FWIW, I am using FeatureCAM to program our NTX2500 with great results, but I DO know the software like the back of my hand. That said, while FC does have multi channel support I have never used it as all of our machines are single path. It's supposedly good, but it's just not my area of expertise so I can't say for sure.
    Just to add on here: Featurecam multi-channel programming is very good, just like the rest of it is. The one quirk is that the sync points can be downright buggy, and I often have to play around with them a lot to get them where I want. That's one area where Esprit shines. Esprit has the best sync management on any cam software I've used.

    Expect to have to modify your posts though, I've never had a multi-channel multi-spindle lathe post work perfectly right out of the box. With featurecam it's easy to modify it yourself, but the support from AD is terrible. With Esprit, AFAIK all of the changes to your post have to go through them, but their support is great. So it's sort of a trade off, although I'd personally rather edit my own posts.

    There's no perfect cam package for everything, but I've had my hand in a lot of cam softwares and overall I'd say Esprit really is the best multi-channel lathe CAM. Yes, it looks old, and yes it can be clunky. (feel free to pm me about your graphics issues btw, I had the same issue with esprit looking downright terrible when I installed it, there are some settings on your graphics card you'll have to play with), but they've put a lot of thought into millturn and multi turret work. There are a lot of user friendly things that they've integrated into the package that make life easy where other cams can make it hard. Ie, hard vs soft syncs, outputting syncs with extra codes or comments, park moves, spindle transfers, bar feed, bar pull, cutoff transfer, part stops, tailstocks and steadyrests, spindle syncing etc.

    The lathework and millturn in a lot of cam packages can feel like an add on, whereas esprit really feels like it's been in the space for a while and it was designed for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escapethewrmhole View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I actually have access to featurecam ultimate 2021 but have never touched it. Did you buy your post or modify one of the base autodesk ones?

    I will say I have had little issues with responsiveness on the sales side from D.P. Technology. I have generally good things to say about the support side of D.P. Tech as well. Hard to say if this will improve or decline with hexagon at the helm now though.
    I bought the post (direct from AD), but it was inexpensive (relatively, given the complexity of the machine - I think it was like £1700). It was functional OOTB except that FC doesn't seem to support posting TCP code in Workpiece Coordinate System, so I had to change a parameter on the machine to use Table Coordinate System, and the post also needed a few very small tweaks to output correct code for TCP and IWP on the subspindle.

    I have done a pretty huge amount of customisation to it though.

    I do have an unmolested FC post for a NT/NTX with lower turret that I acquired from somewhere while I was tweaking mine. I think it came from someone on the FC forum. It's not mine though, so I make no guarantees for it.

    If you want it to play with pm me your email address. I don't have a machine simulation file for a lower turret NTX however, but they are fairly trivial to make if you have a model of your machine, and you don't need one unless you specifically want to do full machine simulations inside FC.


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