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From Fusion 360 to... NX? hyperMILL? What else?

mutiny

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Location
Raleigh
Hi friends,

I honestly believe Fusion 360 may eventually be an excellent product at a very competitive price, and it has served me well for three years now as a CAD tool. However, since I've begun machining my own products, the general instability, feature upheaval, and power ceiling has become a lot more apparent. I'm looking for other options and would sincerely appreciate others' thoughts.

Here's what's important to me:

Integrated CAD and CAM. Either a totally integrated solution (like Fusion 360, NX, etc.) or a plug-in with good integration with SOLIDWORKS (hyperMILL, SolidCAM, etc.) would be fine here. I design, program, and machine all my parts and want to be able to have changes in the original part file reflected automatically in CAM with minimal effort.

Stability. I don't mind (and even enjoy) frequent updates. I'm very much not the kind of person who wants or needs software to work exactly the same now as it did years ago. However, I'm extremely tired of the app crashes and general feature instability that comes with nearly every monthly update to Fusion 360.

Modern tooling and toolpathing. I'm running a Brother Speedio and make heavy use of HSM and 3D surfacing to make the best use of my machine. I'd additionally like to be able to use modern tooling like circle segment/barrel cutters in a 3-axis context. (I expect to make a jump to 5-axis some time next year as well, and want whatever software I select to have excellent support for that too.)

Price. This one's a little more complicated. Due to cash flow constraints, I'd rather pay $7k now for a year's license than $20k for a perpetual license. The seemingly-new-this-year NX subscription model is particularly attractive for this reason. I'm curious if other packages have adopted a similar model but not advertised it well.

NX seems the most promising and I'm having a trial license set up for the month of September both as a test of the software and of the VAR. What other packages would you recommend I look into and why? Ballpark pricing for 3-Axis work would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks.
 
I came from confusion 360 and recently purchased SolidCam and am very happy with it, there is no comparison. All said and done I got SW parts and assemblies which for $900 I can upgrade to standard, 2 axis turning with sub spindle, every 3d mill package they have with 3+2 and it was right around 13.5K
 
Hello.
I think NX is great. I had to go on subscription this year because of compliance. Long story. I don't have their cam but it looks great. My advice is to find a good var. Stay away from Saratech and make sure you get the modules you need and make sure the functionality is written in writing. It could of course be overkill for you but for me I need it for one of the projects. Oh. Watch biz learn videos on YouTube he shows stuff that I don't know how you would be able to do it in other cad.
 
i have very little experience with NX, from what i know, learning curve is ROUGH, but once you master it, extremely powerful software.

we currently use Hypermill, and its absolutely amazing at surfacing, 5 axis paths etc. roughing strategies... lets just say they leave a LOT to desire, but supposedly they're working on that.
 
i have very little experience with NX, from what i know, learning curve is ROUGH, but once you master it, extremely powerful software.

we currently use Hypermill, and its absolutely amazing at surfacing, 5 axis paths etc. roughing strategies... lets just say they leave a LOT to desire, but supposedly they're working on that.

Would you mind elaborating if you have time? Very interesting what is left to be desired.

For instance, I know that just up until the latest release of NX, chamfering either modeled geometry or deburring edges wasn't a first class feature and required messing around with offsets. It was one of those "obvious features" that just didn't exist and took much longer than it has any right to considering machine deburring is something done for almost every part. Very curious to know if there are other "obvious features" missing in hyperMILL.
 
I came from confusion 360 and recently purchased SolidCam and am very happy with it, there is no comparison. All said and done I got SW parts and assemblies which for $900 I can upgrade to standard, 2 axis turning with sub spindle, every 3d mill package they have with 3+2 and it was right around 13.5K

Thanks for the info!
 
Hello.
I think NX is great. I had to go on subscription this year because of compliance. Long story. I don't have their cam but it looks great. My advice is to find a good var. Stay away from Saratech and make sure you get the modules you need and make sure the functionality is written in writing. It could of course be overkill for you but for me I need it for one of the projects. Oh. Watch biz learn videos on YouTube he shows stuff that I don't know how you would be able to do it in other cad.

I'm currently talking to Swoosh Tech and so far have been impressed with the apps engineer I'd primarily be working with. Going to be virtually attending their "NX University" conference next month as well.
 
I'm currently talking to Swoosh Tech and so far have been impressed with the apps engineer I'd primarily be working with. Going to be virtually attending their "NX University" conference next month as well.

Find the software package that you are most comfortable with and fits your needs, with the investment cost you will probably be using it for a long time. Every one learns at a different pace so be prepared for the learning curve. Hypermill comes standard with a CAD package, but you have to upgrade somewhat for solid modeling. You can also buy the modules you need and add others later. They have a support person in Charlotte, and their support is far better than any CAM package I have used.
 
Needing to have CAD/CAM integrated in the same program is tough. Some CAM's (like Esprit) do offer feature associativity with Solidworks and others, but in my experience they rarely play well together for long because of constant service packs, etc...

NX is probably the obvious first choice. I'd consider checking out Top Solid as well. We demo-ed them a couple years ago and I was really impressed. Either of those CAD packages are lightyears ahead of Solidworks.


FWIW, I have two seats of hyperMILL and two seats of Solidworks. I tried to run hyperMILL in Solidworks and absolutely hated it. It's basically the same software, BUT you loose all of the really powerful tools that hyperCAD incorporates that are designed for picking features and prepping models for machining. You also cannot migrate between Solidworks and hyperCAD. Once you start programming in one version of the software, it's stuck there forever. I decided it was better to give up Solidworks feature associativity, in exchange for the more powerful (machining related) CAD tools in native hyperMILL/hyperCAD.
 
FWIW, I have two seats of hyperMILL and two seats of Solidworks. I tried to run hyperMILL in Solidworks and absolutely hated it. It's basically the same software, BUT you loose all of the really powerful tools that hyperCAD incorporates that are designed for picking features and prepping models for machining. You also cannot migrate between Solidworks and hyperCAD. Once you start programming in one version of the software, it's stuck there forever. I decided it was better to give up Solidworks feature associativity, in exchange for the more powerful (machining related) CAD tools in native hyperMILL/hyperCAD.

Very interesting. Didn't realize that you'd be leaving things on the table using hyperMILL inside SW.
 
Long time user of Solidworks and Solidcam. Note that "solidcam university (newer)" and "solidcam professor (older)" have a LOT of videos on it.

At the moment, they are doing free training via goto meeting a couple times a week - that was a pandemic thing, but was generally useful for a long time.

Their tech support is generally quite good (they're heavy goto meeting users) and post edits are quite responsive.

And while solidworks maintence doesn't seem to really get much in the way of new features I care about, new solidcam versions (mostly included in maintence) DO contain improving features.

You don't say if you need 5-axis, mill-turn, etc. - what the stack costs will depend on which things you need.
 
Would you mind elaborating if you have time? Very interesting what is left to be desired.

For instance, I know that just up until the latest release of NX, chamfering either modeled geometry or deburring edges wasn't a first class feature and required messing around with offsets. It was one of those "obvious features" that just didn't exist and took much longer than it has any right to considering machine deburring is something done for almost every part. Very curious to know if there are other "obvious features" missing in hyperMILL.

to be fair, most of this is due to volumill, which hypermill licenses their roughing strategies. so my criticism is towards volumill not hypermill directly.
first off, its quirky as FUCK. there are what seems to be a million different feed speed reducing parameters, and nobody seems to know how they function.
rapid retract NIGHTMARE. every other HSM style path i've used (mastercam, fusion, solidcam) allow you the option to do a reposition move in XY, using feed speed you can define. here? nope, rapid retract to clearance plane then rapid over and down. several options in the strategy will either bury your tool (while cutting conventionally) or force you into aforementioned retract moves.
the software is supposed to keep tool pressure constant, but even doing a spiral in style toolpath, it does a lead in/out move after completing a loop, instead of spiraling in. fucking DUMB.

overlaps when machining a boss top are terrible, leave slivers of material which if cutting steels = kiss goodbye to your endmill. simulation thinks the material is removed, but due to tool and material deflection, its there.

for me to rough a pretty simple part with outside 3d surfaces and inside 3d surfaces, i had to split into 4 different roughing paths. same thing can be done in fusion in 1 toolpath that takes 30 seconds to set up.

needless to say, pretty frustrating.
 
to be fair, most of this is due to volumill, which hypermill licenses their roughing strategies. so my criticism is towards volumill not hypermill directly.
first off, its quirky as FUCK. there are what seems to be a million different feed speed reducing parameters, and nobody seems to know how they function.
rapid retract NIGHTMARE. every other HSM style path i've used (mastercam, fusion, solidcam) allow you the option to do a reposition move in XY, using feed speed you can define. here? nope, rapid retract to clearance plane then rapid over and down. several options in the strategy will either bury your tool (while cutting conventionally) or force you into aforementioned retract moves.
the software is supposed to keep tool pressure constant, but even doing a spiral in style toolpath, it does a lead in/out move after completing a loop, instead of spiraling in. fucking DUMB.

overlaps when machining a boss top are terrible, leave slivers of material which if cutting steels = kiss goodbye to your endmill. simulation thinks the material is removed, but due to tool and material deflection, its there.

for me to rough a pretty simple part with outside 3d surfaces and inside 3d surfaces, i had to split into 4 different roughing paths. same thing can be done in fusion in 1 toolpath that takes 30 seconds to set up.

needless to say, pretty frustrating.

Really appreciate you sharing your experience in this. Is this the same as the MAXX Roughing or whatever? Or is that perhaps a new system they've built in house? Seems pretty silly if they're just rebranding a licensed engine.

Edit: After a brief bit of research, it does seem like the MAXX stuff is just Volumill. Disappointing that it's so janky and might be the nail on the coffin for hyperMILL for me, since HSM roughing is the start of every one of my programs.
 
to be fair, most of this is due to volumill, which hypermill licenses their roughing strategies.

Agreed that volumill in hyperMILL is extremely quirky and not very good. Sometimes I really miss profit milling from Esprit.

Are you using Optimised Rouging (hyperMIILL's native HSM strategy)? I use it almost exclusively in hard metals. They also have been making big improvements with optimised roughing over the last couple years.
 
Agreed that volumill in hyperMILL is extremely quirky and not very good. Sometimes I really miss profit milling from Esprit.

Are you using Optimised Rouging (hyperMIILL's native HSM strategy)? I use it almost exclusively in hard metals. They also have been making big improvements with optimised roughing over the last couple years.

i have, it has its own issues, biggest one, not having step up option.
for the time being i'm considering roughing in fusion and finishing in hypermill, thats how much easier/more efficient it is to do it in fusion...
 
for the time being i'm considering roughing in fusion and finishing in hypermill, thats how much easier/more efficient it is to do it in fusion...

LOL. Yeah, like I said, I miss Esprit's roughing a lot. You shouldn't have to come up with crappy workarounds like using complete finishing instead of roughing when you are trying to get efficient toolpath.

I wish the OpenMind folks would pay attention to this stuff instead of dumping all their resources into controlling Hermles over a VPN. They are so worried about future stuff that they skipped some of the basics...

For the OP though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I use volumill roughing on every single part. I have it setup with formulas, and it takes about 4 clicks. It's not very efficient roughing, but it works just fine. And for us rouging is typically less than 10% of cycle time, so it's not the end of the world if it leaves some cycle time on the table. We make it back up with increased throughput and ease of use.
 
Plus one for NX from me. Have used it for years in mold and die for machining and design. Can't be beat. It has great roughing and surface finishing operations. Once you get past the basics you will find that you can do all sorts of crazy stuff with a little bit of lateral thinking.

Now using it for millturn and the turning module has sooo much power.

Have used mastercam, delcam, pro e and machining stategist in the past, won't go back willingly.

Siemens are puttting in a lot of effort to create good training resources that will get you on your way.
 
Long time user of Solidworks and Solidcam. Note that "solidcam university (newer)" and "solidcam professor (older)" have a LOT of videos on it.

At the moment, they are doing free training via goto meeting a couple times a week - that was a pandemic thing, but was generally useful for a long time.

Their tech support is generally quite good (they're heavy goto meeting users) and post edits are quite responsive.

And while solidworks maintence doesn't seem to really get much in the way of new features I care about, new solidcam versions (mostly included in maintence) DO contain improving features.

You don't say if you need 5-axis, mill-turn, etc. - what the stack costs will depend on which things you need.


Their youtube video library is extensive and very useful. Being it's a professional product when you search for something about it you don't get a million hits on 3d printing and how to program your desktop turd.

Every time except once when I called I got through to someone in tech support and the one time I left a message I got a call back in 10ish minutes. I wasn't planning on doing the whole maintenance thing but but their tech support changed my mind.
 
Would you mind elaborating if you have time? Very interesting what is left to be desired.

For instance, I know that just up until the latest release of NX, chamfering either modeled geometry or deburring edges wasn't a first class feature and required messing around with offsets. It was one of those "obvious features" that just didn't exist and took much longer than it has any right to considering machine deburring is something done for almost every part. Very curious to know if there are other "obvious features" missing in hyperMILL.

A much needed operation, there is now chamfering of sharp edges which takes in account walls and various area where the cut leaves the edge. I haven't used it yet but the Siemens video looked very good and demonstrated various scenarios when chamfering all sorts of situations.

By the way, IMO the learning curve is not steeper than any other upper tier software, including some mid tier such as mastercam. I would say the learning curve at our site is little longer for MC than NX and in the end NX is more powerful. As of this post we are starting initial phases for eval to switch our MC programmers to NX. The MC tax is just too high; snafus and bugs are costing us too much time. I think MC is a good product but as with any CAM software is has its limitations. As it turns out we are tasking it with too much and end up dealing with extra time on the back end where as NX has zero problems those areas. We'll most likely keep MC in certain areas of our workflow but the big, complicated project will most likely be done in NX along side all the design work which is all currently done in NX.
 








 
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