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    Default Fusion eliminates tiers

    So instead of raising the price they removed all tiers standard/ultimate and one product for $495/year

    ANNOUNCEMENT - Fusion 36 tier consolidation, what does it mean? - Autodesk Community

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    Sounds reasonable until it's not (they change their mind).

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    I think it's a good move, those who are already paying $300 can continue to pay that amount as long as automatic renewal is on. To get all the features for that good low price is genius. They must have all the other cad/cam makers nervous. Fusion is becoming more powerful with each update. This will draw the attention of others that have never used Fusion to take a look. 5 axis programming for under $500! Where else can you get that? I think it's a great move.
    Quote Originally Posted by csharp View Post
    So instead of raising the price they removed all tiers standard/ultimate and one product for $495/year

    ANNOUNCEMENT - Fusion 36 tier consolidation, what does it mean? - Autodesk Community
    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

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    Fusion360 users, please keep your arms inside the at all times and enjoy the ride!

    What we all knew was coming is really just getting started. When these price increases start stacking year over year....

    ...could you imagine if Mastercam or Solidworks increased their price by 65% in one year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Fusion360 users, please keep your arms inside the at all times and enjoy the ride!

    What we all knew was coming is really just getting started.... increased their price by 65% in one year?

    Then, wait until they decide that ... Well, tiers weren't such a bad idea, but since 'been there-done that, let's separate CAD from CAM.
    Or say eliminate a plugin here or there for the sake of "continuous improvement" or "focusing on other areas" of development.

    Just ask the Inventor users what they've lost over the last 10 or so years!

    I love this section of the announcement:

    As a sign of our appreciation, you’ll notice current subscribers (who sign up prior to October 7) will be taken care of.
    Read: We won't be screwing with you ( Yet ) as we are too busy screwing the un-initiated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeymourDumore View Post
    Read: We won't be screwing with you ( Yet ) as we are too busy screwing the un-initiated.
    Who gives a shit? At $500 a month, they can raise the price 10% per year and in a decade, they'll still be fraction of what SW wants to charge for *maintenance*.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Who gives a shit? At $500 a month, they can raise the price 10% per year and in a decade, they'll still be fraction of what SW wants to charge for *maintenance*.

    Well, wait until Fusion becomes as capable as SW or IV and see if it's still $500 + 10% aggregate....

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Who gives a shit? At $500 a month, they can raise the price 10% per year and in a decade, they'll still be fraction of what SW wants to charge for *maintenance*.

    Assuming you meant $500 a year, but with this price increase of 65%, why do you think they would only go with 10% per year going forward?


    And just an FYI, SW standard maintenance is $1295/yr. Your scenario of increases of 10% for 10 years, starting at $500 comes out to $1180/yr. Less than SW, but I wouldn't call it a fraction of SW.

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    Fusion is shit anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkoenig View Post
    Who gives a shit? At $500 a month, they can raise the price ...
    As it has been said once:

    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Fusion360 users, please keep your arms inside at all times, and enjoy the ride!

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    Assuming you meant $500 a year, but with this price increase of 65%, why do you think they would only go with 10% per year going forward?


    And just an FYI, SW standard maintenance is $1295/yr. Your scenario of increases of 10% for 10 years, starting at $500 comes out to $1180/yr. Less than SW, but I wouldn't call it a fraction of SW.
    You keep forgetting to mention the other half of that equation. Ultimate uses get a 67% price decrease.
    One group will pay an extra $295/year and the other gets a $1005/year discount.

    I think it is a great thing. No more confusion as to what you get in each package. $1295 a year for SW standard does not get you all the simulation/FEA, render, 5axis cam etc... I have been using SW for 12years and admit it is much better than fusion on the cad side. So when you do the math make sure you are including the level of SW that is equal and the maintenance for the cam package since SW standard is 2.5axis with no turning.

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    Actually now that I read it completely no current subscriber is getting any price increase. Anyone subscribed before oct 6th will continue to pay what they were and get the added functionality. Ultimate users that paid 1500 are getting a 24month extension at no cost.

    early adopters also remain unchanged.

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    I think what’s not being considered is all the people purchasing Fusion 360. Since it is more obtainable for homeshop Harry and many other lower income companies and people in general. I would wager that there are more people with fusion than there are people with another CAD/CAM package. I think by pricing so low they’ve been able to build up a substantial user base. What Autodesk has done has positioned themselves to be able to compete against the other guys like SW and MasterCam but with the advantage of being cheaper out the gate.

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    That is it. Solidworks might cost $10 000 and they sell a hundred copies.

    Fusion 360 $500 and they sell 10 000 copies. On top of that, as it is free there are a zillion people up to speed on how to use it, so you have new comers coming through.

    It was said in the past solidworks got to where it was, thanks to pirated copies of it that allowed people unable to afford it to learn to use it, then down the track they bought a copy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by csharp View Post
    You keep forgetting to mention the other half of that equation. Ultimate uses get a 67% price decrease.
    One group will pay an extra $295/year and the other gets a $1005/year discount.
    What percentage of Fusion users do you think were paying 1500/yr...1, maybe 2%?


    Quote Originally Posted by RC99 View Post
    That is it. Solidworks might cost $10 000 and they sell a hundred copies.

    Fusion 360 $500 and they sell 10 000 copies. On top of that, as it is free there are a zillion people up to speed on how to use it, so you have new comers coming through.

    It was said in the past solidworks got to where it was, thanks to pirated copies of it that allowed people unable to afford it to learn to use it, then down the track they bought a copy.
    We've all know Autodesks intention from the get go. This strategy doesn't really hold up though...well first off I think you would really be surprised at the number of SolidWorks seats compared to Fusion, Fusion is definitely not at a 100x user base size, I would wager that Fusion is yet to reach the same number of users as SolidWorks...but that is another discussion.
    To give you an analogy using cars...the cheapest car you can buy new is a Nissan Versa, roughly 13,000. Not comparing supercars, take some of the most expensive cars costing in the 150,000 range and compare both. Using your Autodesk scenario, the Versa should be the better car. They are selling millions at such a low price! But just like Fusion, this is not the case. Fusion is still a little brother to the big players in the cad cam game. If you're serious about getting shit done and getting it done right, you are not buying fusion at any price and you're sure as shit not buying a Nissan Versa either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    ...well first off I think you would really be surprised at the number of SolidWorks seats compared to Fusion, Fusion is definitely not at a 100x user base size, I would wager that Fusion is yet to reach the same number of users as SolidWorks...but that is another discussion.

    You may be correct on this, however, how many of the current SW users are using a paid-in-full version of SW2018? I suspect that the majority of 2018 users are people working at medium to large size companies.

    My feeling is that a very significant percentage of current SW users are still on cracked versions of SW2013 or older. (and many of those still using a 5+ year old cracked version of MasterCAM as well).

    A good number of the smaller shops I deal with have been using/testing Fusion 360 in parallel with their current CAM system, and quite a few of them say they will be dropping their maintenance contracts on their current software.

    I jumped onto Fusion a few years ago during a special they ran which was $5/mo for 2 years. Now I will be on the $310/yr plan for as long as I remain on "auto-renew" (with 5-axis, probing, etc.). If Autodesk goes back on their word, well... I can always go somewhere else at that point if need be. For now (and probably the foreseeable future though), it's an awful lot of "bang for the buck", IMO.

    PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by precisionmetal View Post
    You may be correct on this, however, how many of the current SW users are using a paid-in-full version of SW2018? I suspect that the majority of 2018 users are people working at medium to large size companies.

    My feeling is that a very significant percentage of current SW users are still on cracked versions of SW2013 or older. (and many of those still using a 5+ year old cracked version of MasterCAM as well).

    A good number of the smaller shops I deal with have been using/testing Fusion 360 in parallel with their current CAM system, and quite a few of them say they will be dropping their maintenance contracts on their current software.

    I jumped onto Fusion a few years ago during a special they ran which was $5/mo for 2 years. Now I will be on the $310/yr plan for as long as I remain on "auto-renew" (with 5-axis, probing, etc.). If Autodesk goes back on their word, well... I can always go somewhere else at that point if need be. For now (and probably the foreseeable future though), it's an awful lot of "bang for the buck", IMO.

    PM
    Speculating on number of installs, pirated installs, version of install is just that...speculation. Without data backing it up its a big pile of shit. Why would you think there is a high use of pirated SW and Mastercam, specifically old versions of them...there are plenty of current releases out there. Sure there are shops using pirated version, I guess it depends on what you quantify as 'significant'.

    The closest I can come to data on installs is a 2017 survey by cnccookbook. CAD market share for F360 they put at 20.2%, SW 20.8%. I can only assume they have surveyed their customers who would be more cam centric so that number could be skewed if surveying a cad centric users base. Regardless, I can pretty much guarantee there are no pirated F360 users. I can also pretty much guarantee that if you are using a pirated version of Solidworks you are not replying to a survey stating that you are. So again, those numbers may skew higher in SW favor if you want to include total users.

    I'll keep coming back to this point though in the F360 conversation, yes it is good for shops just starting out. You get most of the functions you will need to get going and at a reasonable price. If you are at the point where you now have several machines and several employees, doing things efficiently starts to make sense. ie you start buying the best carbide endmills because they save you money in the long run, not the shitty imports because they cost less initally...ie you buy multiple sets of allen keys because wasting time looking for the 1/8 key cost more per year than buying 10 full sets....if your business is at this point, this is when Fusion is no longer for you. When time is money, go get the good stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    What percentage of Fusion users do you think were paying 1500/yr...1, maybe 2%?
    does not matter you stated people were getting a 65% price increase and no one it getting a price increase. All existing users will remain at current price. Existing Ultimate users are getting a 24month free extension.

    No one is getting shafted on this deal. Maybe the next one but not this one

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    Quote Originally Posted by goooose View Post
    If you are at the point where you now have several machines and several employees, doing things efficiently starts to make sense. ie you start buying the best carbide endmills because they save you money in the long run, not the shitty imports because they cost less initally...ie you buy multiple sets of allen keys because wasting time looking for the 1/8 key cost more per year than buying 10 full sets....if your business is at this point, this is when Fusion is no longer for you. When time is money, go get the good stuff.

    I agree efficiency is a key. That is where Fusion comes in, the whole ecosystem is more efficient. I don't have to deactivate/reactivate my SW license everytime i decide to work from home. No more pack and go and broken file references.

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    For the past 3 years I've been hearing the same old song about how Fusion is going down the tubes and AD is about to screw everybody. I'm still waiting for it to happen. Meanwhile, I've been using Fusion to get my work done instead of hiding under the bed waiting for the sky to fall. It works for me and lots of other people. It's exceedingly cost-effective. I'll stop using it when it actually is not cost-effective, rather than stop using because of some hypothetical possibility.

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